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President Says Democrats Are 'Disposed' to Increase Taxes


@DCGoldPants

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In the immortal words of Bill Maher-

"poor people in America are fat".

Think about it.

Good one :)

Still, the "personal responsibility" argument does not properly account for environmental influences. In other words, people have to be taught responsibility before you can hold them responsible.

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GDP is not a good indicator of the real economic anctivity of our nation???

Do you know what GDP is???

GDP favors policies that are geared to favor the rich???

We have a problem of vast poverty???

before you make a fool out of yourself maybe you should collect some data that supports your arguements. I am willing to bet that you have never been to a "third world" country. Our poverty problems don't compare to what most of those countries are going through.

I pulled a report out for Asbury and decided to not post it. It was a worldwide graph on poverty worldwide. Do you know what the standard was in defining true worldwide poverty?

When someone makes less than a dollar a month. America does not even register on this report.

Asbury, you want to whine about poverty? Go to Africa or the Middle East. Get you sea legs and after you are done seeing what poverty really is, come back to me and complain about people that can not get off the ass and work.

OUT.

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I pulled a report out for Asbury and decided to not post it. It was a worldwide graph on poverty worldwide. Do you know what the standard was in defining true worldwide poverty?

When someone makes less than a dollar a month. America does not even register on this report.

Asbury, you want to whine about poverty? Go to Africa or the Middle East. Get you sea legs and after you are done seeing what poverty really is, come back to me and complain about people that can not get off the ass and work.

OUT.

Huh? Isn't poverty a function of both income and the cost of goods and services? It seems meaningless to compare people around the world making "less than a dollar a month" when that dollar might have dramatically different spending power for people in different places. So, what value does your mysterious report have? Maybe before you go "OUT" you can share more of your, uh, economics expertise? Or, at least share with us this mysterious report that you "decided to not post" so that the rest of us can understand how one can establish a benchmark for poverty based solely on income?

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Huh? Isn't poverty a function of both income and the cost of goods and services? It seems meaningless to compare people around the world making "less than a dollar a month" when that dollar might have dramatically different spending power for people in different places. So, what value does your mysterious report have? Maybe before you go "OUT" you can share more of your, uh, economics expertise? Or, at least share with us this mysterious report that you "decided to not post" so that the rest of us can understand how one can establish a benchmark for poverty based solely on income?

That dollar is adjusted. I will look up the report again. it is sad.

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I pulled a report out for Asbury and decided to not post it. It was a worldwide graph on poverty worldwide. Do you know what the standard was in defining true worldwide poverty?

When someone makes less than a dollar a month. America does not even register on this report.

Asbury, you want to whine about poverty? Go to Africa or the Middle East. Get you sea legs and after you are done seeing what poverty really is, come back to me and complain about people that can not get off the ass and work.

OUT.

Portis, we are not talking about poverty in Africa or the Sudan, we are talking about poverty in the US!!! Is there poverty in the world, yes there is, but there is ALSO poverty here in the US, there is absolutely no denying it. The question is what do you do about it?

The most successful program ever instituted by our government was and still is SSI. According to statistics, over 46.8% of elderly people would be below the poverty line without SSI, while only 10% are because it is in place. That is the finest definition of a success story, taking millions of people off poverty is a GREAT thing.

Now you may be against SSI, but the overwhelming vast majority of the public is not. Do you know why? Because it is a safety net for our elderly and the downtrodden of society. Maybe you think they should just be culled and left to die, or maybe you believe that mentally retarded people should be killed to eliminate their genes from the gene pool like they did in Nazi Germany. I don't know what you think we should do with them, because you have never given a solution to the problem.

The question is what do you do as a country for the less fortunate in life. There are many people who define a society not by how big your army is, but by how well the worst off in your society are treated. When you can sit down, and say that you would have no problem with a parent being on a government program because you couldn't afford anything for them, and if you think the care they get is very good, then you have a well working program.

Life sucks for some people Portis, and hardships happen all the time. Things like SSI were instituted to insure that the American dream does not escape everyone. Look at the billions lost on Enron, and how people's llife savings were destroyed by a few rich billionaires. They care about money, not about the value of the person, and that mentality is not good for society as a whole. You can do both, and you can take care of people as well as make money, you don't need to step, scratch, claw and destroy everything in your path to the top. I try to focus my life in that effort, and I respect places like Whole Foods and Costco, who's business models actually PAY for health care for their employees and treat their employees well. It can be done, it should be done, it should not be a requirement, but our focus as a society has to change from one of money to one of respect. We are all capitalists in our hearts, it was how our country was founded and how it flourished. But, in the same breath, we also have a social responsibility to do the right thing in looking towards the future, while not forgetting our past.

:2cents:

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Chrome,

I do not feel sorry for people who complain about "poverty" especially when the impovershed can do something about it. This is America. Go get a job. Is that too much to ask?

The "personal responsibility" argument does not properly account for environmental influences. In other words, people have to be taught responsibility before you can hold them responsible.

