The Post Three-Part Series.......Part Deux

[Uno Boss]

"Let me tell you about Al," a Redskins coach said late in the season. "His game plan is solid. His passing game is awesome, if they'd let it work. The running game isn't that different than it was. The bottom line was that those guys weren't blocking the way they're blocking now. That whole thing that the AFC isn't physical, really, is a bunch of BS. Football is football. You either hit or get hit. Those guys decided to start hitting."

That section did it for me......

Its funny how people have this myth about the AFC being 'soft' and they have 10 of the top 12 defenses and 7 of the top 12 rushing attacks...and last year was the same deal...

People are stuck in the past and have not adapt to how the game has changed...

The offense strugled because guys were being stubborn and were not executing...

I think It was the players coming back off of the playoff run feeling like they knew it all and didnt buy into the system like they should have. And Joe Gibbs undermining Als authority did not help the situation.

I dont know if some of you remember but in gibbs first season....The players were calling the offense elementary and predictable....

we win five in a row behind a bunch of turnovers and now they comeinto the offseason thinking nothing was wrong....

25 yards in a playoff game is pathetic...14 offensive points total in 2 playoff games is pathetic...

The part that is being ignored from the late run in 2005 was the short field our offense had to work with...

We sucked in the playoff for the same reasons we sucked in the begining of this season...a bum QB...

Im glad snyder went back to his old ways and started to lean on gibbs or we may have never seen a change...:applause:

[Mooka]

I've seen you express these thoughts before and they're just as invalid and absurd as the first time you typed them.

It's pretty clear that the atmosphere that GIbbs would LIKE to have at the camp is not what is being created. Lots of guys won't publicly come out to the paper because they might end up on the bench or a scapegoat like Archuleta. It's also clear it takes an awful lot for things to change with this team and a LOT OF our problems have come about as a result of Gibbs and his approach to the structure and environment.

If the coach/president is unaccountable, then publicly leaking the stuff is the only way to see any POSSIBILITY of change.

Don't be so dramatic.

We all can clearly see the team has problems and that the team's current direction has flattened. Publically leaking the stuff serves no purpose and doesn't help the team change. We're 5-11, our coaching staff isn't that stubborn.

[chow184]

Kudos to those of you that suggested that Saunders was lobbying for Collins to replace Brunell...you were spot on!

he wasn't lobbying like that

he was like "hey we got 1 game left before we hit the 6 game mark,why not give odd todd a shot and see what he does..."

he just wanted odd todd to get a 1 game stint and if he played well more playing time which would have been deserved at that point for winning his 1 game tryout.

[Ghost of]

Mooka,

Here's another quote, from someone not even with the Redskins. Not wanting to be associated with public criticism of Gibbs was a huge reason for so many board wars here and elsewhere in Skins land. That's what it often came down to..

-------

"It's 2006. It's a passing league," said one league official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to be seen as being publicly critical of Gibbs.

----

And Uno Boss is right on. Saunders has proven things that Gibbs hasn't in the last several years. The players started blocking harder and started to 'think' less or whatever the hell their problem was...you can see now with our running game (something Saunders is known for and that's why Betts had such huge holes) the difference Saunders makes. Sure we ran well enough last year but now? We're just killing people in the run game. Portis is going to have games like he used to have in Denver next year.

Basically, Saunders has had top offenses with two teams for years. Gibbs was retired and his offense was ridiculed by players, as has the blocking scheme they used in 2004 and much of 2005.

So....who are we to believe has credibility? Don't buy into the myth-making from these people talking about Saunders being the disruptive force. Look at the decisions GIbbs and Co made and how it affected team chemistry and the HUGE ego of Williams and the various problems that created.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

we win five in a row behind a bunch of turnovers and now they come into the offseason thinking nothing was wrong....

The part that is being ignored from the late run in 2005 was the short field our offense had to work with...

During the 5-game winning streak at the end of 2005, the Skins had scoring drives of:

83 yds (TD)

80 yds (TD)

80 yds (TD)

79 yds (TD)

75 yds (TD)

72 yds (TD)

70 yds (TD)

70 yds (FG)

69 yds (TD)

63 yds (FG)

48 yds (TD)

45 yds (TD)

38 yds (TD)

37 yds (TD)

34 yds (TD)

22 yds (TD)

21 yds (TD)

21 yds (TD)

20 yds (TD)

0 yds (FG)

Ten scoring drives of 60 yards or more

Ten scoring drves of 50 yards or less

[spanishomelette]

... Publically leaking the stuff serves no purpose and doesn't help the team change. We're 5-11, our coaching staff isn't that stubborn.

