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WashingtonTimes: Minutemen not watching over funds


Destino

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A growing number of Minuteman Civil Defense Corps leaders and volunteers are questioning the whereabouts of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of dollars in donations collected in the past 15 months, challenging the organization's leadership over financial accountability.

Many of the group's most active members say they have no idea how much money has been collected as part of its effort to stop illegal entry -- primarily along the U.S.-Mexico border, what it has been spent on or why it has been funneled through a Virginia-based charity headed by conservative Alan Keyes.

Several of the group's top lieutenants have either quit or are threatening to do so, saying requests to Minuteman President Chris Simcox for a financial accounting have been ignored.

Other Minuteman members said money promised for food, fuel, radios, computers, tents, night-vision scopes, binoculars, porta-potties and other necessary equipment and supplies never reached volunteers who have manned observation posts to spot and report illegal border crossers.

Gary Cole, the Minutemen's former national director of operations, was chief liaison to the national press corps during the group's April 2005 border watch in Arizona. He was one of the first to raise questions about MCDC finances. He personally collected "tens of thousands of dollars" in donations during the 30-day border vigil. But despite numerous requests -- many directly to Mr. Simcox -- he was never told how much money had been collected or where it went.

"This movement is much too important to be lost over a question of finances," Mr. Cole said. "We can't demand that the government be held accountable for failing to control the border if we can't hold ourselves accountable for the people's money. It's as simple as that."

Mr. Cole said he was removed by Mr. Simcox as a national director after the April 2005 border campaign "for asking too many questions about the money," but he returned in October and again in April of this year to help locate and man observations posts for the Minuteman border watch in New Mexico.

"I didn't want the thing to fail because it is much too important, so I came back to help out," said Mr. Cole, who spent five months on the Arizona and New Mexico borders living out of a camper on the back of his pickup. "But that doesn't mean my concern went away."

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060719-091346-2988r.htm

This is just pathetic. You can not take donations unless you are set up to track who gave what and when. Not having records of who spent the money is even worse.

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You are completely right what an ill conceived idea...I mean the government has been doing a bang-up job at securing the border.

More so for the minutemen. The continuosly call for BP help in areas where the stream of illegals is fairly low (but where they can park their fat behinds in relative comfort). Due to the rediculous level of exposure the media provides them, the BP is forced to respond in an attempt to appease people like yourself, and higher traffic more remote areas are left unguarded. This is straight from the mouth of a local BP agent.

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More so for the minutemen. The continuosly call for BP help in areas where the stream of illegals is fairly low (but where they can park their fat behinds in relative comfort). Due to the rediculous level of exposure the media provides them, the BP is forced to respond in an attempt to appease people like yourself, and higher traffic more remote areas are left unguarded. This is straight from the mouth of a local BP agent.

I love liberals.

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More so for the minutemen. The continuosly call for BP help in areas where the stream of illegals is fairly low (but where they can park their fat behinds in relative comfort). Due to the rediculous level of exposure the media provides them, the BP is forced to respond in an attempt to appease people like yourself, and higher traffic more remote areas are left unguarded. This is straight from the mouth of a local BP agent.

I've got a real simple fix for that problem. Deputize these folks and just let them shoot these worthless sacks of **** illegally crossing the border. The next group might stop and think for just a second if they have to walk past the bloated, rotting corpses of their countrymen to illegally enter this country. That'd provide a nice solid opportunity for the Minutemen to help them join their brethren in the afterlife.

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I've got a real simple fix for that problem. Deputize these folks and just let them shoot these worthless sacks of **** illegally crossing the border. The next group might stop and think for just a second if they have to walk past the bloated, rotting corpses of their countrymen to illegally enter this country. That'd provide a nice solid opportunity for the Minutemen to help them join their brethren in the afterlife.

All right Mass. I am aware of your views of the situation but just to clarify:

How can someone willing to break the law and suffer immensely in order to take care of their family be considered a sack of **** in your opine. Law breakers and illegals, I can understand that. Hell if I thought you were racist, I could understand that. But such a harsh catagorization of what are regular people in a really bad situation through no cause of their own. How do you figure?

