Raub Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 So...I've been thinking lately. The United States is without a doubt the most powerful, influential country on this planet. But if you spend a few minutes, it's pretty easy to think of several scenarios where we are gradually losing leverage to other nations and world areas. Also...this country is absorbing so many immigrants so fast the face of the nation is rapidly changing and eventually will be vastly different than the nation of yesterday. So, I started thinking of the Roman Empire. By the year 100AD they had been the world superpower for a 100 years give or take, but things were already changing. They used conquered territories to replenish their legions, their power became more and more decentralized, and the nation's government became more and more bloated, corrupt, and ineffective. Is the United States on the same path? I happen to think so. I don't think any of us will live to see the end of it all, but I think it will happen in the next 100 years or so. I think things will degenerate to the point that our main export will be military services to the highest bidder or the area with the greatest profit potential. Eventually even those services will be no longer needed and our country will be assimilated into another. Kind of a geopolitical merger. I'd like to see some intelligent discussion on the topic. I think the comparison is a great thinking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I think the US would kick the living **** out of the Roman empire. We gots aircraft carriers and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 Um....that's not my point. I'm attempting to correlate the current condition of the U.S. with the state of the Roman Empire prior to its downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 With a Revolution and a Civil War under our belts, I don't know if it will ever get too far into totally destroying our democracy, way of life, etc... Now at what point would the American people allow another "overthrow" or civil war to happen...who knows? Perhaps it may not even involve violence....but I do think it will get to the point where the majority realizes that "business as usual" isn't gonna cut it anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 There are also significant differences. Our army is firmly under the control of our government, and communications networks are beyond anything the Romans could ever have imagined in their wildest dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 Yeah that's kind of my thought. Eventually it will devolve to the point where the country is sort of "acquired" by another country. Nothing violent or military, just a sort of geo-political merger. Unless you're paying attention you won't notice it, but suddenly we'll become the United States presented by China or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Um....that's not my point. I'm attempting to correlate the current condition of the U.S. with the state of the Roman Empire prior to its downfall. I stand by my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I think the US would kick the living **** out of the Roman empire. We gots aircraft carriers and whatnot. Yah, but did you see 'Gladiator'? They had lions and ****. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 There are also significant differences. Our army is firmly under the control of our government, and communications networks are beyond anything the Romans could ever have imagined in their wildest dreams. True, but government control of their military wasn't necessarily their downfall, nor was communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Yeah that's kind of my thought. Eventually it will devolve to the point where the country is sort of "acquired" by another country. Nothing violent or military, just a sort of geo-political merger. Unless you're paying attention you won't notice it, but suddenly we'll become the United States presented by China or something. The first thing that popped into my head when I read this is that it will more likely be "Presented by Microsoft.....the USA!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Yah, but did you see 'Gladiator'?They had lions and ****. ... Yeah, but if we tell Isreal they kidnapped Jesus (a Isreal 'soldier') we'd have some back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 True, but government control of their military wasn't necessarily their downfall, nor was communication. Certainly there were elements of overexpansion, but that is tied in very closely with communications and logistics. It was impossible to defend a border stretching across northern Europe from England to the Urals in A.D. 100. With advanced fighter and bomber planes, spy satellites and ballistic missiles, it becomes much more manageable. (Add to this the fact that the United States has a firm ally to the north in Canada and is flanked on both sides by oceans.) My point isn't necessarily that the United States isn't headed into a decline of sorts. I'm just saying that I believe you're comparing apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 Certainly there were elements of overexpansion, but that is tied in very closely with communications and logistics. It was impossible to defend a border stretching across northern Europe from England to the Urals in A.D. 100. With advanced fighter and bomber planes, spy satellites and ballistic missiles, it becomes much more manageable. (Add to this the fact that the United States has a firm ally to the north in Canada and is flanked on both sides by oceans.) Our biggest enemy is amongst us dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Funny, a friend and I were talking about UFC and our similarities to the Roman Empire just today. I think the Romans lasted for another 300 years though, which still gives us a little time before the fall. When it happens my guess is it will be the whole world falling under one government, quietly like you suggest. It will be an agreement between the nations. Not one nation defeating everyone else. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 If anyone is genuinely interested in this topic, the discussion begins and ends with this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I'd like to see some intelligent discussion on the topic. I think the comparison is a great thinking point.I'll try my best on this "intelligent discussion" business...I think we're probably more like the Roman Republic around 150 BC. If the United States falls into the hands of dictators, then we can start worrying about becoming the Roman Empire and then falling apart. I think we can count on relative stability as long as we keep a republican form of government. ... When the problems will start is when Caesar takes control of the army and crosses the Rubicon ... ... so watch out for this guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 Thanks KAOSkins and Zoony, good points. I might check out that book Zoony, but the author bugs me for some reason. He writes good stuff, and does thorough research, but the way he says "Guns, Germs, and Steel" on film bugs the crap outta me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 If anyone is genuinely interested in this topic, the discussion begins and ends with this book. I read Guns, Germs and Steel, and I'll have to check that book out, but I have a hard time believing any book can definitely answer such a complicated question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurseReversed Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 as long as we have f22 raptors in the skies silent submarines in the waters aegis crusisers and aircraft carriers traveling the oceans NLOS cannons and MLRS on the ground and companies like lockheed, boeing and northrop on our soil we will not be beaten ANY time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 It's not what's out there that scares me. It's what's in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 It's not what's out there that scares me. It's what's in here. Gotcha. If and when we witness a substantial erosion of the "checks and balances" decentralization of power that our democracy hinges on, then we'll have a real worry of devolving into the type of "empire" that you guys are referring to, I'd bet. So an effort by any branch of government to overreach for power should be viewed with extreme suspicion by all Americans, not just those of one political party, seems to me. You've got me wondering about something. Have you ever read about the history of Poland? Believe it or not, they were once a democratic superpower, before their government collapsed due to corruption and a poorly conceived constitution. I wonder how many other democracies have slid down the slope, and how it occured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 It's not what's out there that scares me. It's what's in here. Yeah, the nutty right wing muttonheads in our nation worry me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I think the US would kick the living **** out of the Roman empire. We gots aircraft carriers and whatnot. :laugh: :doh: :laugh: Funniest post I've seen in a long, long time..... But, to answer the question, look at the royal kingdom. They'll still kick the **** out of 99% of the countries, and are allied with their redheaded stepchild. The future may not be bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I stand by my post. Second funniest post I've seen in a long, long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 the biggest problem in this country is lack of representation of the people. politicians have an agenda to push and will do anything to get a seat in congress. after elected, ignore the people that voted them in, pander to special interest groups that are a minority but all vote together, push their agendas, and give big breaks to thier sponsers. we need more referendums where the actual people make decisions that effect thier lives instead of greedy politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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