I agree that it probably doesn't help the team, but at 5-11 it is somewhat inevitable to see some anonymous venting in the paper. I didn't find the comments in the article that inflammatory. Maybe I'm desensitized at this point.

[Mooka]

Mooka,

Here's another quote, from someone not even with the Redskins. Not wanting to be associated with public criticism of Gibbs was a huge reason for so many board wars here and elsewhere in Skins land. That's what it often came down to..

-------

"It's 2006. It's a passing league," said one league official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to be seen as being publicly critical of Gibbs.

----

He's a chump too...

Many board wars were started from players mouthing off to the media as well.

I agree that it probably doesn't help the team, but at 5-11 it is somewhat inevitable to see some anonymous venting in the paper. I didn't find the comments in the article that inflammatory. Maybe I'm desensitized at this point.

I've just been seeing more and more of the anonymous venting. It's gonna get worse when we start cutting players and restructuring contracts.

[DjTj]

That was a good article, although like the other one it definitely stirs the pot more than is really necessary.

It is perfectly reasonable that the players, especially the veteran players, were not excited about learning a new system a year after making a run to the playoffs. When things didn't go well in preseason and the beginning of the season, the players naturally started to question the system that they had worked their butts off learning in the offseason. It is also perfectly reasonable that there would be some friction when trying to merge the Gibbs and Saunders systems and that it would take some time to get both sides to meet in the middle.

All of that would have been smoothed out if we had won some games, but the losing only exacerbated the complaining and the conflicts.

I think that by the end of the season though, the players seemed happy with the way the offense was working. I don't think "Redskins football" is a code-word for throwing out Saunders' system - we were still running a different passing offense than last year. "Redskins football" is now something between what Gibbs' offense was last year and what Saunders' offense was in Kansas City. Our offense is a work in progress, but it is definitely progressing in the right direction.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Certainly a well-written and interesting piece. I can't help but feel optimism in that with all of these shenanigans going on, our offense really came around at the end of the season. Power running, deep passes, sustainable drives... All with essentially a rookie quarterback.

If we can win a couple games to start the season, you will definately hear a new tone in the lockerroom. If our line can play as it did to close out the last 6 games of the season, with a much improved Campbell that has chemistry with his recievers and a healthy Portis with a chip on his shoulder... I can see very good things on offense to come in 2007.

The defense, on the other hand... well, let's just say I'm not as optimistic.

[FedExFielder]

During the 5-game winning streak at the end of 2005, the Skins had scoring drives of:

83 yds (TD)

80 yds (TD)

80 yds (TD)

79 yds (TD)

75 yds (TD)

72 yds (TD)

70 yds (TD)

70 yds (FG)

69 yds (TD)

63 yds (FG)

48 yds (TD)

45 yds (TD)

38 yds (TD)

37 yds (TD)

34 yds (TD)

22 yds (TD)

21 yds (TD)

21 yds (TD)

20 yds (TD)

0 yds (FG)

Ten scoring drives of 60 yards or more

Ten scoring drves of 50 yards or less

Mad props for that research

[meek]

As depressing as all things Redskins related have been recently, this article was actually more uplifting than I expected. I was really impressed by some of Saunders' comments -- his unequivocal deferrence to Gibbs and willingness to adapt strategies and gameplans even when they have worked so well in other places. Coincidentally, Monday's article had the exact opposite effect for me in terms of turning me off to B. Lloyd who I previously viewed his as a standup, team-first guy who just made some immature mistakes.

The first part of the WP series which brought up serious flaws in the personnel decision making process along with some of the points made by Friend a few weeks ago are far more troublesome to me as I look ahead to next year than this piece about the offense. I'm still optimistic, possibly naievely so, that Gibbs and Saunders will find common ground and our offensive will not hold this team back in years to come.

[Oldfan]

"It's 2006. It's a passing league," said one league official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to be seen as being publicly critical of Gibbs. "Can anyone really play smash-mouth all the time anymore?"

The answer to the question is no. A consistent power game requires a dominant O line. Despite what Bugel, Samuels and Jansen think, we don't have a dominant O line.

In 2004, the power running game produced squat. In 2005, we were forced to run because we couldn't pass. Luckily, we closed out the year with teams that weren't very good in stopping the run.

In the fourth quarter of the final game this season, we saw the first signs of an NFL quality passing game in Gibbs II, one that might well be difficult for opponents to stop in the future, one with the ball being distributed to several receivers and not Santana dependent.

I cut my teeth on Baugh and was in my prime with Jurgensen. "Redskin Football" isn't three yards and a cloud of dust to me. And I don't give a rat's ass about the kind of football traditionally played in the NFC East.

If it were my team, I'd give gold watches to Gibbs and Bugel and keep Saunders. I'm not sure of his ideas about volume, but the rest of his offensive theory makes sense in today's game.

[Gregpeck99]

There are way too many cooks (cronies) in the kitchen ... Gibbs should man up and resign. The Skins never will be successful until he is replaced by a younger, more fire-in-his-belly guy like Bill Cowher. Dan knows he made a mistake bringing ole Joe back ... but he will fix it. The Skins are not far away from turning the corner especially after they draft Johnson, Jarrett or Ginn.

[laxpck]

I hate the fact that the same people in here calling for Gibbs to not be in charge of the offense last year are screaming at the fact that we changed offenses.

Which one do you want? There was such venom in people last year is saying that Gibbs had lost it over and over again. Now it takes less than a season to make the change and its like "Why did we ever change?". We changed because people like you complained last year that we needed innovative offense.

[Gregpeck99]

Gibbs was supposed to fix it ... he didn't ... that's why the fans are angry. So what else is new! Draft Johnson, Jarrett or Ginn.

[ProBowler]

Without starting a new thread I will put it here.

Redskins football sucks and it's boring too boot! You have to be an idiot to think your going to line up and run the ball down someone's throat all game long. This team is so damn predictable it's not even funny! As a fan, I can predict what the hell were going to do on offense more than half the time. I can't imagine what other teams who actually breakdown our game films can predict.

This ball hog style of ball we play keeps every team we play in the game. Even when we play well we lose. I am still scratching my head on how we lost the games against the Falcons and Eagles at the end of this year. We dominated them games and still LOST! We should have easily beat both them teams by twenty. God forbid if we get down in a game, there is a 95% chance it's over!

The game has changed and Gibbs is trying to conjure up the past! This is a passing league now. You can't get near the QB or a WR without a 15yrd penalty. Basically the league has changed the rules to GIVE you the Pass. Do I like it, NO, but that's the way it is and you're a damn fool not to take advantage of it. How many games have we lost on big pass interference calls on the defense? If the league had the same rules for RB's as they have for QB's and WR's then I would be all for Smash Mouth football, but they don't.

I'm getting tired of Gibbs every year saying we are going to research what other teams do and blah, blah, blah. WTF, Who in the hell in the NFL is granted on the job trainning internship as a head coach?

I think Gibbs is one hell of a person but his coaching can no longer be overlooked. First, it took him 3 years to challenge a play correctly. Secondly, he can't make up his mind on who the QB is going to be. Thirdly, he can't decide wether he want's to run or throw the ball. Fourthly, the playcalling at times is just awful at times. I will never froget the 3rd and 9 play where Cooley got lined up in a 2WR set(actually 1WR and a TE) and threw a 3yrd slant that got picked off for a TD. THAT WAS THE WORST PLAY CALL IN NFL HISTORY! Now, he's lost on how to conduct a offseason!

Please someone shoot me! :shot:

[fansince62]

"The answer to the question is no. A consistent power game requires a dominant O line. Despite what Bugel, Samuels and Jansen think, we don't have a dominant O line."

bingo! All season long they had trouble getting the first down/touchdown on 3rd and short. The debacle against Dallas at home epitomizes your point. And the hallucinating fans & players who think the last 5 games of the 2005 season validated the offense - we had no passing game...we had no passing threats other than Moss. The Philly game? We almost lost to a totally demoralized, inept, TO destroyed team. Gibbs knew the offense had to change.......all this Redskin football" pap is a coverup for mismanagement. Were that his philosophy, then he would have allocated more time to the defense last off-season. Instead, they let Arrington go on the expectation that a loser like Holdman would improve, bet that Springs' health would improve (and not require more depth), decided that the experiment with an outside linebacker in the middle could be continued and signed a tackler instead of a cover guy for a safety. you wann rnu the ball? then make absolutely certain you have a dominant defense. The failing here is with the coaches and the personnel strategy....

one hard lesson in life....a leader has to back his subordnants. doesn't seem to be the case in Redskin land......a product of an ill-conceived organizational structure...

