Democrats plan to add more early states in presidential primaries upset little NH

[dreamingwolf]

I think Bang said something about people being group oriented. His videos rock.

[Teller]

You did win... full control in fact. It's been great seeing all the screw ups and watching the GOP blame the dems for them while they sit completely out of power. History will not be kind, neither will November.

The GOP did nothing while holding full control that it promised. They never even made a serious push against abortion. It's really pathetic how they all turned out to be completely full of **** on all their major issues. Abortion, immigration, spending, and morality. I wonder how much more evidence the "moral majority" will need before they realize they don't have a political party and sink the GOP. One thing is certain, the GOP hold on congress won't match the dems 40 years.

Destino, you make a number of valid points here. I am disappointed that there was no major social security reform. I am disappointed that there has been no resolution to the illegal immigration issue. I am disappointed overall that this administration hasn't accomplished more domestically.

I see this as a tale of two terms. I think Bush did an amazing job in his first term. I felt that we had the strongest possible leadership under very trying circumstances. His second term, I fully admit, has been a huge disappointment. Really, the only thing I have to be VERY thankful for is two Supreme Court justices.

However, we all go at each other's throats all the time in political threads. I think it was pretty clear that we were all having a good time, and ALL of us until this post were laughing at ourselves (which I think we could all do more of, BTW).

All I'm saying is take some things with a grain of salt. I know your position, and I respect it despite disagreeing with it. I just don't think everything has to be serious as a funeral all the time.

Let's go down to the ice cream shop on the corner. I'll buy you a double scoop of sense of humor. j/k

[praise_gibbs]

I know what I believe, I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe.. I believe what I believe is right.---Dubya.

If I answer questions everytime you ask one, expectations would be high. And as you know, I like to keep expectations low.---Dubya

:whew: I feel safe already.

I must admit, Kerry is not the best of candidates but, he has to be better than a man with an IQ of 091. I know this is a 'debunked myth' but, I have yet to find a place where they give his real IQ. Hopefully by posting this, that will get answered. In the meantime, Dubya has the lowest IQ of every single president. His father is not too far off. He has yet to bring forth any of his issues as he promised.

1. Initiating a war of aggression against a nation that posed no immediate threat to the U.S. -- a war that has needlessly killed 2500 Americans and maimed and damaged over 20,000 more, while killing between 50-100,000 innocent Iraqi men, women and children.

2. Lying and organizing a conspiracy to trick the American people and the U.S. Congress into approving an unnecessary and illegal war.

3. Approving and encouraging, in violation of U.S. and international law, the use of torture, kidnapping and rendering of prisoners of war captured in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the course of the so- called War on Terror.

4. Illegally stripping the right of citizenship and the protections of the constitution from American citizens, denying them the fundamental right to have their cases heard in a court, to hear the charges against them, to be judged in a public court by a jury of their peers, and to have access to a lawyer.

5. Authorizing the spying on American citizens and their communications by the National Security Agency and other U.S. police and intelligence agencies, in violation of the First and Fourth Amendments and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

6. Obstructing investigation into and covering up knowledge of the deliberate exposing of the identity of a U.S. CIA undercover operative, and possibly conspiring in that initial outing itself.

7. Obstructing the investigation into the 9-11 attacks and lying to investigators from the Congress and the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission -- actions that come perilously close to treason.

8. Violating the due process and other constitutional rights of thousands of citizens and legal residents by rounding them up and disappearing or deporting them without hearings.

9. Abuse of power, undermining of the constitution and violating the presidential oath of office by deliberately refusing to administer over 750 acts duly passed into law by the Congress -- actions which if left unchallenged would make the Congress a vestigial body, and the president a dictator.

10. Criminal negligence in failing to provide American troops with adequate armor before sending them into a war of choice, criminal negligence in going to war against a weak, third-world nation without any planning for post-war occupation and reconstruction, criminal negligence in failing to respond to a known and growing crisis in the storm-blasted city of New Orleans, and criminal negligence in failing to act, and in fact in actively obstructing efforts by other countries and American state governments, to deal with the looming crisis of global warming.

