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Why are they Americans in Lebanon?


88Comrade2000

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I don't need to stand on London Bridge or visit Buckingham Palace to know that England is a socialist country

If you stood on London Bridge you might be in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. :D

The bridge in London that is a popular tourist icon is called Tower Bridge.

But you didn't need to go to London to find that out. :laugh:

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Lebanon has traditionally been one of the most western leaning middle eastern states. They, "traditionally" were a hub of banking and trade and a place where western culture mixed with middle eastern cultures. The Lebeneese are known for they're business abilities through out the middle east. True it was a dangerous place in the 80's during their civil war but today they are a pro western democracy. They were just coming back from terrible troubles. That is why everybody was cringing when the Israeli general said he was going to set them back 20 years....

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If you stood on London Bridge you might be in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. :D

The bridge in London that is a popular tourist icon is called Tower Bridge.

But you didn't need to go to London to find that out. :laugh:

Mass is having a rough week with geographical locations.

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it appears that there is a London Bridge in London after all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge

it is true that the old London bridge was bought and rebuilt in arizona.

I used to travel across it every day for five years :) so I know that, but when people talk about London Bridge they mean this:

http://www2.freefoto.com//images_d/31/01/31_01_1_web.jpg?&k=Tower+Bridge%2C+London%2C+England

Not this:

http://www2.freefoto.com//images_d/31/01/31_01_15_web.jpg?&k=London+Bridge%2C+London%2C+England

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Care to share with us what the animosity is that you feel towards all foriegn countries? Are there any non-US places that you have or would visit? Or do you feel that every other country outside of the US is "third world" and thus not worth your time.

As I've discussed previously, I have a very unyielding set of values and principles that I attempt to live my life by at all times. I tend to avoid dealing with people and groups that don't follow or fall into those values and principles pretty well. Without going into great detail, that means there's only one country on this planet that comes even close to meeting my standards. That is the United States of America. While the USA isn't a utopia for me by any stretch of the imagination it's a huge drop off from the US to anywhere and everywhere else on the planet.

There are really no non-US places that I would visit. My two trips to Canada were in my childhood, before I had the opportunity to make the decision about leaving the country myself. I have not left the US since I became an adult and don't intend to any time soon. That's not to say there aren't places I wouldn't mind visiting (Australia, Ireland, Norway, etc...) if their society was more along the lines of my values. Unfortunately until their societies correct themselves, there is no chance of me wasting my time or money on such a trip.

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I used to travle across it every day for five year :) so I know that, but when people talk about London Bridge they mean this:

http://www2.freefoto.com//images_d/31/01/31_01_1_web.jpg?&k=Tower+Bridge%2C+London%2C+England

Not this:

http://www2.freefoto.com//images_d/31/01/31_01_15_web.jpg?&k=London+Bridge%2C+London%2C+England

I admit it, if I was shown those two bridges(prior to reading the article on them that is) I would have picked the Tower bridge as london bridge.

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Mass, I have read where you say you love this country (or at least what the country is supposed to be in your views).

I love this country and give back to it out of gratitude and principle regardless of my not agreeing with many of the things our society and our government does or supports.

So, in honor of both of those lines of thought, I want to thank you for not traveling abroad. :D :laugh:

No problem, Jumbo. You're welcome.

A couple friends of mine and I have a recurring conversation about how much trouble I would get in if I were to ever visit Europe. The general view is that I would end up in a lot of trouble if I were to ever travel overseas.

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I never said I know EVERYTHING about these places. Just that I knew enough not to have any interest in visiting these countries. I don't need to stand on London Bridge or visit Buckingham Palace to know that England is a socialist country

I also was impressed with the idea of visting Buckingham Palace, official London home of the British Monarch, to determine that England is a socialist country. I wonder who the head of this socialist country could be. It clearly can't be the British Monarch, and Tony Blair is Prime Minister of the British Parliament.

Any ideas who is head of the English socialist state you were referring to?

With such a grasp of international affairs I can see that travel would not benefit you at all. :laugh:

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Mass is having a rough week with geographical locations.

Yep. That's the second one this week I should have known better about. I know that what most people call "London Bridge" is actually the "Tower Bridge". I also knew that "London Bridge" had been moved to Arizona. I'm just having a terribly geography week, as you mentioned.

