Skins Addict Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Oct 15, 2005 http://www.chiefswarroom.net/tam/article_18.shtml The problem is that historically with this current regime we are stuck in the first quarter of the season being too experimental. How many years now has it been that Tony Gonzalez or Priest Holmes isn't involved early on? It seems that offensive coordinator Al Saunders always wants to find other outlets for the KC scoring machine. This is fine, but it's also what the preseason is for. Saunders has to go back to what brought us to the offensive juggernaut we all expect. Stop the madness, don't worry about anyone's feelings, and get the ball in the hands of the moneymen-period. Usually by this time, he has it figured out and we enjoy a breakout game for almost everyone on the offense. I thought it would happen in week four, and it did start nicely, but now I think the Chiefs explode big-time on the Redskins. October 31, 2005 http://chiefs.mostvaluablenetwork.com/2005/10/ First lesson: Al Saunders no longer outwits opposing defenses. With that point, I note that I place the majority of the blame for yesterday’s loss on Saunders. The past few years, Saunders has been able to outwit opposing defenses, and his playcalling was usually the perfect call for the situation. This year, Saunders is fooling no one. I cannot count how many times I predicted the type of play he would call in yesterday’s first half. The final straw was when, after Dante Hall’s big return towards the end of the first half, he called a screen pass. That playcall by itself effectively ruled out any possibility of the Chiefs scoring some crucial points at the end of the half. Understandably, Saunders felt somewhat limited because of the poor pass protection. To Saunders’ credit, he made adjustments in the second half, an element the Chiefs have sorely lacked. Still, it makes one wonder why he could not make those adjustments earlier in the game. When you run as much as Saunders tried to do in the first half, you must call more playactions. Unfortunately, it seemed as if Saunders saved all those playactions for the second half. November 30, 2005 http://chiefs.mostvaluablenetwork.com/2005/11/ Willie Roaf: One thing the past week taught us is that Al Saunders looks like more of a genius when Willie Roaf is in the lineup. Saunders is clearly more daring when Roaf anchors the left side, and he allows Trent Green to throw downfield more. Saunders’ more daring playcalling was key to stretching a Patriots defense that essentially could focus on either the run or the pass, but not both. Saunders will have to implement similar playcalling against the remaining teams on the schedule for the offense to score at least 25 points. November 14, 2005 http://chiefs.mostvaluablenetwork.com/2005/11/ As much as it hurts me to write this, though, Will Shields has been the biggest disappointment. Of course, that is the danger of setting such high expectations. But there can be no doubt that, once Shields assured the Chiefs he would not retire yet, Al Saunders and Dick Vermeil designed their offense knowing Shields would block his man. Sadly, that has not been the case. While his run blocking has been fine, his pass blocking has been a major disappointment. I have never seen defenders blow by Shields and harass Trent Green as much as they do now. January 19, 2006 http://chiefs.mostvaluablenetwork.com/2006/01/ As successful as Saunders was, he had complete control with no flexibility at all. This rigid structure meant that Trent Green could not make adjustments at the line. If Saunders guessed wrongly, either the play would fail badly, or Green would be forced to waste a time out. And quite often, it would take so long for a playcall to reach Green, the Chiefs would either need to rush the snap, or call a timeout because of the play clock. It would be impossible to count the number of times I cursed because a time out was wasted early in the half. ... Saunders had his limitations as well. He was not looking like a genius when Willie Roaf was injured and KC had to rely on more max protection schemes. Aug 09, 2006 http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/index.php?fn=view_thread&t=731056 But, if Joe Gibbs keeps a tighter reign on Saunders than Vermiel did in KC and forces him to run the football CONSISTENTLY and not just go pass happy all game long when he damn well should be running the football, Clinton Portis should be able to take a lot of pressure off of the offense while they try to learn the intricacies of the passing game. ... If Saunders can keep from overthinking his playcalls as he tended to do in big games for the Chiefs and just call the offense needed to win the game, The Redskins will be dangerous. If Saunders gets cute and tries that BS where he's calling reverses while trying to close out a game, or calling passes at the 1 yard line that get picked and returned for a score, the Redskins will have some first year growing pains in that offense. Saunders was responsible for a TON of yards and a TON of points in KC. However, his playcalling in key situations cost the Chiefs dearly in some games. It doesnt matter if you put up 400+ yards of offense a game if you dont win the game. He knew the defense was a weak point, and instead of focusing on keeping the ball and keeping the weak defense on the sideline, he got cute and went 3 and out a lot more than he should have late in a game with asinine pass calls when all he shouldve been doing was pounding Larry Johnson into the defense until all zeroes were on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMBAdict04 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I didn't even read all that but wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcardle1982 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I can't blame our woes on Saunders. It starts with Synder and Gibbs. (Let the blasting of me begin.