I do not hate Dubya because I am a Dem... I hate Dubya because he is a lie, cheat, and does not finish what he starts ( Afghanistan) nor does he admit to his mistakes ( Iraq).

[Teller]

I know what I believe, I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe.. I believe what I believe is right.---Dubya.

If I answer questions everytime you ask one, expectations would be high. And as you know, I like to keep expectations low.---Dubya

:whew: I feel safe already.

I must admit, Kerry is not the best of candidates but, he has to be better than a man with an IQ of 091. I know this is a 'debunked myth' but, I have yet to find a place where they give his real IQ. Hopefully by posting this, that will get answered. In the meantime, Dubya has the lowest IQ of every single president. His father is not too far off. He has yet to bring forth any of his issues as he promised.

1. Initiating a war of aggression against a nation that posed no

immediate threat to the U.S. -- a war that has needlessly killed

2500 Americans and maimed and damaged over 20,000 more, while

killing between 50-100,000 innocent Iraqi men, women and children.

2. Lying and organizing a conspiracy to trick the American people

and the U.S. Congress into approving an unnecessary and illegal war.

3. Approving and encouraging, in violation of U.S. and international

law, the use of torture, kidnapping and rendering of prisoners of

war captured in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the course of the so-

called War on Terror.

4. Illegally stripping the right of citizenship and the protections

of the constitution from American citizens, denying them the

fundamental right to have their cases heard in a court, to hear the

charges against them, to be judged in a public court by a jury of

their peers, and to have access to a lawyer.

5. Authorizing the spying on American citizens and their

communications by the National Security Agency and other U.S. police

and intelligence agencies, in violation of the First and Fourth

Amendments and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

6. Obstructing investigation into and covering up knowledge of the

deliberate exposing of the identity of a U.S. CIA undercover

operative, and possibly conspiring in that initial outing itself.

7. Obstructing the investigation into the 9-11 attacks and lying to

investigators from the Congress and the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission -

- actions that come perilously close to treason.

8. Violating the due process and other constitutional rights of

thousands of citizens and legal residents by rounding them up and

disappearing or deporting them without hearings.

9. Abuse of power, undermining of the constitution and violating the

presidential oath of office by deliberately refusing to administer

over 750 acts duly passed into law by the Congress -- actions which

if left unchallenged would make the Congress a vestigial body, and

the president a dictator.

10. Criminal negligence in failing to provide American troops with

adequate armor before sending them into a war of choice, criminal

negligence in going to war against a weak, third-world nation

without any planning for post-war occupation and reconstruction,

criminal negligence in failing to respond to a known and growing

crisis in the storm-blasted city of New Orleans, and criminal

negligence in failing to act, and in fact in actively obstructing

efforts by other countries and American state governments, to deal

with the looming crisis of global warming.

I do not hate Dubya because I am a Dem... I hate Dubya because he is a lie, cheat, and does not finish what he starts ( Afghanistan) nor does he admit to his mistakes ( Iraq).

1) It'll be interesting to see if Syria ends up using WMDs in the current ME conflict, considering one of Saddam's own generals said they were sent there.

2) This is FAR from proven. Open for debate, probably. But FAR from proven.

3) If you want to hold a president responsible for EVERY atrocity committed by EVERY troop on the ground, then EVERY president is guilty of war crimes. And atrocities committed have been swiftly and severely punished, including a friend of mine who is doing 8 years at Leavenworth.

4) Who?

5) Again, open for investigation. FAR from proven.

6) Joe Wilson's "CIA agent wife?" His words. Not mine.

7) Absolute horse****. I can't remember the woman's name, but one of the panelists on the 9-11 commission was a high-ranking official in the Clinton Administration.

8) Link please.

9) What liberal propaganda site did this come from? Or the rest of your list for that matter.

10) Please tell me specifically what Bush screwed up in the NO response. If you can, you'll be the first. Touche on body armor. Course, it makes one wonder why Kerry voted for war but against funding it.

