so I just wrote a letter....lol

[Ryman of the North]

I was working part time as a security supervisor at a major office and retail complex downtown last eyar and I had an interesting year to sya the least, it really coloured my view of trhe world and after reading a lot of BS in our local paper about how the Homeless in our city are mistreated I finally snapped and worte a letter to them.

Trip to the loo costs man 287.00?

I am sick and tired of reading about how put upon the homeless are in this city. Your reporters are ignoring one of the most important rules of journalism and that’s to investigate BOTH sides of the story.

What many people including Mr. Worgmoor fail to realize is that TD square is private property, once they are closed it is actually no different than if someone comes into your house uninvited to use the restroom, they do check and make sure that the bathrooms are unoccupied when they close and they do patrol these areas frequently. If people are in the building illegally we don’t care of they are homeless or not , they get trespassed and banned or at the very least warned and removed.

Mr.Worgmoor wasn’t fined for using the restroom he was fined for knowingly disregarding a law and being somewhere he was not supposed to be (he admitted he did not know how long he was in the restroom for but I would bet it was longer than 30 minutes as that’s the length of a patrol), even so, if he would have just left quietly he probably would have just been asked to leave and not arrested (how do I know this? Because I was a Security supervisor at TD last year and I know how much paperwork is involved in an arrest for trespass.) being as shortstaffed as TD has always been I know that we were told not to arrest except as a last resort and I doubt that has changed.

It’s not the responsibility of Downtown businesses to provide restrooms for vagrants, they can walk the 3 or 4 blocks to the mustard seed, frankly if they aren’t working dowtown what business do they have being downtown anyway let alone in a building after its closed?

I once opened a restroom for a couple after hours (we had just closed) I was still a rookie and had not learned the harsh reality of downtown Calgary yet so I waited for them for about 25 minutes, when I finally knocked and asked them to go they sleepily replied that they were ready and left, when I went back and checked the bathroom I found 2 used needles and a huge mess in the restroom. I let one guy use the restroom and he smeared feces on the wall, so don’t try to make it sound as though business people downtown are heartless for not letting non paying customers use the facilities, would YOU want to clean up feces? Are you going to volunteer to come and clean up the mess that these people leave behind because until you do you should stop critiquing those of us who have to when these people make their messes! I know that a coffee shop on 8th ave used to let vagrants come in and use their bathrooms but that all changed when they started leaving behind disgusting messes so that actual paying customers would no longer use the restrooms, so they stopped letting them use the restroom. To me that’s just common sense.

Perhaps you as journalists and average people are unaware of what we and CPS deal with downtown on a daily basis.

In my year and a half at TD I saw or dealt with,

-a panhandler who was not just aggressive but bordered on robbery as he forcefully ”asked” people to give him money (the people he “asked” were always smaller than him and mostly women.)

- A woman who defecated in the hallway about 10 feet from an OPEN washroom.

-Too many vagrants to count either drinking alchohol or shooting up drugs in the washrooms this was an almost daily occurence.

-Needles USED, uncapped and “hidden” in the cushions of the couch provided for women to breast feed and in the bench in the family restroom where children sit.

-Vagrants who verbally abused security and upon occasion attacked them physically, I myself have been attacked by vagrants with knives, a clawhammer, a hypodermic needle, a crowbar and fists.

-Almost every shift I witnessed drug deals on 8th avenue in plain sight during the day and evening.

-One particular vagrant who although banned and trespassed several times returns to Shoppers drug mart and steals huge amounts of cologne at least once a week.

-In one bank vestibule in our building we had such a problem with vagrants sleeping that we had to patrol that area literally every half hour and when asked to leave the Vagrants would become violent.

-People sneaking into the office towers and sleeping or relieving themselves in the hallways.

-One addict grabbing a deposit bag from a cubicle and running away from the 98 pound teenage girl he pushed to the ground and grabbed it from.

-the Drug addicted Drug dealer who passed out in a bathroom stall and broke his nose with the needle still in his arm, the large bag of crack and the large bag of heroin on the floor in front of him. He looked like he was OD’d and would not wake up so we were forced to call ems as well as CPS.

I can’t count how many times I’ve been threatened with death, having a Hepatitis or HIV positive person threaten to spit in my face or actually attempt to do so. I can’t count how many times I have caught Vagrants having sex in stairwells or camping out. All this for 14.00 an hour. So the next time you get all indignant in your righteous rage about how the homeless are mistreated try actually going downtown and seeing what you are writing about.

I no longer work at Td so I can speak up I wanted to say something while I worked there but could not.

I have been working a security consultant and a dispatcher so I can finally speak my mind.

[IONTOP]

GREAT POST :applause: :applause: :applause:

I do not waste any sympathy on them...

[PokerPacker]

well said :applause:

[Mark The Homer]

Good Post. This is the kind of details the public needs to hear about. It's not always about poor hungry homeless people and good citizens in soup kitchens.

[Woofer]

On the one hand, many of the "homeless" people described above are probably exactly as described. I say "probably" only because I have no experience to draw on and rely soley on the details posted.

On the other hand, some homeless persons are truly just in a bad situation. It was not too long ago that I found myself with no money, no job, no car, and no home of my own. (I fully accept that this was largely my own fault, however, there were some extenuating circumstances that just didn't help.)

I was lucky that I had relatives who were willing to give me a hand up. Some of the people who live on the street aren't so lucky.

[Ryman of the North]

Hey dude , there are a few homeless who I don't mind helping, one of my coowrkers gave a guy a coat and I used to buy him coffee and a snadwhich sometimes, he was trying to get off the streets and sold papers.

Unfortunately in my city we built a shelter and a mediclinic as well as a train station all in the downtown core, we have a huge drug problem and our idiot newspapers here keep selling the propoganda that all homeless are wonderful people who just need a chance. if you search my posts youll see I posted some stuff from my blog about getting jumped for my laptop and it was even worse last year when I was downtown as a supervisor.

I may be a bit cynical having seen the things I have seen. funny I grew up on a ranch and always believed that people were inherently good.

[Blighty Skins]

I would have no qualms if all homeless drug-addicts disappeared overnight ala Soylent Green. Use them to make something useful like curtain rings. :applause:

[Mark The Homer]

This is an interesting thread because, as we know, saying bad things about the homeless is politically incorrect. However, most people are on the outside looking in, and have very little insight on who the homeless are, and what makes up the homeless people. While there is no argument that many of them are down on their luck, and others have severe mental problems, I have learned that most of the homeless are individuals who have purposely chosen homelessness as a lifestyle.

I own a landscape maintenance business, and I've hired many individuals over the years who live at The Community for Creative Non-Violence, which is a shelter for the homeless.

http://users.erols.com/ccnv/

First of all, most of the homeless are not what you probably picture in your mind. They are not pushing baskets and mumbling. From what I can tell, most of them, meaning more than half, are simply taking advantage of a socialist system.

I'll give you a couple examples:

Mack is a guy who is a great worker, very bright, and seems to have lots of promise. And yet his paychecks are almost always small because of missed work days during the week and his constant need to re-pay loans. His money management skills are so poor that, if he is paid on Friday, he will usually be absolutely broke and penniless on Monday. Because of this, he has no money for food. And since he needs food to work a productive day, he will borrow some money in cash from his supervisor to be repaid the following pay day. And so the cycle continues.

One day, Mack's take home paycheck was only $150. We both acknowledged his paycheck was small and he would have to be very careful if he was going to make it to the following payday. He was to work the next day. I dropped him off at the metro station and told him I'd see him tomorrow. The next morning, he jumped in the truck and the first thing he said was "Can I borrow twenty?" Turns out, he found a game of craps the night before. Three fifty-dollar dice rolls and his paycheck was gone.

I asked him, why would he throw his money away like that? He replied he knew there was no way he'd make it through a week with $150, so the only solution he could think of was to try to win more with craps.

Eugene is a classic example. He came to work for me, and was thrilled to have a job and finally be able to get a regular paycheck. About ten days later, he was paid. Next time I see him, he's wearing a $100 Stetson cowboy hat. I was amazed that the very first thing Eugene needed after months of being unemployed was a cowboy hat.

While Mack at least had a little bit of pride, Eugene had none. Eugene would blow through his paycheck as fast as possible. When he ran out of money, he'd go down to M Street in Georgetown, sit on the sidewalk, put his cowboy hat upside down on the sidewalk next to him, and hang a sign over his head that said "I'm hungry, can you help me?" He said he typically makes $25 an hour doing this, tax free cash money. After a couple hours, he heads to Happy Hour.

One day I was in conversation with Eugene, we were discussing why he doesn't save. Doesn't he want to get out of the homeless shelter?

"No", he told me. And I could see his anger build as he pointed his index finger at me and said "Why should I work hard and save my money week after week, just to hand it over to some landlord who will then go on vacation in Florida with my money?" Eugene stared at me, his face contorted with rage.

I could write a book on this stuff. The thing is, these guys above are the GOOD guys. 98% of the people in that shelter don't WANT to work. They'd rather bum money than work. Most of them, if hired, don't show up the first day. If they do show up, they vanish within an hour, as soon as they realize the horrible truth that sweat is beginning to secrete from their pores.

It's a shame there are so many as described above. They make it even more difficult to help the ones that are truly deserving and in need of assistance.

[Ryman of the North]

Well I just got a call from the Paper and they are going to print my letter AS A COLUMN lol Ill post a link when they do.

Mark people rarely hear these stories all they ever hear about are the feel good or sob stories, honestly where I live about 95% of the homeless are literally scum, I have seen them gangup and beat up a guy (another homeless person) and take his money I have seen them molest a mentally deificient teenage girl(who should not be on the streets and the fact that she is breaks my heart) and I have seen them act like complete animals. I dealt with it through humour, ie making plans for when I become king of the world. My one plan was for renewbable energy, I would put them on a giant hamster wheel to generate electricity and feed them barely enough and my other plan was to put all the vagrants on an island with no food and limited crack until only one super vagrant was left and then drop him on Iraq.

[PokerPacker]

Well I just got a call from the Paper and they are going to print my letter AS A COLUMN lol Ill post a link when they do.

Mark people rarely hear these stories all they ever hear about are the feel good or sob stories, honestly where I live about 95% of the homeless are literally scum, I have seen them gangup and beat up a guy (another homeless person) and take his money I have seen them molest a mentally deificient teenage girl(who should not be on the streets and the fact that she is breaks my heart) and I have seen them act like complete animals. I dealt with it through humour, ie making plans for when I become king of the world. My one plan was for renewbable energy, I would put them on a giant hamster wheel to generate electricity and feed them barely enough and my other plan was to put all the vagrants on an island with no food and limited crack until only one super vagrant was left and then drop him on Iraq.

wait, did you just land yourself a job with the papers???

[Ryman of the North]

No they just said my letter was too long to printed as a letter so they are going to run it as a column as it is a side of the story that doesnt get told.

[dfitzo53]

I would have no qualms if all homeless drug-addicts disappeared overnight ala Soylent Green. Use them to make something useful like curtain rings. :applause:

What about the homeless who aren't addicted to drugs, however many of them there are?

Mark people rarely hear these stories all they ever hear about are the feel good or sob stories, honestly where I live about 95% of the homeless are literally scum, I have seen them gangup and beat up a guy (another homeless person) and take his money I have seen them molest a mentally deificient teenage girl(who should not be on the streets and the fact that she is breaks my heart) and I have seen them act like complete animals.

Just curious, did you do anything about either of the crimes?

[Mark The Homer]

Mark people rarely hear these stories all they ever hear about are the feel good or sob stories

The only plausible explanation I can think of regarding this stuff is, the individuals involved are mentally ill. All of them. And if that's true, then they deserve help. But how do you define mentally ill? If one throws all his money away in craps, is he mentally ill and therefore entitled to some kind of charity? Or is he a gambling addict, and therefore entitled to help? Or is he just reckless and stupid?

Same thing with the guy who refuses to move out of the homeless shelter because it's free.

It's just a shame that the people who are advocating so much help and sympathy for the homeless frequently have zero first-hand experience with what's actually going on. When you work with some of these guys for months at a time, you begin to realize the truth.

[Ryman of the North]

What about the homeless who aren't addicted to drugs, however many of them there are?

That was kind of my point, In downtown calgary at least, there are few who aren't, the simple fact is that they congregate on 8th ave because thats where the dealers hang out. you can always tell which ones are drugged up, they are dirtier, and are always moving or walk around in a stupour. They are always more agressive when asked to move along.

Just curious, did you do anything about either of the crimes?[/Qoute]

I reported the beating immediately but no Police came as it is considered an everyday occurence, our Police force here is so understaffed and overworked that frankly I think their time is better soent elsewhere rather trying to force animals to act like people.

as for the Molestation, we witnessed the beginning of it (the two losers dragging the girl into an alley) and called the cops I called for backup and went into the alley (it was off our property so I would not have been covered by insurance and would have been fired for leaving our property) but in the approx 8 minutes it took for me to get there after waitng for backup,the two guys who did it were walking away zipping up their pants long befre the police were able to respond so I explained the facts of life to them and performed a demonstration of basic physics, I then called EMS to respond because one of the vagrants had slipped and fallen. The girl refused to say anything to us or the police and said that it was consensual oral sex (even though she is seen on camera strugging with the 2 scumbags).

just let me be clear we would have responded to it sooner, off the property or not but about three nights before, another girl came up to me and said she had been mugged, when she told me that the guy was still on 8th ave I went down with another guard to speak to them, she suddenly disappeared and when we got there a group of vagrants surrounded us and pulled knives, I pulled out my flashlite (in canada we arent allowed to carry anything else) and just as it was about to get ugly a police car pulled up and the vagrants ran away. after that property managemnet made a rule that leaving the property for any reason was grounds for dismissal.

I learned a lot about people in this job and not much of it good.

[Ryman of the North]

The only plausible explanation I can think of regarding this stuff is, the individuals involved are mentally ill. All of them. And if that's true, then they deserve help. But how do you define mentally ill? If one throws all his money away in craps, is he mentally ill and therefore entitled to some kind of charity? Or is he a gambling addict, and therefore entitled to help? Or is he just reckless and stupid?

Same thing with the guy who refuses to move out of the homeless shelter because it's free.

It's just a shame that the people who are advocating so much help and sympathy for the homeless frequently have zero first-hand experience with what's actually going on. When you work with some of these guys for months at a time, you begin to realize the truth.

honestly a few are mentally il but some are just lazy/stupid, some deserve help and compassion but a lot are just losers who think they are bucking the system I pretty much judge them individually.