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think the big thing is he refuses to stick with the running game. Its not working? Then get with Bugel and figure out why it isn't working. We have the most expensive OL in the league and there really is no excuse to not be able to run the ball against the worst defenses in the league. There really isn't. And that last guy was exactly right. His playcalling hangs our defense out to dry at times. I figured bringing him in would be this way but I had no idea that our defense would be this bad AND he would still get away with this kind of playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Al Saunders is doing fine, especially with Campbell in, this offense is doing fine if you will notice, this offense has not had the possesions it needs to be successfull, especially in the tampa game...the D just couldnt get the ball back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glikster04 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 ironic. is this another situation of us taking another team's problems away from them (i.e. archuleta, carter, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapHaszard Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I am assuming that these are fans comments. If Sanders had been running the ball all the time I am sure that the fans would be screaming that he needs to pass. Remember the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. They don't sound any different than some folks in here, lots of very knowlegeable guys that played HS football. A lot of times certain calls are to set up something that will come later. They seem to be odd at the time but they are to set up the defense to expect one thing when they will go with something else. With the salary cap in play most teams don't have a lot of depth, and you need to see what your subs can do under game conditions, injuries are going to occur so I would suspect Sanders was playing some of his subs in the begining of the year to see what he had. I can see where that would make the fans uneasy. Some guys look good at practice but stink in a game, you need to see that early. (couple of names on the Skins come to mind) What I am trying to say is if you took selected comments from fans you don't get a total picture of what is going on. You have knowlegeable people making comments and some that aren't quite as knowlegable, but sound as if they are. In other words don't take the above comments as gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyburd Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I can't blame our woes on Saunders. It starts with Synder and Gibbs. (Let the blasting of me begin.) You are 100% correct, I won't ever blast the truth. This once storied franchise has been ruined. It all starts at the top, and you need to leave alone what was working fine. I heard JC last night, and he even said that the way to success, is continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I'm still thinking this guy has more Martz in him than Gibbs. He refuses to run the damned ball. We have 3 or 4 good RB's on this team. Most teams can claim 1 decent RB. Duckett and Betts and even Rock could and have had 100 yard games. We need to run the ball. Like I said earlier here, if its not working then Saunders needs to get a few plays together with Bugel and make them work. If they can't do that then they aren't worth 10% of the pay they receive. These guys are banking. They also aren't earning it. It is obvious. When you play 30th and worse run defenses 3 weeks in a row early in the season and can't get anything going something is wrong. When you also have the highest paid assistants in the league (by a large margin) you need to fix the problem. Nothing has been fixed in the running game. It's like they don't even acknowledge that there is a problem. Faith in the coaching staff is gone. They don't know what they are doing. Prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAgent Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 WOW...those articles could have been written this season and would be mostly accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve57 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I agree. Wow. From a distance, I had always been impressed with how prolific the Chiefs offense was, but there was clearly other stuff going on. Does anyone know the details of just who brought Saunders here? I've always felt that this was more a Snyder/Vinnie hire than a Gibbs one, but I just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish50 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 No matter how successful a team may be, there will always be critics. These critics baffle me as the Chiefs offense, under the direction of Al Saunders, were always rated in the top 5 and made the playoffs every year. His offense also worked effectively in St. Louis, with a Super Bowl. Does anybody know how long it took the Rams and the Chiefs to adjust to Al Saunders offense? Was it mid way thru the first year? Was it in the second year? Are the Redskins the only players that don't have the intelligence to grasp his philosophy? If the two previous teams could run his offense and be successful at it, why can't the Redskins? I