At least 7 states ban gay marriage...

[rincewind]

Albino's don't have a choice to be albino. Well, except Michael Jackson

So, you chose to be straight then. Huh, I never made that choice, just comes naturally to me.

Everybody - please reminded me never to bend over in front of Sarge. He may change his mind and make the other choice. :puke:

[jbooma]

Albino's don't have a choice to be albino. Well, except Michael Jackson

neither do gays Sarge

for those that are homophobic what would you say if you son was gay and wanted to get marriage??

[rincewind]

Here's some questions.

What if there was no tax break for marriage?

Would gays still want to be married?

And what is the point of marriage?

When I got married, I could have give two ****s about tax breaks. I got married because I love my wife, and wanted to share the love with the world.

So, yeah, they would still want to get married. But I'm glad you think so little of marriage that you think its a financial endeavour.

[Predicto]

Here's some questions.

What if there was no tax break for marriage?

Would gays still want to be married?

And what is the point of marriage?

There are a lot of other legal issues that are connected to marriage, things like inheritance, the ability to make medical decisions, etc. I think they would still want it.

Even if it came with no legal rights, some of them would want it purely as an equal rights symbolic issue, but that simply isnt the reality of our world. There are legal consequences outside of taxes.

[Predicto]

neither do gays Sarge

for those that are homophobic what would you say if you son was gay and wanted to get marriage??

Sarge has already told us that.

He would beat the gay out of the kid :laugh:

[ccsl2]

Gotta agree with this...

Jesus speaks about divorce in the bible and how bad it is, yet he never speakes about homosexuality (most of those quotes come from the old test or Paul), yet amazingly, Divorce is "OK"...

Exactly...and the last time I checked, God nor Jesus wrote the Old Testament

[jbooma]

Sarge has already told us that.

He would beat the gay out of the kid :laugh:

that is abnormal :laugh: :laugh:

[Zguy28]

When I got married, I could have give two ****s about tax breaks. I got married because I love my wife, and wanted to share the love with the world.[/QUote]Neither did I. But I also did it because I wanted to spend the rest of my life with that person and no other.

So, yeah, they would still want to get married. But I'm glad you think so little of marriage that you think its a financial endeavour.

I didn't mean it like that. I'm trying to expose the fallacy of the "gay civil rights" argument. They often claim they have civil rights to equal treatment as married couples and big one is tax incentives.

[jbooma]

Exactly...and the last time I checked, God nor Jesus wrote the Old Testament

bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or the new

[Zguy28]

Exactly...and the last time I checked, God nor Jesus wrote the Old Testament

That's debateable, but for a different thread.

[Isifhan]

"Benefits". Why should abnormal people get benefits? And where does it stop?

So mentally retarded people, or say incapacitated stroke victims shouldn't get benefits? I mean, they are abnormal right? What the hell kind of statement is this?

[Predicto]

I didn't mean it like that. I'm trying to expose the fallacy of the "gay civil rights" argument. They often claim they have civil rights to equal treatment as married couples and big one is tax incentives.

I don't see it as a fallacy. I think both arguments are valid - legal rights assocaited with marriage, and simple decency to allow people who love each other to formalize their love.

[Predicto]

So mentally retarded people, or say incapacitated stroke victims shouldn't get benefits? I mean, they are abnormal right? What the hell kind of statement is this?

oooh oooh oooohh

I know where Sarge is gonna go with this

I know where Sarge is gonna go with this

[Midnight Judges]

Neither did I. But I also did it because I wanted to spend the rest of my life with that person and no other.

I didn't mean it like that. I'm trying to expose the fallacy of the "gay civil rights" argument. They often claim they have civil rights to equal treatment as married couples and big one is tax incentives.

:laugh: :laugh: keep trying. A lot of these amendments are specifically targeting civil unions as well. People simply want to hurt the gay community and it makes absolutely no sense until you bring religion into the equation.

[DCsportsfan53]

So you think there should be an ammendment to the constitution?

What else do many of the people in this country not like that we should create ammendments on?

Not wearing white after Labor Day? No belly shirts for fat women?

Where is marriage addressed by the founding fathers?

Again, it's none of the government's business. Where it DOES become their business is the legal rights afforded to married couples. So the government has stepped into our lives in that regard, and made the private, religious institution of marriage a legal term... and to solve it, we're proposing that the governement meddle some more, and pass a few more laws.

