The Donte Stallworth Debate (join in)

[Westbrook36]

Well boys, the season is over for the 4 NFC East teams, and while I am happy with what the Eagles were able to accomplish, something just doesn't feel right. That something is the inevitable certainty that the Eagles will not resign Donte Stallworth.

Here is the deal. Stallworth is going to a be a UFA in a year where 2/3 of the teams in the league will have more than 20 million to spend on FAs in a weak WR FA class. Someone is going to overpay for his services. It will almost certainly not be the Eagles.

Seattle gave Branch 13 million. Stallworth will fetch at least that much. Reggie Brown got 9 million. The Eagles reportedly offered Stall that much. He declined. He wants to be an Eagle. He loves the city, organization, coaches, etc. I'm sure he also loves money.

From the Eagles standpoint, they don't feel they need to overpay for a WR. They have Brown, Baskett, Avant, and Lewis. I'm sure they'd like to save the Dante money and spend it to extend LJ Smith and sign perhaps one impact defensive FA.

The only problem is, injuries and all, Stallworth is a true number 1 WR. Brown can play like a number 1 in stretches, but he is better suited to dominate as a 2 WR. Again, Baskett is a better slot WR than being forced to make the leap to the number 2 WR.

From my vantage point, you have to overpay. Stallworth is 26. Brown is 25. Sign Donte, and along with Brown, Baskett, and Avant, you have the best WRs since the early 90s. Every year we have the WR question going into camp. Resign him and you don't have to worry about it for the next 5-6 years.

Unfortunately, I think his injury history and asking price, along with the fact the draft pick will move from a 4 to a 3 will make the Eagles politely pass.

Mistake.

[Henry]

Honestly, Stallworth looks a LOT like Santana Moss to me. A guy who at any time could take any pass and turn it into a game-changing TD. A guy who keeps defensive coordinators up at night.

I think you have to find a way to keep him, especially considering how far under the cap you are and how few players you give big contracts to.

[Pocono]

I believe the draft pick moves from a 4 to a 3 if he is re-signed before he becomes a FA. If this is true if he is re-signed it will be after 3/1. Another factor would be the fact that if they do lose him and he signs for Branch money they would likely receive a comp pick at the end of the 3rd rd in 08. So they would have had him for one year and give up a 4th in 07 only to receive a 3rd in 08. I think this would appeal to Joe Banner. If you look at the games he missed the Eagles O averaged the same amount of yardage as it did the games he played. You also have the hammy problem. I can live with it either way because I like what I've seen from Baskett so far and he should improve in his second year with this O and you also have Avant and Bloom who might bloom.

[Westbrook36]

This is the problem, Henry. We don't have a lot of room under the cap like in previous years. We are actually in the bottom 1/3 of the league in cap room with 12 million.

We have to sign Garcia, Stallworth, any potential FAs, and ink LJ Smith to an extension.

[blitzpackage]

I guess you have to try to keep him. The injuries I guess are becoming more and more part of the game with 'Tana missing a few starts because of a hammy. Hell, Steve Smith missed some time this year with hamstring injuries. If Donte is already in an Eagles uniform and is a true #1 IMO as well, the 'Birds need to come off the hip this time and actually pay their players.

*Woohoo! No more field goal team!*

[Westbrook36]

The Eagles have no problem paying their players, hence all the early extensions. The problem is they assign a dollar number to a position, and don't want to budge past that number, no matter how talented the player is. They already have some money locked up at WR. I'm sure they gave RB the deal thinking he'd be the big bread winner for the next few years and they'd get by with Baskett/Lewis/Avant.

[Henry]

This is the problem, Henry. We don't have a lot of room under the cap like in previous years. We are actually in the bottom 1/3 of the league in cap room with 12 million.

We have to sign Garcia, Stallworth, any potential FAs, and ink LJ Smith to an extension.

Well then I don't kow.

My position is that if you have the luxury of overspending on one or two guys, he'd be one to do it for. However, if overpaying him is going to box you in (*coughcoughHACKcough*) I guess you'd have to let him go. Signing him does have an element of risk, but to me the upside looks pretty huge.

[Westbrook36]

The offense was number 2 in the NFL. Without him, I'd still venture that it would be very good. The defense needs to be fixed.

That being said, I want Stallworth back at any cost.

Dammit, can't Lurie do a bunch of overextended Dan Snyder type contracts for just this year so the cap hit doesn't effect us in 07?!?!

[Big Weirdo]

LJ Smith is as good as gone next year. So is Donte' this year. Spadaro and Company are already setting us up for their departure.

[DCSaints_fan]

Resign him.

Please ?

[Westbrook36]

Who_Del, you are in the segment of whiny Eagles fans that I hate. That being said, I like you.

[Skins4481]

As a Redskins fan, I hope you guys dont sign him. He has the speed and quickness of Moss. The only difference is that Moss has better hands and plays the deep ball better

[Big Weirdo]

Stop putting an underscore in my name.

[jrockster21]

I don't believe Stallworth is a true #1 receiver. He looked good at times, sure, but he's still a complementary player in my opinion.