We're done in Afghanistan? We quit and pulled out? News to me. Admit mistakes like Iraq? You'll retract this if Syria uses WMDs, right?

PG, you know I not only respect, but like you. But this is a ripped off argument from a dem propaganda site. Argue with me, fine. But make your own argument.

[Destino]

However, we all go at each other's throats all the time in political threads. I think it was pretty clear that we were all having a good time, and ALL of us until this post were laughing at ourselves (which I think we could all do more of, BTW).

This thread shouldn't be a joke. Adding more states is a major shift and a move clearly intended to weaken a section of the democratic party in terms of influence.

All I'm saying is take some things with a grain of salt. I know your position, and I respect it despite disagreeing with it. I just don't think everything has to be serious as a funeral all the time.

Let's go down to the ice cream shop on the corner. I'll buy you a double scoop of sense of humor. j/k

I have a sense of humor but I just can't help myself sometimes.

[DjTj]

This thread shouldn't be a joke. Adding more states is a major shift and a move clearly intended to weaken a section of the democratic party in terms of influence.

Interesting ... which section of the democratic party do you think it will weaken? The bloggers seem to be under the impression that it will take power out of entrenched/DLC interests, but I'm not sure that's how this will go down...

[Destino]

Interesting ... which section of the democratic party do you think it will weaken? The bloggers seem to be under the impression that it will take power out of entrenched/DLC interests, but I'm not sure that's how this will go down...

The liberal wing will be the hardest hit.

The western states to choose from seem to be Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado. All red states in 2004 and 2000. The southern states Alabama or South Carolina, also red states. The conservative wing of the party is going to get grow in power and so are the minority groups.

[DjTj]

The liberal wing will be the hardest hit.

The western states to choose from seem to be Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado. All red states in 2004 and 2000. The southern states Alabama or South Carolina, also red states. The conservative wing of the party is going to get grow in power and so are the minority groups.

But Iowa and New Hampshire aren't exactly my idea of "liberal wing" states. Adding a southern state might tip things a little bit conservative, but I don't see it making a huge difference. It will definitely increase the Latino and Black voice, which was nonexistent in Iowa and New Hampshire.

My worry is that it will favor big-money candidates because you won't be able to run a campaign just driving a bus around Iowa, which is where Clinton really shocked the world in '92.

[Destino]

But Iowa and New Hampshire aren't exactly my idea of "liberal wing" states. Adding a southern state might tip things a little bit conservative, but I don't see it making a huge difference. It will definitely increase the Latino and Black voice, which was nonexistent in Iowa and New Hampshire.

My worry is that it will favor big-money candidates because you won't be able to run a campaign just driving a bus around Iowa, which is where Clinton really shocked the world in '92.

They aren't liberal wing states to be sure but the states added should be even less liberal. It will be interesting to watch it play out as the big tent has become less and less friendly lately. Good point on the money though I hadn't thought of that.

[dreamingwolf]

Destinio is that a chick in the middle of your sig, cause if it is I want to do here with my magic missle.

[praise_gibbs]

1) It'll be interesting to see if Syria ends up using WMDs in the current ME conflict, considering one of Saddam's own generals said they were sent there.

That remains to be seen but, just because one of his own generals state it.. does that mean it is true?

Anything is possible, it is very possible that they were sent to Syria just the same it is possible that they were not. We do not know for sure.. Is there or is there not a Heaven? That is the beauty of living in the dark of the truth. You do not know and neither do I.

2) This is FAR from proven. Open for debate, probably. But FAR from proven.

That falls under the lines of number 1. I do not know and you do not either. However, it is sure leaning the way of conspiracy, correct sir?

3) If you want to hold a president responsible for EVERY atrocity committed by EVERY troop on the ground, then EVERY president is guilty of war crimes. And atrocities committed have been swiftly and severely punished, including a friend of mine who is doing 8 years at Leavenworth.

Somebody has to be blamed, correct? If a business goes under.. who do you blame, the employees? How about your football team loses, the blame falls on the player?

4) Who?

Not a who but, a what.

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 dubbed the Patriot Act II.

5) Again, open for investigation. FAR from proven.