You have the benefit of being raised in the way that you have been. You know A, B and C because you have seen A, B and C and have been around A, B and C. Many other people do not have that benefit. It is hard for them to see B and C if A is all they have ever known.

Also, (I'm sure chomerics is already typing this) many people hold a job, or several jobs, and are still below the poverty line.

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Chrome,

I do not feel sorry for people who complain about "poverty" especially when the impovershed can do something about it. This is America. Go get a job. Is that too much to ask?

That is your solution? You do realize that there are people working three jobs and still are below the poverty line right? you do realize that poor does not equal lazy right? You do realize that a person over 80 can not physically work right? What about them? Do you agree with what I posted above and the Draconian measures Nazi Germany took to rid their population of elderly, sick and retarded?

Just because YOU had some things work out your way, and I have had things work out my way does not mean we are any better then the person who is working three jobs. The quality of a person is based not on the size of his wallet, but on his ACTIONS. I have known a hell of a lot of poor people that I have respect for, and their money means nothing to me, what they do as a person is what matters. I have known rich people who I have no respect for because they are scumbags, and would sell their own mother if they could get a nice 7% ROI over two years.

Everyone likes money, but it is not what life is about, life is about being the best person you can be and contributing to society in the best way possible. It is not about stepping on everyone on the climb to the top, but about making it based on your hard work and drive. Some people are not lucky in life, but they do work hard and they do contribute to society as well. It is our responsibility as a country to make sure these people are not starving on the street. it is why we have SSI in place, and it is why SOME social programs are good. keeping people off the street is a net benefit to society in many different ways. The opportunity costs of poverty need to be re-evaluated and looked at, because sometimes removing people from federally subsidized programs costs society a heck of a lot more in the long run. It is something that needs to be quantified, and researched. But is is an area that we should not ignore, and use catch phrases like "get a job you lazy bum", because sometimes the 80 year old man is not a "lazy bum", he just does not have the physical capability to work any more.

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Chomerics,

Don't know where you're getting your statistics, but the idea that 48% of the elderly would be impoverished if not for Social Security is RIDICULOUS. The vast majority of "poor" people in this country aren't old, but young. In fact, the distribution always shows that "poverty" isn't a ossified condition at all, because the older you get, the richer you get. I'm borderline poor, but I'm still young and single.

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before you make a fool out of yourself maybe you should collect some data that supports your arguements. I am willing to bet that you have never been to a "third world" country. Our poverty problems don't compare to what most of those countries are going through.

Oh, yeah?

Ask this guy...

16_PJ01.jpg

I love the idea that says, hey our homeless problem isn't as bad as their homeless problem therefore we have no homeless problem, and we have no poverty. sad, just plain sad.

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Chomerics,

Don't know where you're getting your statistics, but the idea that 48% of the elderly would be impoverished if not for Social Security is RIDICULOUS. The vast majority of "poor" people in this country aren't old, but young. In fact, the distribution always shows that "poverty" isn't a ossified condition at all, because the older you get, the richer you get. I'm borderline poor, but I'm still young and single.

That was from the BLS I believe, I will see if I can dig it up, but I just came across it a few days ago. . .

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Then how can poor people from other countries some how become succesful yet the poor here can not.

Look at people who comeover from China and India and how poor they are, yet now some are Dr's or own their own companies etc...

Exceptions to the rules should never be taken as the norm, yet another logical breakdown.

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Oh, yeah?

Ask this guy...

16_PJ01.jpg

I love the idea that says, hey our homeless problem isn't as bad as their homeless problem therefore we have no homeless problem, and we have no poverty. sad, just plain sad.

it could be followed with

"Lets spend BILLIONS more on stuff outside of the nation and its citizens needs"

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I pulled a report out for Asbury and decided to not post it. It was a worldwide graph on poverty worldwide. Do you know what the standard was in defining true worldwide poverty?

When someone makes less than a dollar a month. America does not even register on this report.

Asbury, you want to whine about poverty? Go to Africa or the Middle East. Get you sea legs and after you are done seeing what poverty really is, come back to me and complain about people that can not get off the ass and work.

OUT.

LOL, Fine, then what is the "richest" nation in the world doing about world poverty! Oh, let me see we are spending $400 billion in defense and we are feeding our cows more grain per year than most 3rd world nations are able to feed their people. GGGRRRRRRR don't even get me started!

Try reading "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger" by Sider. See you think that I'm only interested in the American poor, hardly, my case only starts here and then looks abroad. You simply want to say, hey I'm not poor, I'm not lazy, ergo everyone who is poor is lazy. shame shame shame.

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Oh, yeah?

Ask this guy...

16_PJ01.jpg

I love the idea that says, hey our homeless problem isn't as bad as their homeless problem therefore we have no homeless problem, and we have no poverty. sad, just plain sad.

Think he could get a warehouse job?

What does the city have to do with this guy sleeping on a bench?

Stand up....walk to the unemployment office.....work.

What does this have to do with ABC's?

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Think he could get a warehouse job?

What does the city have to do with this guy sleeping on a bench?

Stand up....walk to the unemployment office.....work.