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And when the illegals start carrying weapons and returning fire, we can have our own litttle border war.

:)

Then we can declare war on out second largest trading partner, watch the jobs in the US vanish, and then blame the liberals for it.

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All right Mass. I am aware of your views of the situation but just to clarify:

How can someone willing to break the law and suffer immensely in order to take care of their family be considered a sack of **** in your opine. Law breakers and illegals, I can understand that. Hell if I thought you were racist, I could understand that. But such a harsh catagorization of what are regular people in a really bad situation through no cause of their own. How do you figure?

If those people were worth anything they would have chosen to be born in America. Right?

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Then we can declare war on out second largest trading partner, watch the jobs in the US vanish, and then blame the liberals for it.

No, though actually that doesn't sound like too bad of an outcome. What it would hopefully do is to get the Federal Government off its lazy *ss and maybe actually carrying out one of the eighteen powers they're specifically assigned in the Constitution.

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Let's take a look at your comments there....

How can someone willing to break the law and suffer immensely in order to take care of their family be considered a sack of **** in your opine.

How about exactly BECAUSE they are breaking the law. There is a legal way to go about entering the United States from a foreign country. Regardless of whether it's for tourism, work, education, or permanent relocation. Is it a nice, easy, simple and quick system?.... NOPE. Nor should it be. However, there IS a system in place. These people disregard that system and circumvent it by crossing the border illegally. They do it for a large variety of reasons that are totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. None of those reasons make the action any less illegal or immoral.

If they really find their current situation in Mexico (or whatever other country they're from) so repulsive and cannot find a way to LEGALLY enter the United States, maybe they should think about doing what the colonists in this country did when they decided England wasn't the best fit for them anymore... they solved the problem themselves and thus was the USA born.

Law breakers and illegals, I can understand that. Hell if I thought you were racist, I could understand that. But such a harsh catagorization of what are regular people in a really bad situation through no cause of their own. How do you figure?

These people become law breakers and illegals the moment they cross that border without the proper paperwork and not at an approved checkpoint. They're ALL lawbreakers and illegals. Their motive doesn't change that. I am a bigot. I'll readily admit that. I'm bigoted against non-Americans, morons, criminals, and a host of other groups of people. If that hasn't become totally clear in the six months or so that I've been actively posting here, I'm not sure it ever will be.

Being in a bad situation doesn't justify an illegal act. Being hungry doesn't justify stealing from a store. Being broke doesn't justify robbing a bank. Being unlucky in life does not give a person or family carte blanche to make up the rules for themselves and just ignore whatever laws they want.

Several parts of my family were turned away at Ellis Island in the 1920's. They arrived late enough in the year that the quotas from the area of Germany they were coming from were already full. Some of them went to Canada and eventually LEGALLY came into the US. Others went to Argentina and still live there today. Should they have tried to illegally sneak into the US after being denied admitance? HELL NO!! Just like these people shouldn't be illegally crossing the border today.

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If those people were worth anything they would have chosen to be born in America. Right?

No. If they were worthy of entrance into the United States they would be doing it LEGALLY. Regardless of the amount of time it takes to go through that LEGAL process. The fact that they're willing to illegally enter the US by running the border makes them unworthy of the great things America has to offer in my mind.

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In an effort to try and get this thread back on track....

This is just pathetic. You can not take donations unless you are set up to track who gave what and when. Not having records of who spent the money is even worse.

I'll totally agree with you on that. Whoever is handling the money for the organization needs to be made to account for the funds and should be removed from the group. Unfortunately it's always a concern with groups like the Minutemen where there seems to be a lot of grassroots interest and not a really well put together leadership cadre that reports to the members on a regular basis.

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Several parts of my family were turned away at Ellis Island in the 1920's. They arrived late enough in the year that the quotas from the area of Germany they were coming from were already full. Some of them went to Canada and eventually LEGALLY came into the US. Others went to Argentina and still live there today. Should they have tried to illegally sneak into the US after being denied admitance? HELL NO!! Just like these people shouldn't be illegally crossing the border today.

I am getting really tired of the “my ancestors came to this country legally" argument.They did, because it was a lot easier to immigrate to this country.

It's pretty clear to me that most immigrant opponents have no idea how difficult it is to immigrate to this country legally, especially if you are low-skilled worker ( it's almost virtually impossible)

But let’s be honest here, you don't give a damn about the legal vs illegal argument, you want to completely shut the borders.

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Mass, that would be justification to send them home. I can understand that mentality. Stealing because you need food, while still illegal is understandable to me. I wouldn't hesitate to steal if it meant food for my kids who would otherwise go hungry. We are driven to eat. We must or we will die. What I am saying here is that yes, they are breaking the law (even if the current regs are f'ed). I have no problem with you saying they are lawbreakers and should be returned. I don't agree but I can respect that. But claiming they are sacks of **** goes beyond that. It reeks of ignorance in addition to intelorance. I've long recognized you to be one of those, but not the other.

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I am getting really tired of the “my ancestors came to this country legally" argument.They did, because it was a lot easier to immigrate to this country.

It's pretty clear to me that most immigrant opponents have no idea how difficult it is to immigrate to this country legally, especially if you are low-skilled worker ( it's almost virtually impossible)

But let’s be honest here, you don't give a damn about the legal vs illegal argument, you want to completely shut the borders.

Actually my point in mentioning the relatives who were turned away at Ellis Island was to show that NOT EVERYONE in the past was simply welcomed with open arms when they reached these shores. Many were turned away at Ellis Island and other entrance points for a multitude of reasons. The process was more streamlined back then, but it wasn't just an open door policy.

I have a fairly reasonable understanding of the process. In Feb. of 2005 my cousin married a gentleman from Brazil who she'd met while they attended college together in New York. They moved to Brazil to live with his family after the wedding and I know many of the issues they went through with the governments of both countries. My cousin is now pregnant and they are thinking about moving back here to the US. I know the troubles they are going through in that attempt as well. Yes, the system is screwed up. I don't believe anyone will say anything otherwise. That, however, does not give ANYONE carte blanche to break the law in order to enter the United States.

As for your assertion that I simply want ALL immigration stopped, you're actually wrong. I want the borders secured, all immigration documented, and I want people to prove what it is they have to offer the United States before we just throw the gates open and allow everyone into the estate to eat the feast, drink the alcohol, steal the silverware and china, engage in carnal activities with the Lady of the house, and set themselves up in the master suite like they own the place at the expense of those of us who have worked so hard to make it what it is today. Then again, I also believe that there are a large number of people BORN here who shouldn't be granted the rights that go with the PRIVLEDGE of American Citizenship, so that's probably part of it as well.

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Mass, that would be justification to send them home. I can understand that mentality. Stealing because you need food, while still illegal is understandable to me. I wouldn't hesitate to steal if it meant food for my kids who would otherwise go hungry. We are driven to eat. We must or we will die. What I am saying here is that yes, they are breaking the law (even if the current regs are f'ed). I have no problem with you saying they are lawbreakers and should be returned. I don't agree but I can respect that. But claiming they are sacks of **** goes beyond that. It reeks of ignorance in addition to intelorance. I've long recognized you to be one of those, but not the other.

Unfortunately sending them home simply offers them another opportunity to repeat the offense and maybe get away with it the next time. It's similar to an analogy I used around here the other day.... You have two muggers. One gets caught and sent to jail. The other gets two bullets in the chest, one in the head, and a permanent dirt nap. I can guarantee you one will never commit a crime again. I can almost guarantee you the other one WILL.

In regards to the stealing to eat thing, I personally believe that if you've put yourself in a position that you need to steal to eat, you're probably reaping the rewards of poor choices in the past and you've earned your position in life.

As for your comment about ignorance and intollerance.... I am a very intollerant person. I always have been and I always will be. As for the "ignorance" part.... I think that probably depends on whether or not we agree on what is and isn't worth knowing. There's a lot of information out there these days that isn't worth knowing for one reason or another. I attempt to keep myself as ignorant of that information as humanly possible.

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