It is one of those never finished investigations.. I would love to see to play out but, I will be honest with you.. I find it VERY hard to believe this to be false.

6) Joe Wilson's "CIA agent wife?" His words. Not mine.

Interesting. I will have to read up on that.

7) Absolute horse****. I can't remember the woman's name, but one of the panelists on the 9-11 commission was a high-ranking official in the Clinton Administration.

Who? and Where?

8) Link please.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/06/1451239

9) What liberal propaganda site did this come from? Or the rest of your list for that matter.

http://www.alternet.org/story/30350/

10) Please tell me specifically what Bush screwed up in the NO response. If you can, you'll be the first. Touche on body armor. Course, it makes one wonder why Kerry voted for war but against funding it.

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/000619.php

We're done in Afghanistan? We quit and pulled out? News to me. Admit mistakes like Iraq? You'll retract this if Syria uses WMDs, right?

If Syria has WMD's the we are in Iraq because? Are you seriously telling me that Bush went to war knowing about Syria having the WMD? He wanted to go to war regardless it may just so happen that a reason for it "popped-up" by accident.

We are not done in Afghanistan but, are we really focused on it? We got so close and they pulled the majority of the troops to go to Iraq. That is NOT finishing the job in my eyes.

PG, you know I not only respect, but like you. But this is a ripped off argument from a dem propaganda site. Argue with me, fine. But make your own argument.

Touche. Happy now?

[Destino]

Destinio is that a chick in the middle of your sig, cause if it is I want to do here with my magic missle.

go for it dude lol

[dreamingwolf]

go for it dude lol

casted, sadly she made her saving throw

geek out

[Cdowwe]

oh really.. gore wins popular vote and still not in office. the polls are a joke and so is the electoral college

Someone start college and take some Political Science classes this summer?

[techboy]

I think this would be a great idea, except that it will push the Primaries even earlier. I like what I've heard of the British model in this. 6 weeks of campaigning, and it's over. Do we really need 10 months to make up our minds?

[skinz1972]

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/pol?guid=20060721/44c05140_3ca6_1552620060721-1646142022

I hope they do this and Republicans follow suite. NH and IOWA are hardly representive of most of country. It's time there hold on the early presidential primaries are blunted.

NH and iowa get 1st primaries b.c the states are mostly white<<<< it is true.

[dreamingwolf]

NH and iowa get 1st primaries b.c the states are mostly white<<<< it is true.

and everyone at them is dressed like cartman as a ghost on halloween<<<<<<<<<<<< it is true.

[88Comrade2000]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-dems23jul23,1,6119293.story?track=crosspromo&coll=la-news-politics-national&ctrack=1&cset=true

Well it looks like Nevada and South Carolina- of the Democratics can approve the change. Hope the republicans add Nevada too. They already have south carolina after New Hampshire.

The article says the primaries would be scheduled this way:

Iowa- Jan. 14, 2008

Nevada- 5 days later, which would be Jan. 19, 2008

New Hampshire- Jan. 22, 2008

South Carolina- 7 days later, which would be Jan. 29, 2008

It isn't perfect. If it was me, I would do it this way:

Iowa- Jan. 7, 2008

Nevada- Jan. 14, 2008

New Hampshire- Jan. 21, 2008

Michigan- Jan. 28, 2008

South Carolina- Feb. 5, 2008

A week for each state: 1 cornbelt state, 1 western state, 1 midwestern state, 1 new england state, 1 southern state. Borth parties should schedule the primaries/caucuses for the same time.

If you are seriously considering a run for the presidency; you would making your mind now and annouce late this year or early 2007. If you don't by early 2007- it will be too late.

[Thiebear]

It seems like they are making a change that will not have any impact on the end results? Adding 1 state 5th and then going back to business after doesnt appear to be big shift...

[Major Harris]

NH and iowa get 1st primaries b.c the states are mostly white<<<< it is true.

can you, just once, please, come into a thread, and post something that is not racially charged? please.

tell me, how does this help white people......oooohh, we can put more white people leaving the polls on tv!! :party: