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I would like to clarify something (GUTTING this team)


kleese

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I think we just need a NEW GM who understands how to select players that have talent, and how to offer contracts that don't divide the team because of the disparity. We are lucky Dockery even signed for one year after seeing Samuels' and Jansen's contracts. We let Pierce, Smoot and Clark go because of a FEW dollars(there wasn't that much of a divide between sides) and then broke the bank on Archuleta and Carter. Does anyone believe we would not have been better if we had kept those three and passed on AA and AC?Also, AP,FS, and RC would have been in the system for another year, not trying to learn it and their position. None of the guys we let go wanted top dollar, just more than we were paying other people on the team. It sends a bad message to the players when you argue over a few dollars and let someone go, then bring in questionable free agents and pay them premier money. We could wittle a couple players a year with high salaries off the team without cleaning house. Does ANYONE believe MB should be making 7Million a year?? Gibbs screwed up with his financial plan for the team, because it was all hypocrisy. Go ahead, burn me but it's true. He swept players out because he wanted a structured, tiered system, then brought in F.A.'s and blew up his own plan.

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I'm talking about the addition of Todd Collins for the simple reason that he already knows the Saunders philosophy. And that's exactly what I meant by philosophy, the offensive philosophy of this team and the addition of so many new players, it takes time. Not to mention that the players that were already here had to learn it all as well.

This was not the vibe coming from the Skins. The vibe was that they were ready to make a run this year. Todd Collins is a backup and has never taken a snap and barring injury probably never will. If they were rebuilding, then why start Brunell. Do you really think Mark Brunell is the future of the Redskins? Is he going to win it all at 38 like Elway did? Why throw away draft picks for Brandon Lloyd and T.J. Duckett? Those are the things you do when you are in a position to make a run, not during a rebuild.

A huge revamping is the last thing this team needs, we need some stability first. This organization tries something new every year and wonders why nothing works. Our GM wants immediate gratification and won't settle for allowing players to get comfortable in any system. We have some of the best players on the market, but they need time to adjust to all of the offensive changes.

Well it was Gibbs that hired Sanders and yielded control, so you can't blame Cerrato or Snyder for that move. But Cerrato does suck. Can you name one good move he has made since he got here? Champ Bailey and a 2nd for Clinton Portis? I know Bailey wanted to leave(and you wonder why) but you've got to get more than that for the best cover corner in the league. Portis is good, but how many other backs in the league can do what he does, and how many other corners in the league can do what Bailey does? The deal should have been Portis for Bailey straight up or Portis for a 2nd. A third string back for a third round pick? Cerrato can't negotiate. Its also pretty clear he is pretty poor at evaluating talent. The Skssn migth be successful with Gibbs but they need an FO that is better at talent evaluation and will have the courage to say no, and not throwaway the draft every year.

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Kleese, wow, just wow. Get a hobby or something else to do during football season. First of all, this is not an old team by any stretch, and to back that up, look at WR/RB/TE/LB/S, for starters. Are Portis, Betts, Lloyd, Moss, ARE, Cooley, Rocky, Marcus/Sean Taylor/Arch old? Secondly, gutting the team, will leave us with ZERO, because of all the cap hits we'd take, so not only would we not be able to even make decent trades, we'd have to cut them out-right with nothing in return.

Please keep assinine thoughts like this to yourself.

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gutting the team like that will only make it worse. We need to draft and work on certain spots, but Moss, randle el, and others r keepers period. The coaching needs to stay and gel. Consistency is what people need to build, We cannot get rid of everyone every time things go wrong, that's the mistake we have made since the 90s. The coaches r fine. Give them time. Put pressure on them to make changes. don't accept failure. Make them either discipline or replace problem players.

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i think we should keep the majority of this team intact. i think brunell should be cut , jason should be the starter and collins the backup. draft a young qb project in the late rounds. rocky should start and we should draft a stud de and a cb. the rest should be adding depth at oline. this team will be fine once jason gets about 20 starts in this league, thats why i think we need to start him now so in 08 we will be a very good team for a long time.

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...If this team continues down this road the rest of this season, I 100% believe we should gut this staff and roster COMPLETELY.

Gibbs gone.

Williams gone.

Saunders gone.

Trade Portis, Moss, Jansen, Samuels, Washington, etc.... I am DEAD serious about it too. I'd like to make this roster look as much like an expansion team as possible...

If Dan Snyder reads this he may offer you a job soon.

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its these type of fans that dont allow the skins to progress.. they see bad things going on and want changes immediately.. i know if we were 6-1 instead of 2-5, we would be talking about how gibbs has done no wrong..

how bout allow gibbs to stay as HC and bringin in a Gm to handle the duties? if suppose this year, we make a miracoulous comeback into the palyoffs or next year this team looks good with JC at the helm what are you gonna say? the onyl thing this team needs is a franchise qb. after that everything falls into place.. ask any of the powers in this league

indy, NE, philly (bad season with TO), seattle, cincy, SD(rivers is their franchise qb finally), giants

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Stability? If we go 6-10, 10-6, 6-10 that's NOT stability to me. That means that Gibbs gave it a good run, but came up short. Way short.

And let's not forget-- we need to change our entire organizational philosophy. "Stability" means staying the course-- which for the Redskins means trading picks, and going after the Archuleta's of the world. I have NO doubt that if we keep this staff, we will continue to make those kinds of moves. I will not be surprised ONE BIT if we trade our 1st rounder before the draft next year.

If we end this season as a "bad" football team, then I believe a gutting is in order. If we end it as a so-so team, then perhaps we can keep it together a bit longer and see if some tweaking won't do the trick. But if this winds up being a 3-13/4-12 type season, then I see NO reason why we should "stay the course."

I am talking stability with the coaching staff. I do agree with you in that the philosophy of trading/wasting draft picks needs to change. We also need to stop signing big name free agents to large contracts. What I feel we should do is keep the coaches we have, and the core players that we have. New coaches means new offenses/defenses. New players means they have to learn the new playbooks and then we are right back where we started.

I believe Gibbs' successor will either be Williams or Saunders, so why not continue to keep them here so we have stability and are not having to completely revamp a talented team?

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indy, NE, philly (bad season with TO), seattle, cincy, SD(rivers is their franchise qb finally), giants

Upper echelon -perennial- contenders(IMO):

NE, Indy, Pit, Philly, Den (with some of the above teams and Carolina poised to join them)

All have above average to great players at QB (exception: Den).

All have above average to great defenses.

All have a solid front office that builds through the draft.

Want the Redskins to contend? See above.

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Okay the draft has its place but it is not the answear to all questions there are other roots ... for example udfas can contribute...

Kurt Warner two time MVP was he drafted ? Priest Holmes, Rod Smith, Antonio Gates, Jake Delhomme, Adam Vinatieri, Adewale Ogunleye, Willie Parker, Will Demps, Ryan Clark, Jeff Saturday (2005 pro bowl centre - Colts) Heck Warran Moon is the fist undrafted QB in the HOF.

There are players who were flat out busts switch teams and become stars Santana for one I know there are exceptions to every rule but I grow sick of the standard mantra we must build throught the draft Bobby Bethard and before him George Allen never had a draft pick they couldn't trade . Yes Art Monk, Mark May and Darrell Green were all 1st round picks in Gibbs V1 but they were the only 1st round picks we had in the 80s.

You want to gut the team and rebuild with draft picks and rookies go right ahead and you may well see the definition of ugly and you thought this season was bad.

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Okay the draft has its place but it is not the answear to all questions there are other roots ... for example udfas can contribute...

Kurt Warner two time MVP was he drafted ? Priest Holmes, Rod Smith, Antonio Gates, Jake Delhomme, Adam Vinatieri, Adewale Ogunleye, Willie Parker, Will Demps, Ryan Clark, Jeff Saturday (2005 pro bowl centre - Colts) Heck Warran Moon is the fist undrafted QB in the HOF.

You've found a dozen players out of thousands of street free agents who never saw a snap outside of training camp, much less preseason. I'll take the much better odds of the seven round draft with an emphasis on improved scouting.

I agree this much: if the Skins keep whiffing on draft pick trades and mega-deal contracts for bums, we will become more familiar with the UFA market.

