illone Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Network marketing is still viable, but you have to be at the right place at the right time. The window for success is short. MLM's, which are successful, undergo an exponential growth spurt very early on. If you are there at the beginning, and are willing to work very long, hard days, and face a lot of rejection, you can cash in. However, there's no better success rate there, IMO, then there is in starting a small business. More will fail then will succeed. The benefit that I have discovered is that Network marketing requires very little start up capitol opposed to a small business. $500 opposed to $50K is fairly substantial, which further explains the number of people signing up for this type of business. Another area I've checked out is franchising. It's viable, but again expensive. The failure rate of ANY business is very high, though, especially the first five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 not sure what you're referring to. I quoted the book as saying that most of the millionaires in this country are service business owners. From that I deduced that strickly from a numbers point of view, that it's more likely to become a millionaire if one was to own a service business. simple logic here. The comparrison the book gave about the saving habits of an SB owner vs. doctors was based on the authors experience as a financial manager. Not of my opinion. I agree with you that it doesn't matter what you do for a living or how much you make, It's how much you save that counts. you better get busy on that BMI, I'm trying to get below 26 I believe a statement of "more likely" would require a out of small business owners are millionaires and not a raw most of the millionaires are small business owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 The benefit that I have discovered is that Network marketing requires very little start up capitol opposed to a small business. $500 opposed to $50K is fairly substantial, which further explains the number of people signing up for this type of business.Another area I've checked out is franchising. It's viable, but again expensive. The failure rate of ANY business is very high, though, especially the first five years. illone, I tried a healthfood mlm, a product that I used regularly, a good product. The problem that I had with the business is that besides detiorating your credibility, it was hard for me to stomach that mathematically at least 95% of the people I would be encouraging to "buy in" would fail. I know that's their perogative, I just didn't like it. Many businesses can be started for way less than $50K. Marriot Sr. started with a hot dog stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 illone, I tried a healthfood mlm, a product that I used regularly, a good product. The problem that I had with the business is that besides detiorating your credibility, it was hard for me to stomach that mathematically at least 95% of the people I would be encouraging to "buy in" would fail. I know that's their perogative, I just didn't like it.Many businesses can be started for way less than $50K. Marriot Sr. started with a hot dog stand. Yea, the failure statistics are alarming to say the least. What I am finding is that most people treat MLM as a get rich quick scheme, and not an actual business. It's the old 95/5 rule. 5% of the consultants are making 95% of the money. Thing is, though, this is true in almost all facets of business, not just MLM. Which company were you invloved with, Herba Life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Yea, the failure statistics are alarming to say the least. What I am finding is that most people treat MLM as a get rich quick scheme, and not an actual business. It's the old 95/5 rule. 5% of the consultants are making 95% of the money. Thing is, though, this is true in almost all facets of business, not just MLM.Which company were you invloved with, Herba Life? cell tech. my wife is not very actively working with nikken with some of the ladies at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 not sure what you're referring to. I quoted the book as saying that most of the millionaires in this country are service business owners. From that I deduced that strickly from a numbers point of view, that it's more likely to become a millionaire if one was to own a service business. simple logic here. Not trying to squabble, but I think this is faulty logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Not trying to squabble, but I think this is faulty logic. It could be, redskins diehard pointed it out. several meanings could be derived from my statement so I'll withdraw it. I hate being wrong :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 It could be, redskins diehard pointed it out. several meanings could be derived from my statement so I'll withdraw it. I hate being wrong :laugh: Not me, I love being wrong! :laugh: :laugh: *cue the critics* :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I'm lucky enough to still have my grandparents on my moms side. They're in their mid nineties and lived through the depression. My grandad was fortunate enough to have worked in the mail room for GM during that time. He really put it in perspective for me when I was complaining about my job at a family function once. Although he's stoic Michigander, he got as hot as I've ever seen him.He knew many friends and relatives who wanted work, any work, in the worst way. He told me you "You don't know the abject loss of pride and self that a man goes through when he can't feed himself or his family. When you've seen a grown man crying over a lack of work, any complaints you have about your job, seem ridiculously selfish. It's a privelege to have a job, and remember that you're not always working for yourself, but for your family and the ones you love." Great post and thanks for passing on the wisdom of your grandfather. It really puts things in perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 This describes someone in extreme denial, or the owner of a big company:laugh:No matter what you do, even if you love doing it, you are trading time for money by working for someone else. That isn't the definition of freedom. Personal independence means you are free to work when you want/need and take a vacation when you please without asking permission for it. Hmmm..... I love what I do as a software engineer for Lockheed Martin. I work from home if I want, or I can go into the office if I want. I can start work at 8:00 a.m., or 10:00 a.m., or noon, or whatever - so long as I put in 40 hours a week. If I want to take off in the middle of the day to go to the car wash, or pick up new videos anytime on Tuesday when they first come out at Blockbuster, I do so. Sure, I'm sometimes constrained by teleconferences, but rarely do those go past an hour and I usually only have a couple of those a week. Take vacation when I want? Almost always. My biggest problem is burning 4 weeks of vacation a year. Most years I just bank some of it (allowed to bank up to 10 weeks). This past weekend I drove to Key West on the spur of the moment. I took off Friday without burning any vacation because I have the freedom to work 4 10-hour days if I want. I've got a 401K that guarantees 50% match up to 8% of my salary (pre-tax). And while Lockheed recently did away with their pension, I'm grandfathered in. So as long as the company doesn't go bankrupt (extremely unlikely), I'll be collecting a pension when I retire. So let me ask you again? Do I or don't I have financial freedom according to your definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Financial freedom can come only when your use-value for things you do not have is 0 (such a person, assuming he/she is rational, would enter into NO transactions). If someone always wants "more", financial freedom is impossible. It is an oxymoron to say I want more and also claim that I'm financially free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 This is a great thread. I look at things not so much from the standpoint of money but rather of time...after all, they're the same thing. Therefore for me, financial freedom has always meant a return to the days when my time was my own to do with as I pleased. Once I finish school and get started with my new career, the planning starts for me to have my own consulting business. I also can't wait to get back to my real estate investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I took the same thing as you from the book. Spend less than you make, a fairly simple approach if you ask me. That'll just get you to the point were you don't NEED to earn new income. You can just consume your savings. That is, if I can live on 20K a year but make 100K, I now can live about 4 years with no new income (I'm leaving out things such as taxes and time-preferences here). Thing is, the mentallity to have low-time preferences, high enjoyment from actually providing value and the self-discipline to live below ones means, is probably more prevelent among entrepenuer-types. I think service businesses tend to be less capital-intensive and tend to be very easy to start (I know mine was). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I'm not dodging any point. If a small business owner buys a buncha new Mercedes every year, he's gonna not be truly rich, right? If a salaried attorney lives like a Scotsman, he is going to get rich, right. So what makes you truly rich then, according to your book - what you do for a living or how much you spend compared to how much you make? ps - I wish I was as physically fit according to my doctor's bodymass index formula as I am financially fit according to that financial fitness formula. :laugh: Wealth is not pieces of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Not trying to squabble, but I think this is faulty logic. A person who has the desire to start his/her own business probably values being a millioniare more than average. That is, he/she tends not to let other desires get in the way (for instance, such a person may have a lower use-value for liesure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Wealth is not pieces of paper. I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 A person who has the desire to start his/her own business probably values being a millioniare more than average. That is, he/she tends not to let other desires get in the way (for instance, such a person may have a lower use-value for liesure). You may be right. Of course, the corrolary is not that small business is the way to get wealthy per se, but rather that those who have the personality that is likely to lead to wealth often are the types that choose to start small businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 So let me ask you again? Do I or don't I have financial freedom according to your definition? Well, financial freedom as I described it was the ability to continue your current lifestyle without continuing to work. So by that definition I would assume you are not financially free. I would say you have a great JOB, but no definitely not free. Could you quit tomorrow and still pay all your bills and take four weeks of vacation a year without worrying about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Wealth is not pieces of paper. Trust Deeds are pieces of paper:laugh: The more of those you have the more wealth you can create;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 Here is some information I've found to be useful in my search for financial freedom: http://www.paulzanepilzer.com/tnm.htm Anyone else know who this guy is? He predicted the dot com boom, and is now predicting health and wellness to be a trillion dollar industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Great post and thanks for passing on the wisdom of your grandfather. It really puts things in perspective. I have to admit my post really doesn't fit the way the thread wound up turning. But it's advice I've taken, and I've been pretty happy as a working man. Everybody can't be "Financially Free" by the definitions that are being propogated here. There are a multitude of reasons why, but there is no reason why everyone can't be happy with what they're doing. For me, like many others, leaving work at five and not having to think about it for the rest of the night is a freedom in itself. It's one I traded money to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Personal independence means you are free to work when you want/need and take a vacation when you please without asking permission for it. You just described my life to a t. Open your own business AND be good at what you do. It takes both with a whole lotta luck sprinkled on top to realize that dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Bump for some good off-season conversation. As an update, I am now 100% self-employed. I just got done re-reading this entire thread and for those of you who recommended being self-employed, you were exactly right. And no, I'm not financially free...... yet. I think I am well on my way, though, as things change when you are in business for yourself. The freedom I do experience on a daily basis has to do with the ability to wake up and walk into my office in my boxers, and work on whatever I decide, not someone else. I strongly believe this mentality fuels more productivity and will eventually enable me to learn more about money and how to build wealth. It's a great feeling. For those interested I've decided to branch out further in the financial services realm. I got my Life and Health Insurance License, and am setup with a small local bank for Mortgages. I'd been in the Mortgage business for the past 6 years, but splitting the deal (read: working for someone else) with a broker. Basically I can finance your home, sell you life insurance and protect your retirement with an Annuity. Fixed annuities only, though. Variable Annuties require a securities license that I'm not interested in at the moment. Anyways, I thought this was pretty good discussion and deserved a bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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