think you give him a pass this year and see what happens next year. Campbell will have 7 games under his belt plus some preseason games by then so there should be no excuses if it fails. The problem this team better address this off season is the defense, across the board. I've never seen a defense play this bad in Washington. They are a total embarrassment and should be ashamed to even think of collecting a pay check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Most of these were written after a loss. Sounds like KC has some former DC natives as it's fans.... KC had a #1 ranked Offense in 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotfire Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Does anybody know how long it took the Rams and the Chiefs to adjust to Al Saunders offense? Was it mid way thru the first year? Was it in the second year? Are the Redskins the only players that don't have the intelligence to grasp his philosophy?I don't feel like looking it up again, but it looked to me (when I researched it) that the offense basically performed about as well as the year before Saunders got there for each team he joined. Then, the following year, the offense turned into the #1 (as far as yardage per game). Hopefully that will happen with us...?Clint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Does anyone know the details of just who brought Saunders here? I've always felt that this was more a Snyder/Vinnie hire than a Gibbs one, but I just don't know. It was all Gibbs. If not then Gibbs should feel better now since he won with what he brought. The Saunders offense is the octogon shaped block that we tried to fit into the round hole. His offense is good but I don't know that we have the OL for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think the big thing is he refuses to stick with the running game. Its not working? Then get with Bugel and figure out why it isn't working. We have the most expensive OL in the league and there really is no excuse to not be able to run the ball against the worst defenses in the league. There really isn't. The thing with the running game is that you have to stay patient and you have to stick with it consistently. Saunders is a lot like Spurrier in that when he sees he's not having any success running the ball early on he'll abandon it. With Gibbs running the offense last year that was rarely ever the case. Unless we were out of it early, he'd stick to his guns and kept running the ball even it was only for 1 and 2 yard pickups. That element is completely gone from our offense and Saunders is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Why not post the ones when they won too, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve57 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 It was all Gibbs. If not then Gibbs should feel better now since he won with what he brought.The Saunders offense is the octogon shaped block that we tried to fit into the round hole. His offense is good but I don't know that we have the OL for it. Thanks! Yeah, that was a point Mass was making during the game. Basically, how a number of Skins moves (Portis, Saunders, etc.), in isolation, look good, but when plugged into the current reality of the team, don't fit. Chemistry -- or the lack of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 The thing with the running game is that you have to stay patient and you have to stick with it consistently. Saunders is a lot like Spurrier in that when he sees he's not having any success running the ball early on he'll abandon it. With Gibbs running the offense last year that was rarely ever the case. Unless we were out of it early, he'd stick to his guns and kept running the ball even it was only for 1 and 2 yard pickups. That element is completely gone from our offense and Saunders is to blame. Look around. I brought up the Saunders/Spurrier connection as well. He runs almost the same offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 You know in retrospect if we didn't have Saunders and Gibbs decided its time to start JC for the getgo I say we would be kicking butt on offense right now. And I would have Betts 3rd on the chart. Portis and DJ would get the carries. Can you imagine DJ running between the tackles like Riggo did and then hitting them with Portis? The D would be dead by the start of the 4th quarter. And with JC having that big arm Moss, Lloyd and Randle would go nuts on play action. Gibbs offense was fine. He just picked the wrong QB to run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 YPortis and DJ would get the carries. Can you imagine DJ running between the tackles like Riggo did and then hitting them with Portis? The D would be dead by the start of the 4th quarter. And with JC having that big arm Moss, Lloyd and Randle would go nuts on play action. Gibbs offense was fine. He just picked the wrong QB to run it. Yeah but that is his weakness. He has a hard time with QB's but the Redskins win when he gets the right one in there. I'm almost willing to believe that he got lucky his first time due to all the great players thrown at his feet by Beathard. He was a great coach. I can't argue with that but respect grows for Bobby Beathard right now. BTW, why did he resign in May of 1989? And wasn't that about the time the talent stopped showing itself for the old Gibbs teams? I don't know, maybe I'm just questioning it all right now. I'm starting to think that Gibbs just got lucky though. Or he used to have all the right assistants and now money can't buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.