Comparing him to Santana Moss is lunacy.

[DCSaints_fan]

I believe the draft pick moves from a 4 to a 3 if he is re-signed before he becomes a FA. If this is true if he is re-signed it will be after 3/1. Another factor would be the fact that if they do lose him and he signs for Branch money they would likely receive a comp pick at the end of the 3rd rd in 08. So they would have had him for one year and give up a 4th in 07 only to receive a 3rd in 08. I think this would appeal to Joe Banner. If you look at the games he missed the Eagles O averaged the same amount of yardage as it did the games he played. You also have the hammy problem. I can live with it either way because I like what I've seen from Baskett so far and he should improve in his second year with this O and you also have Avant and Bloom who might bloom.

No one knows the exact wordings of that trade - the only thing that was reported was that the Saints would get a 3rd if the Eagles resign him to long term contract extension. I'm sure Loomis thought of a situation where they resign him after the draft and the Saints would get some type of compensation. (Maybe like a 4th of 5th in 08) And you can't assume you will get a 3rd in 08 should you fail to resign him. Plus even if you do it is a "lost oppotunity" meaning you failed to sign players to make up for him. For example, do you think the Saints would have been happy with a 3rd round pick had they failed to pick up Fujita and Brees this season, given that they lost Darren Howard and LeCharles Bentley? Perhaps that comparison is a little over the top, but you can see where I'm coming from. If they don't resign him it should be because they think he isn't reliable enough to demand #1 WR money or because of his tendency to get injured, but thats something else.

[AKM311]

Stallworth is good and all, but there is a reason why he succeeded this year. One he had a QB that could throw him the ball and second its his contract year. The reason why I would not give him a 13M signing bonus, is because he is not Moss, Smith or any of those. He has blazing speed, but average hands at best. What happens once he gets his money, his injuries and hands go back to normal? Then you just pulled a Redskins move. This is why your team has been successful, by not falling in traps like the Redskins do.

I would take a look at the FA WRs and pick someone from there. Look at the Pats, Caldwell and Gaffney? Come on!!! If McNabb is as good as you Eagles fans say, then another WR should be just as good.

[Henry]

I don't believe Stallworth is a true #1 receiver. He looked good at times, sure, but he's still a complementary player in my opinion.

Comparing him to Santana Moss is lunacy.

38 rec

725 yds

19.1 ypc

5 TDs

Those are Moss-like numbers for an injury-plagued season. And Moss has certainly had his share of injury-plagued seasons.

When healthy, Stallworth is a similar home-run threat.

[jeronimobrat]

The offense was number 2 in the NFL. Without him, I'd still venture that it would be very good. The defense needs to be fixed.

That being said, I want Stallworth back at any cost.

Dammit, can't Lurie do a bunch of overextended Dan Snyder type contracts for just this year so the cap hit doesn't effect us in 07?!?!

I love you enthusiasm, but that is certainly not route that your FO would want to go. Although, I love that an archrival is taken admiration of our owner's willingness to spend.

[blitzpackage]

38 rec

725 yds

19.1 ypc

5 TDs

Those are Moss-like numbers for an injury-plagued season. And Moss has certainly had his share of injury-plagued seasons.

When healthy, Stallworth is a similar home-run threat.

Moss had 55 receptions for 790 yards and six touchdowns. Seems comparable to me as well.

But on second thought, with Reggie Brown and Westbrook catching so many balls, it is interesting to see how much Lurie will value Donte.

[jrockster21]

38 rec

725 yds

19.1 ypc

5 TDs

Those are Moss-like numbers for an injury-plagued season. And Moss has certainly had his share of injury-plagued seasons.

When healthy, Stallworth is a similar home-run threat.

He's a home-run threat, no doubt. But look at Santana's numbers, in an injury-plagued season, with a shoddy QB with an injured shoulder for half the year, and a first time starter the second half of the year:

55 rec

790 yards

14.4 avg

6 TDs

And I'm sure I don't have to tell you how under-utilized he was this season.

Stallworth doesn't run great routes, and has decent hands at best. He does look very good in the Eagles' offense, but hell...Todd Stinkston put up 18.8 ypc a couple years ago in that offense. Its the WCO - made to make WRs look good. It took a WR with average speed and excellent hands, and made him look phenomenal (Jerry Rice).

Again IMO comparing Stallworth to Moss is lunacy....he's a deep threat, but better suited for the #2 spot.

[Pocono]

No one knows the exact wordings of that trade - the only thing that was reported was that the Saints would get a 3rd if the Eagles resign him to long term contract extension. I'm sure Loomis thought of a situation where they resign him after the draft and the Saints would get some type of compensation. (Maybe like a 4th of 5th in 08) And you can't assume you will get a 3rd in 08 should you fail to resign him. Plus even if you do it is a "lost oppotunity" meaning you failed to sign players to make up for him. For example, do you think the Saints would have been happy with a 3rd round pick had they failed to pick up Fujita and Brees this season, given that they lost Darren Howard and LeCharles Bentley? Perhaps that comparison is a little over the top, but you can see where I'm coming from. If they don't resign him it should be because they think he isn't reliable enough to demand #1 WR money or because of his tendency to get injured, but thats something else.

I don't think the NFLPA would allow a trade clause that would inhibit a player's movement once he reaches FA status other than the franchise player and transition player designation which is in the CBA.

I agree that it wouldn't have been a good idea for the Saints last year but the Eagles aren't as needy from a personnel standpoint as the Saints were at that point. The Eagles may feel they can meet their needs with the draft and the players coming back off of IR without dipping into the FA market which will no doubt be the most over paid in NFL history because of the lack of talent available and the huge amount of cap space avalable league wide.

Westy...If it's cap space the Eagles need they likely have about 15M available to them if they guarantee the roster bonuses in the extensions they wrote for Patterson Cole Brown and Herremans or they could sign Stallworth to a normal NFL contract which isn't front loaded and calls for only 1/6th of the signing bonus and minimum salary in the first year...maybe a 2.5M-3M cap hit.

[AKM311]

He's a home-run threat, no doubt. But look at Santana's numbers, in an injury-plagued season, with a shoddy QB with an injured shoulder for half the year, and a first time starter the second half of the year:

55 rec

790 yards

14.4 avg

6 TDs

And I'm sure I don't have to tell you how under-utilized he was this season.

Stallworth doesn't run great routes, and has decent hands at best. He does look very good in the Eagles' offense, but hell...Todd Stinkston put up 18.8 ypc a couple years ago in that offense. Its the WCO - made to make WRs look good. It took a WR with average speed and excellent hands, and made him look phenomenal (Jerry Rice).

Again IMO comparing Stallworth to Moss is lunacy....he's a deep threat, but better suited for the #2 spot.

I agree. Have you seen Stallworth adjust to the ball in the air like Moss does? Have you seen 3 people covering him at once and somehow he scores a TD?

[Henry]

I hate doing this, because I like Moss a lot and I hate the Eagles.

He's a home-run threat, no doubt. But look at Santana's numbers, in an injury-plagued season, with a shoddy QB with an injured shoulder for half the year, and a first time starter the second half of the year:

55 rec

790 yards

14.4 avg

6 TDs

And I'm sure I don't have to tell you how under-utilized he was this season.

Moss has had more than one season with those types of numbers. His numbers the year before he signed with us are also similar. We've been fortunate enough to see his impressive upside, when he's healthy and things are going right with the QB and the offense. But when things aren't perfect he has been known to get 700-800 yards and 5-6 TDs. Just like Stallworth.

Stallworth doesn't run great routes, and has decent hands at best. He does look very good in the Eagles' offense, but hell...Todd Stinkston put up 18.8 ypc a couple years ago in that offense.

Pinkston was opposite TO that one time he put up 18.8 ypc. And that year he only had 1 TD. He was never considered a home-run thread by anyone anywhere.

Its the WCO - made to make WRs look good. It took a WR with average speed and excellent hands, and made him look phenomenal (Jerry Rice).

Not quite sure what to make of this. Stallworth is an ok player because he looks good in the same offense that Jerry Rice looked good in? Um ... does anyone anywhere on planet Earth not think Rice is the greatest WR of all time? Does anyone seriously qualify Rice's accomplishments as the product of a system? I mean ... is that what you are saying? In that case I won't argue with you about Stallworth anymore. No point.

Again IMO comparing Stallworth to Moss is lunacy....he's a deep threat, but better suited for the #2 spot.

That's exactly what people said about Moss when we picked him up.

[pointyfootball]

I'm severely torn on this subject. I love Donte because I think he's an excellent team player (from what I can see) and he really opens things up for the other WRs and TEs by being able to really stretch the defense. Him blowing by the Saints CB for that 75yarder was a thing of beauty and really was the only offensive play the Eagles had for the first 20 minutes or so. I'd love to have him start for us next year. He's young, fits well in this offense and has good chemistry with the team. As to whether or not he's a #1, I could care less - he had two big TD catches in the playoffs which is when it really matters.

In looking at their existing WR corps, Avant and Baskett (had a great catch on 4th &10 play this past Saturday) are not speed-burners and won't challenge safeties deep. Either can be good #3 and #4 receivers (I believe Lewis most likely will be gone, especially if Bloom is able to return kicks). Reggie Brown can get open deep but not like Stallworth. Losing him would change the dynamics of their offense, but if they continue to be more balanced offensively, maybe it won't matter that they don't have Stallworth.

All that being said, I'd also like to see the Eagles upgrade Buckhalter's position and get a RB that can get 30-40 tough yards per game to spell Westbrook and/or be able to come in for him in case of injury. The Eagles really can't afford to spend a lot more money on the offense, it's their defense that needs considerable upgrading. SS, LBs, backup CB & FS.

Torn,

PF

[Henry]

I agree. Have you seen Stallworth adjust to the ball in the air like Moss does? Have you seen 3 people covering him at once and somehow he scores a TD?

Moss adjusts to the ball better than just about anyone in the game. That doesn't mean a guy who doesn't do that isn't a comparable player in any sense.