[Skins81a]

""The NFC East is about brutality, about kicking someone's ass," said a high-ranking Redskins coach, who asked not to be identified. "[bill] Parcells, [Tom] Landry, Philadelphia, Joe Gibbs. It's not about yards. When we get a two-yard run up the middle, we applaud, because we know we've taken something out of that defense, and we'll keep taking it until we've beaten them down.""

Man, this is what myself and probably 1/2 of this board was saying since game 1 this year. We played weak run defenses week after week early in the season didn't run the damned ball at them. A few of those games would easily have been wins if we had.

Sorry but that sounds alot like Buges BS to me. 2 Yards up the middle is the tampa game.

For the post above..how does Springs to safety sound.....yea it sounds half baked to me!

[tr1]

"The answer to the question is no. A consistent power game requires a dominant O line. Despite what Bugel, Samuels and Jansen think, we don't have a dominant O line."

bingo! All season long they had trouble getting the first down/touchdown on 3rd and short. The debacle against Dallas at home epitomizes your point. And the hallucinating fans & players who think the last 5 games of the 2005 season validated the offense - we had no passing game...we had no passing threats other than Moss. The Philly game? We almost lost to a totally demoralized, inept, TO destroyed team. Gibbs knew the offense had to change.......all this Redskin football" pap is a coverup for mismanagement. Were that his philosophy, then he would have allocated more time to the defense last off-season. Instead, they let Arrington go on the expectation that a loser like Holdman would improve, bet that Springs' health would improve (and not require more depth), decided that the experiment with an outside linebacker in the middle could be continued and signed a tackler instead of a cover guy for a safety. you wann rnu the ball? then make absolutely certain you have a dominant defense. The failing here is with the coaches and the personnel strategy....

one hard lesson in life....a leader has to back his subordnants. doesn't seem to be the case in Redskin land......a product of an ill-conceived organizational structure...

You really need to re-read this story again.

The blocking scheme changed in November...and what happened? Betts ends up with over 1000 yards.

I guess that's not dominating? :doh:

[tr1]

Without starting a new thread I will put it here.

Redskins football sucks and it's boring too boot! You have to be an idiot to think your going to line up and run the ball down someone's throat all game long. This team is so damn predictable it's not even funny! As a fan, I can predict what the hell were going to do on offense more than half the time. I can't imagine what other teams who actually breakdown our game films can predict.

All it did was get us to the second round of the playoffs last year... :doh:

[tr1]

This story shows Gibbs' willingness to let someone perform, but when they don't, he makes changes.

Saunders is being politically correct right now, but he'll be gone after next year...or maybe sooner.

The Skins needed a tweak on offense, not a re-build.

I think JG learned that lesson.

[Henry]

Another shovelful of dirt on this disaster of a season.

Heh. That was my reaction exactly.

[E-Dog Night]

Is offense really the problem here?

I hope the next article is about the defense. With last year's defense, the Redskins are a wild card team. With the defense of 2 years ago, they're division champs. Not to say that the offense was flawless by any means, but it was good enough to win many of the games that were lost - by demoralizing big plays given up by the defense.

Last year, the defense seemed to give up one big play a game. This year, it was three a game or so, and with 12 turnovers all season? Fahgetaboutit. There aren't many offenses in the league that can overcome that kind of defense ineptitude, not even the Colts.

Interesting to see what the Post uncovers about how Gibbs & Williams interacted after the D produced one suckfest after the other.

[fansince62]

"This story shows Gibbs' willingness to let someone perform, but when they don't, he makes changes.

Saunders is being politically correct right now, but he'll be gone after next year...or maybe sooner.

The Skins needed a tweak on offense, not a re-build.

I think JG learned that lesson."

hmmmm...which cliche to consider first? decisions...decisions.

brilliant! all that is needed is a "tweak"! there's a term pregnant with football import. And our 3 time SB coach is "learning" (i.e., there is no decision trail that lies behind all of this...no history...just tweaks!!!!).

if you're going to attack others (e.g., AJ) try to provide some substance yourself...not just deliberations from the mountain top totally void of any reasoning or detailed thinking.

[newtomd]

Reading this article really increased my respect for Saunders.

I know that him saying the right things to the media could be just an indication of his emotional intelligence. However, his comments coupled with his adjustments to the offense in the last half of the season demonstrate (at least to me) his flexibility and his ability to adapt. If only GW had the same level of flexibility with his defensive schemes and JG with his choice for starting QB, I think that we would have been an easy playoff team this season.