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Philly may build through the draft but look at the roster and you think they are a home grown team which is primarly true but the reason they are good is not because they draft well because that helps but a whole raft of issues.

To say Philly drafts well and have been good over the last few years therefore to be good you have to draft well and thats it, you may as well say Orrios taste good because they a brown with white stuff in the middle therefore anything brown with a white centre tastes good ....

Its not where you get the players from it is what you do with them that counts ... lets just look at the Eagles drafting shall we..

2000 0/7 remain

2001 2/6 backups

2002 4/8 - excellent year for them especially the secondary

2003 2 /6

2004 3/10

2005 6/11 - Although this could be another good year for them

Overall 17/48 picks over the last 5 of 6 years actually are still on the 56 man roster.

Compared to us thats great plus they have the 2006 picks still there and the odd UFDA but they flesh the team and find talent everywhere like including FA Jon Runyan David Akers, Darren Howard, Dante Stallworth, Jenvon Kerse, Jeff Garcia, Shawn Barber etc

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You've found a dozen players out of thousands of street free agents who never saw a snap outside of training camp, much less preseason. I'll take the much better odds of the seven round draft with an emphasis on improved scouting.

I agree this much: if the Skins keep whiffing on draft pick trades and mega-deal contracts for bums, we will become more familiar with the UFA market.

The draft is a crap shoot essentially for every star there are 10 "bums" .

It is also kind of unkind of you to call the likes of Cliton Portis and Santana Moss the franchises leading single season reciver and rusher bums as they both came as those draft pick trades (abit inderectly in the case of Moss as a Moss/Coles/2003 1st round pick trade).

I could also give you a list of draft picks from teams other than us that were out of the leauge within 4 years ...

Those were just a bunch of names of UFDAs I could find there are a hell of a lot more if I look hard enough and FA who shine in their second or thrid stops in the NFL.

The draft is an answer to find talent not the only one.

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I think a bit too soon to send the whole team packing but I love the concept. If the team did not come back next year with anything but a serious run at the Superbowl I would think it was a great idea. I would like to see how this team plays, understanding the offensive system with a QB who can run it. Next year will tell us alot. I was hoping we would do what Kleese suggests in the mid to late 1990's.

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The draft is a crap shoot essentially for every star there are 10 "bums" .

It is also kind of unkind of you to call the likes of Cliton Portis and Santana Moss the franchises leading single season reciver and rusher bums as they both came as those draft pick trades (abit inderectly in the case of Moss as a Moss/Coles/2003 1st round pick trade).

I could also give you a list of draft picks from teams other than us that were out of the leauge within 4 years ...

Those were just a bunch of names of UFDAs I could find there are a hell of a lot more if I look hard enough and FA who shine in their second or thrid stops in the NFL.

The draft is an answer to find talent not the only one.

Never said it was but the odds are exponentially better to find a starter via the draft than the UFA leftovers.

Not impossible, just FAR more likely.

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First of all we need:

- a good GM

- revamp the Oline and Dline (keep R. Thomas, C. Griff, D. Evans, Golston)

- Force MB into retirement or cut him.

- sign Duckett to a contract then trade him for a draft pick (maybe a 5th rounder)

- keep G. Williams and A. Saunders

- FIRE those blasted scouts!!!

- cut Holdman, Archuleta, Carter, K. Wright, M. Rumph.

and we need a good team:laugh:

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Gibbs gone.

Williams gone.

Saunders gone.

Trade Portis, Moss, Jansen, Samuels, Washington, etc.... I am DEAD serious about it too. I'd like to make this roster look as much like an expansion team as possible.

Kleese, is it ganja harvest season in OK? If so smoke some...or stop smoking so much:silly:

Agreed, this team needs consistency, which JUST REVAMPED for heaven's sake. We need to pick some O-Lineman and D-Lineman next draft...we'll be fine.

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It is also kind of unkind of you to call the likes of Cliton Portis and Santana Moss the franchises leading single season reciver and rusher bums as they both came as those draft pick trades (abit inderectly in the case of Moss as a Moss/Coles/2003 1st round pick trade).

:rolleyes:

Yes, Moss and Portis are exactly who I mean when I refer to mega-deal contracts for bums.

You rock :notworthy

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