What does this have to do with ABC's?

What are some questions asked in almost every job interview

Do you have a permanent address?

Do you have reliable transportation?

Would you employ someone without a permanant address? No

Would you employ someone without reliable transportation? No

Would you employ a homeless person? No

Yet he's supposed to get a job! LOL get REAL. Very few places are hiring homeless because they aren't good for business. They are dirty, they stink, and they have usually have big time problems that can't be fixed by simply going to the unemployment office.

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Chomerics,

Don't know where you're getting your statistics, but the idea that 48% of the elderly would be impoverished if not for Social Security is RIDICULOUS. The vast majority of "poor" people in this country aren't old, but young. In fact, the distribution always shows that "poverty" isn't a ossified condition at all, because the older you get, the richer you get. I'm borderline poor, but I'm still young and single.

It was from the CBPP. . .

http://www.cbpp.org/2-24-05socsec.htm

Correction, it was not 48%, but 46.8%.

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Exceptions to the rules should never be taken as the norm, yet another logical breakdown.

Then how do you explain, how can people who are poorer then anyone we have in the states make it to this country and suceed??

For those who feel we need to pretty much are suggesting we need to support our own poor population have you ever stepped foot in a country like India, like Bolivia, where some people live in a little hut with nothing, yet are out and about all day long trying to make ends meet? I witnessed little kids, selling whatever they can just to get by, they do not sit in a place built by the government or take food from the government they are doing it themselves and that mentality is created from the start.

If we spoon fed our poor population in the states then we are just enabling them to continue to be what they are not and not what they can become.

It embarasses me to see immagrants from all other nations but our poor to shame when it comes to mentaliy and work ethic.

India is one of the poorest countries in the world and it is hard to see a child, or anyone just sitting in waiting.

How do you we started the US we did not ask for anything from our small government, people worked in the fields, and made things work, they worked hard did not sit on their ass and wait for something.

Everyone is wondering why other countries are going to pass us in education, technology, innovation, etc..... It is because mentality and effort thats it that is all it is. Kids do bad in school, well most likely they are trying hard enough or feel they are entitled, well they are not and should never feel like that.

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Chomerics,

Don't know where you're getting your statistics, but the idea that 48% of the elderly would be impoverished if not for Social Security is RIDICULOUS. The vast majority of "poor" people in this country aren't old, but young. In fact, the distribution always shows that "poverty" isn't a ossified condition at all, because the older you get, the richer you get. I'm borderline poor, but I'm still young and single.

It is not ridiculous at all. What is ridiculous is not acknowledging that Social Security is a safety net, not a full pension.

The AVERAGE net worth goes up with age, but that average only reflects that some of the elderly are very, very wealthy, a lot are comfortable, but millions upon millions of others are borderline impoverished.

People who can no longer work.

The Social Security safety net ensures that the elderly do not end up on the street. It has been a huge boon to the economic and political stability of this country.

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It is not ridiculous at all. What is ridiculous is not acknowledging that Social Security is a safety net, not a full pension.

The AVERAGE net worth goes up with age, but that average only reflects that some of the elderly are very, very wealthy, a lot are comfortable, but millions upon millions of others are borderline impoverished.

People who can no longer work.

The Social Security safety net ensures that the elderly do not end up on the street. It has been a huge boon to the economic and political stability of this country.

That is why everyone of age gets Social Security. No matter their economic status. Because the rich need a safety net......

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Then how do you explain, how can people who are poorer then anyone we have in the states make it to this country and suceed??

For those who feel we need to pretty much are suggesting we need to support our own poor population have you ever stepped foot in a country like India, like Bolivia, where some people live in a little hut with nothing, yet are out and about all day long trying to make ends meet? I witnessed little kids, selling whatever they can just to get by, they do not sit in a place built by the government or take food from the government they are doing it themselves and that mentality is created from the start.

If we spoon fed our poor population in the states then we are just enabling them to continue to be what they are not and not what they can become.

Do you know why there are so many starving kids on the street in India and other third world countries?

The primary reason is because they don't have social security in those countries, so parents need to have lots of kids to make sure that they will be taken care of when they get old and don't starve. And the cycle continues with every impoverished generation.

Not all social programs are "handouts to lazy people."

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That is why everyone of age gets Social Security. No matter their economic status. Because the rich need a safety net......

That is how the program was made palatable to the rich and middle class, who often don't care all that much whether the guy who shined their shoes for the past 50 years starves in the street when he can no longer work.

Everyone pays in to Social Security, everyone collects out when it is their time. Nothing wrong with that.

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Do you know why there are so many starving kids on the street in India and other third world countries?

The primary reason is because they don't have social security in those countries, so parents need to have lots of kids to make sure that they will be taken care of when they get old and don't starve. And the cycle continues with every impoverished generation.

Not all social programs are "handouts to lazy people."

I never said all, just some do, and it seems you agree. There is a sense of entitlement and you see it with kids today, heck I see it with kids out of college. They feel since I have x degree I should be making $50K a year with no experience :doh:

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