chomerics Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Thought this needed a thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I zoned out 15 minutes ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Well, he did take full blame for everything that has gone wrong. I didn't expect him to come out and say that at all. I applaud him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Must say I agree with him. It's not time to run away. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Well, he did take full blame for everything that has gone wrong. I didn't expect him to come out and say that at all. I applaud him for that. Who could he blame it on? That's just stating the obvious. I don't see any difference, other then getting in people who agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 chom, we all know basically what your reaction will be regardless of what he says. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Thought this needed a thread Why don't I save everyone the time and trouble. The resident ES libs will declare the speech a failure. The resident ES conservatives will applaud him for his leadership. Mass_Skins_Fan will make a ridiculous post about communism in this country. A newb and/or member with plenty of time on his/her hands will respond, and we're looking at roughly 15 pages. There. We're done. Now close the thread and let's get back to the important topics, like whether or not Wal Mart is in fact sold out of the Nintendo Wii in southern MD. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 There is no other American option than the one he suggested. Political rhetoric aside, we are not going to leave the Iraqi people out to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 There is no other American option than the one he suggested. Political rhetoric aside, we are not going to leave the Iraqi people out to dry. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Why not? Why not leave them out to dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Who could he blame it on? That's just stating the obvious. I don't see any difference, other then getting in people who agree with him. I didn't expect him to take the blame. I figured he he is to stubborn to say "I take the blame." I expected him to say mistakes have been made, blah, blah,blah so we should do this now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Why not? for the exact reason he said. Doing so would make the current violence look like a walk in the park. It would embolden our enemy, and do nothing but strengthen his resolve to finish HIS war.. even if we pretend ours is finished. Islamic terrorism on Americans and other westerners would not stop. Likely would escalate. ever seen a guy who tries to be the "big man" in a fistfight? He may keep his pride by not fighting, but he ends up beaten and bloody more often than not. Guys who walk away after a fight has already begun end up getting punched in the back of the head over and over again. I also have never ever in my entire life seen a guy gain respect by walking away. Maybe on TV..In reality his enemy only views him with more scorn, and more often than not, will increase his attacks. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Shouldn't we wait for Olberman to tell us how bad it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Who could he blame it on? That's just stating the obvious. I don't see any difference, other then getting in people who agree with him. He could blame it on false intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I have to admit that I just don't know what to feel about the war anymore. I voted for Bush, and originally supported our efforts in Iraq. I think removing Sadam was the right thing to do, but now I wonder if we'll ever get this thing right. It seems like every time we think we have got it figured out the situation gets worse. I don't think that our leaders are confident that we can win, but they think we need to stay anyway b/c they don't have a better solution. I know I'm very tired of reading about Americans getting killed there, and how less and less Iraqis actually want us to be there. I have a very bad feeling about sending 20,000 more troops, but I understand the danger of pulling out. Having said all that, if we don't get the situation under some semblance of control real soon, I think I'd be in favor of just pulling all of our troops out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I feel that increase of 20K is not enough. We need more. We need to secure Baghdad, where the bulk of the violence occurs, while simultaneously ensuring that Al Qaeda operatives are not entering Iraq from Syria and Iran. The biggest problem of course is sectarian violence. The second biggest problem is Al Qaeda. Perhaps Anbar Province is indeed where Al Qaeda operatives have holed themselves, but there will always be influx of these people if we do not secure the borders. We need to freeze assets of foreign donors who are aiding people who're creating havoc in Iraq. Perhaps a diplomatic solution is in effect. In other words, bring Syria and Iran to the table and let's have a good talk to decide how to fix Iraq. Let's face it, Iran and Syria will always be Iraq's neighbors. Without bringing them to the table, I don't see how we can go about fixing Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 for the exact reason he said. Doing so would make the current violence look like a walk in the park. It would embolden our enemy, and do nothing but strengthen his resolve to finish HIS war.. even if we pretend ours is finished.Islamic terrorism on Americans and other westerners would not stop. Likely would escalate. ever seen a guy who tries to be the "big man" in a fistfight? He may keep his pride by not fighting, but he ends up beaten and bloody more often than not. Guys who walk away after a fight has already begun end up getting punched in the back of the head over and over again. I also have never ever in my entire life seen a guy gain respect by walking away. Maybe on TV..In reality his enemy only views him with more scorn, and more often than not, will increase his attacks. ~Bang Yet the military people who are in close say in order to fix it, you need to bring in several hundred thousand troops. Hey, if you want to "win the war" then by all means do so, that will mean reconstituting the draft and calling up 500,000 troops. Otherwise, get the hell out, the 20K BS is going to do nothing more then get more of our guys killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I think the President believes what he's saying. I also believe that this admin sees this as their last chance to at least put their fingers in the leaky dam hoping that a solution is figured out. However, I think there are too many Republicans who are on the other side of this, who will very vocal against this action, claiming that the President is using American lives as a buffer for something that isn't likely to work. As far as blame, that bad intell one doesn't work anymore because they ask why no other country was willing to act on the intell except for us. So, either they didn't feel it was strong enough to attack Iraq, or I don't know. The part I agreed with was the "no open ended" American Military in Iraq section. I hope that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallntfox Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Well, he did take full blame for everything that has gone wrong. He must have studied a Joe Gibbs presser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Yet the military people who are in close say in order to fix it, you need to bring in several hundred thousand troops. Hey, if you want to "win the war" then by all means do so, that will mean reconstituting the draft and calling up 500,000 troops. Otherwise, get the hell out, the 20K BS is going to do nothing more then get more of our guys killed. Every general in history wants more men. The thought of going in force is a good one. Overwhelm the enemy. In the long run many more lives are saved by a quicker defeat of the enemy. It's my opinion that the strategy of sitting and waiting for the enemy to strike is the best way to lose. we need to go on the offensive,, not little patrols, all out offensive, flush them out, kill the enemy. Take ground and hold it. Secure it, and then continue on the offensive until victory is secured. Sitting there trying to win by playing defense is not going to cut it. Ducks sit, and look what happens to them. Fighting from garrison always loses, from Masada on down thru history. Anyway, while we're on it, don't you have any thought on what a US pullout would do for our enemy? They are viable, they are real. Do yo think they'll quit, or do you think that they will continue their stated mission of establishing islamic world dominance and spilling as much American blood as possible? The factions we're fighting are not looking to just run out an invader and go on with their lives. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Why don't I save everyone the time and trouble. The resident ES libs will declare the speech a failure. The resident ES conservatives will applaud him for his leadership. Mass_Skins_Fan will make a ridiculous post about communism in this country. A newb and/or member with plenty of time on his/her hands will respond, and we're looking at roughly 15 pages. There. We're done. Now close the thread and let's get back to the important topics, like whether or not Wal Mart is in fact sold out of the Nintendo Wii in southern MD. .... I guess I'm the only one who found this post rather comical :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I have to admit that I just don't know what to feel about the war anymore. I voted for Bush, and originally supported our efforts in Iraq. I think removing Sadam was the right thing to do, but now I wonder if we'll ever get this thing right. It seems like every time we think we have got it figured out the situation gets worse. I don't think that our leaders are confident that we can win, but they think we need to stay anyway b/c they don't have a better solution. I know I'm very tired of reading about Americans getting killed there, and how less and less Iraqis actually want us to be there.I have a very bad feeling about sending 20,000 more troops, but I understand the danger of pulling out. Having said all that, if we don't get the situation under some semblance of control real soon, I think I'd be in favor of just pulling all of our troops out. I think it is worth noting that this struggle is not going to end in 12 months. It is likely that this war on terror will span many years and multiple administrations. For whatever reason this debate has been framed with the political cycle in mind. One thing that we can be certain. Islamic extremists will not be beaten by bombs and guns in the long run. It will be won in the long run by persuanding the minds and hearts of the people in these third world countries in the middle east. But before they can be persuaded the need to be given a chance to be part of the equation. This is what Bush has been trying to do. Place a free democratic society in the middle of chaos. How could anyone could expect a quick and clean victory out of this? It was going to be ugly. EDIT ** It IS going to be ugly. But remember, what is more ugly. Deal with a weak and spread out opposition? Or wait until they are a legitimate threat to our country? 3000 deaths are a lot of loss for us as Americans. But in the history of our country we have lost MUCH more having waited until the bearing point of a conflict. I agree with our President and as an American I agree that we can not cut and run in what is the infancy of a legitimate fight with the mortal enemy of the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm surprised anyone gives a **** anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm surprised anyone gives a **** anymore. My kids are eight, six, and five. Yea, I give a ****. I am more suprised by the fact that you DON'T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Can't believe what I am reading. People are ok with this? The president is moving lone wolf on this. He is acting like a dictator if you believe the wimper coming from the Dems that they didn't know. Guys, you can call me a quack, whatever you want. You guys need to wake the hell up and realize the stuff your seeing on TV is not what is actually going on. It is pure propaganda. We went from weapons of mass destruction, to overthrow the terrible dictator, to Al-queda, to al-queda, to al-queda, to kill the dictator, to one last push. Are we serious here? Did anyone happen to catch the part in his speech about increasing the military size? How about how much danger we are in? We have troops over there in the 5th and 6th tours of duty. They can't get out because they won't let them out. Why are they there? Is it really that important? We have done nothing but kill a lot of people and create massive unrest in that region since we have been there. I'm not even talking about the poisoning of an entire region (including our troops) with radiation for eternity due to our use of Depleted Uranium in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is completely incredible that anyone could back this operation. We need to get our troops out of harms way, stop this illegal war, and retake our country from these fake gov't officials. I know most will laugh at this post, but I just needed to say some of this in not even a coherent way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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