I find it highly ironic that the same right wingers who demand that the governement not touch their guns, and demand that the government stay the hell out of their lives, and demand that the government reduce taxes... these are the same people begging the government to step back into our lives to prevent actions they personally don't approve of. How do you justify that?

....

Could not have said it better myself. It's hypocrisy in it's finest and most obvious form.

They're not. They're concerned with others (gay marriage advocates) pushing they're belief system on them.

See, the whole thing is this, people like me, view Homosexuality as deviant. If that's prejudiced or un-PC, well I'm sorry you feel that way. Its not a right. Its not civil rights.

If it was a non-issue, then how did it get on the ballot? How did it get voted into law by a majority?

Just some things to think about.

I'll never understand why it's so difficult to see the difference. When YOU try to tell someone else who they can and can't marry, YOU are FORCING your beliefs ON THEM! When someone says, I want to have the same rights as YOU, that is not forcing **** on anyone.

Let's just come out and say it. You guys do not approve of homosexuality and don't like it. That's all this is. It's just plain homophobia and instead of DEALING with it and realizing it's NONE OF YOUR ****ING BUSINESS, you, in completely hypocritical fashion and completely opposite to the Conservative political philosophies you SUPPOSEDLY stand for, want the govt to legislate what people can and can't do in their personal lives so you don't have to look at it. That's pathetic and unamerican.

[portisizzle]

Could not have said it better myself. It's hypocrisy in it's finest and most obvious form.

I'll never understand why it's so difficult to see the difference. When YOU try to tell someone else who they can and can't marry, YOU are FORCING your beliefs ON THEM! When someone says, I want to have the same rights as YOU, that is not forcing **** on anyone.

Let's just come out and say it. You guys do not approve of homosexuality and don't like it. That's all this is. It's just plain homophobia and instead of DEALING with it and realizing it's NONE OF YOUR ****ING BUSINESS, you, in completely hypocritical fashion and completely opposite to the Conservative political philosophies you SUPPOSEDLY stand for, want the govt to legislate what people can and can't do in their personal lives so you don't have to look at it. That's pathetic and unamerican.

What is the definition of marriage, DC? Don't make something up out of thin air about what you "think" in order to buttress your rant.

[Zguy28]

I don't see it as a fallacy. I think both arguments are valid - legal rights assocaited with marriage, and simple decency to allow people who love each other to formalize their love.

I'll be honest Predicto, I, as well as many others, just think its a deviant "lifestyle choice" and nothing will change that. I don't hate gays either. I have gay friends. One works right down the hall from me, he's got his ACLU support plaque outside his office, and we're still friends. He knows I don't agree with his choice or accept it.

I believe this nation has changed for the worse when homosexuals want to be married and our young folks, those who are straight, do not. This country will be no more within one hundred years I believe, which is sad, because I love the US of A. I don't think it just started with gay marriage either, it started with the permissiveness of the 50's and the no-fault divorce in the 60's.

I wonder if gays would still want marriage if divorce was illegal?

[rincewind]

I'll be honest Predicto, I, as well as many others, just think its a deviant "lifestyle choice" and nothing will change that. I don't hate gays either. I have gay friends. One works right down the hall from me, he's got his ACLU support plaque outside his office, and we're still friends. He knows I don't agree with his choice or accept it.

Just like I told Sarge - then that means you 'chose' to be straight and I need to tie a piece of string around my finger to remind me not to bend down in front of you, as you may change your mind. My butt is a

[Larry]

Honest answer - polygamy is a lot harder to figure out in this argument. Unlike portis' dishonest and inflammatory dog analogy (or the even more dishonest and inflammatory pedo analogy), with polygamy you have a real question of consenting adults, and I am not sure what I think about it, to be honest.

I'll also admit that it at least has some validity.

(And some folks would claim it's got some religous support, too.)

One reason I'd admit that I cringe at the thought of legalised polygamy is that "family law" things can get complicated enough the way things are right now. Things like child custody fights can get a whole lot more complicated when you've got, say, 14 "parents" (and every one of them has secondary relatives) involved.

Another problem I've got with it is that one of the fundamental elements of marriage, to me, is exclusivity. (That whole "foresaking all others" thing.)

One expression that comes to me is that if, say, three women want to "marry" five guys, then they're not having a marriage, they're forming a corporation.

But I'd admit that just because the thought of polygamy makes me, emotionally, get all complicated, doesn't strike me as a good enough reason to ban it.

[Zguy28]

I'll never understand why it's so difficult to see the difference. When YOU try to tell someone else who they can and can't marry, YOU are FORCING your beliefs ON THEM! When someone says, I want to have the same rights as YOU, that is not forcing **** on anyone.

Its forcing me to ACCEPT something that is offensive to me. I'm rubber and you're glue!

Let's just come out and say it. You guys do not approve of homosexuality and don't like it.

I have.

That's all this is. It's just plain homophobia

Believe it or not, you're just wrong. I'm not scared of gays. So before you get your panties in more of a bunch, let me say this. I don't agree with sodomy laws with regards to people's private abodes. You want to have anal sex in your bedroom, I won't stop you. I think its wrong, but that's you're home. Go for it, reap the consequences.

and instead of DEALING with it and realizing it's NONE OF YOUR ****ING BUSINESS, you, in completely hypocritical fashion and completely opposite to the Conservative political philosophies you SUPPOSEDLY stand for, want the govt to legislate what people can and can't do in their personal lives so you don't have to look at it. That's pathetic and unamerican.

Spoken like the true anarchist you are.

[luckydevil]

There is a real simple solution to this. Get the government out of the business of marriage. In other words, privatization.

[Zguy28]

Just like I told Sarge - then that means you 'chose' to be straight and I need to tie a piece of string around my finger to remind me not to bend down in front of you, as you may change your mind. My butt is a

No, people are wired straight, just as sure as a person is an omnivore, yet some people choose to be vegetarians. Hence procreation comes of being straight. Its the natural order. Whether you believe in God or not.

Let's go down a similar path quickly.

Is porn ok?

Is child porn ok?

At what point does it become ok? When a girl is 15? 16? 17? Surely she can consent at 15? Where do you draw the line?

ANd don't give me no bogus apples and oranges crud either. I know you.

[portisizzle]

There is a real simple solution to this. Get the government out of the business of marriage. In other words, privatization.

This would be a good thing. I can think about 10 other things that government should get out of as well.

[rincewind]

No, people are wired straight, just as sure as a person is an omnivore, yet some people choose to be vegetarians. Hence procreation comes of being straight. Its the natural order. Whether you believe in God or not.

Let's go down a similar path quickly.

Is porn ok?

Is child porn ok?

At what point does it become ok? When a girl is 15? 16? 17? Surely she can consent at 15? Where do you draw the line?

ANd don't give me no bogus apples and oranges crud either. I know you.

This may have to wait - bad things going on at work. I'll be home around 7pm EST.

[DCsportsfan53]

What is the definition of marriage, DC? Don't make something up out of thin air about what you "think" in order to buttress your rant.

I don't care what word you use, don't call it marriage if it's gays. It's a matter of two people having the RIGHT to choose to ally themselves under the law, for protection of both partners in the relationship. This is a legal thing, not a religious thing.

Its forcing me to ACCEPT something that is offensive to me. I'm rubber and you're glue!

I have.

Believe it or not, you're just wrong. I'm not scared of gays. So before you get your panties in more of a bunch, let me say this. I don't agree with sodomy laws with regards to people's private abodes. You want to have anal sex in your bedroom, I won't stop you. I think its wrong, but that's you're home. Go for it, reap the consequences.

Spoken like the true anarchist you are.

Ah yes, thank you so much for that first sentence, you just proved my point for me. YOU DO NOT HAVE FREEDOM FROM BEING OFFENDED!!!! You have freedom of speech, freedom of expression, ect, NOT the freedom from being offended. It's their lives, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you should have any say in it.

I'm not promoting anarchy, I'm trying to defend a person's right to choose what's best for THEIR life, whether or not it offends you is ABSOLUTELY, ENTIRELY inconsequential. It means nothing. What you're advocating is EXACTLY the opposite of what conservative politics are supposed to be. You are trying to legislate your version of morality and that's wrong. Let people live their own lives, it does not affect you in any way if a gay couple is entitled to the legal rights that come with a marriage. Not in any way at all. To attempt to say that's not forcing your beliefs on others is not not being honest, with yourself or others.