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Actually Jumbo you were pretty close to my line of thinking about MSF. I was going to point out that he's kind of like the crazy Aunt we keep locked away in the basement out of shame. Seriously, dude takes the concept of the ugly American to new lows.

In any event, what do you expect from a country where many of the people can't even pick their own state out of a U.S. map.

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Actually Jumbo you were pretty close to my line of thinking about MSF. I was going to point out that he's kind of like the crazy Aunt we keep locked away in the basement out of shame. Seriously, dude takes the concept of the ugly American to new lows.

No. I'm more like the Uncle that nobody ever invites to dinner because they know he'll spend the entire evening correcting everyone and telling the stories that they don't want the children to hear.

Oh, and if I take "Ugly American" to a new low (which I'll take as a compliment); you don't want to know how low a number of people around here take the "Anti-American-American".

In any event, what do you expect from a country where many of the people can't even pick their own state out of a U.S. map.

I actually knew the correct geographic information for both things. I just didn't use it. I'm actually fairly decent at geography as things go. Especially American geography. My mother minored in it when she went to college and I have a cousin who has a Master's Degree in the topic, so I've been around geography people for most of my life.

As for your comment about the geography skills of the average American student.... What do you expect when the school system is spending so much more time on world geography, which most of those kids will never use than American geography? The same goes for modern history. But I believe both those topics are for another time and place.

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You know, as much as I disagree with Mass, at least he's consistent on ALL things related to his values. Nobody can call him a flip-flopper and, in some ways, I can respect that. :)

Thank you herrmag. That's very insightful and nice of you to say.

Just be careful. If you say too many nice things about me you risk being thrown out fo the popular people's club around here and having your executive washroom key repossessed. :silly:

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As for your comment about the geography skills of the average American student.... What do you expect when the school system is spending so much more time on world geography, which most of those kids will never use than American geography? The same goes for modern history. But I believe both those topics are for another time and place.

Goodness gracious, this statement is ridiculous. You're entitled to your views (and your ignorance), MSF, but there's no need to make a fool of yourself. You really think the average American student is any better at world geography than US geography? :laugh:

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Goodness gracious, this statement is ridiculous. You're entitled to your views (and your ignorance), MSF, but there's no need to make a fool of yourself. You really think the average American student is any better at world geography than US geography? :laugh:

Actually, it's the same answer that I gave earlier. Our public school systems are too focused on "General Education". We try to teach these kids a little bit about absolutely everything, regardless of whether or not they're ever really likely to use any of it or whether it's actually important. We've spread their education so thin, how can you actually expect them to retain any of it?

I'd love to discuss this in depth but I think it's a topic for another time and thread.

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Actually, it's the same answer that I gave earlier. Our public school systems are too focused on "General Education". We try to teach these kids a little bit about absolutely everything, regardless of whether or not they're ever really likely to use any of it or whether it's actually important. We've spread their education so thin, how can you actually expect them to retain any of it?

Ah, I get it - students are so distracted by studying world geography that they don't have the time or energy to study US geography adequately. In fact, why distract them with information about other states (especially states like California and Massachusetts!), or even other towns? Students should be expected to be familiar only with the geography of their own neighborhood. Hey, with this kind of reform, I bet that we can also do away with learning about that whole "world is round" business - since they won't know their way outside of their own neighborhood, it's fine if they just go on thinking the world is flat.

How can I expect students to retain knowledge, given how "thin" their education is spread? I suppose I have a lot of confidence in students' ability. Thanks to my own interest and effort while a public school student, I was able to develop a strong knowledge of US and world geography, and I don't see why others cannot build a similar knowledge as part of their schooling. I think our schools set expectations and standards that are much too low - that's my opinion as to why the US constantly lags behind other countries in terms of education (by a variety of measures). In the classes I've taught, I've found that students show a strong ability to rise to expectations. If students in other countries can master the variety of subjects that they are expected to learn, I certainly think American students can do it. If individuals have the time and brainpower to become experts on 8th-12th century Europe, which they most certainly do, I think they have the time and brainpower for a great deal of information. The question of "what are students capable of learning" and the question of "what should students be learning" are two different things. There should be no debate (and no artificial limits) placed on the former. As for the latter...

We can choose to educate ourselves about the world as a whole, or we can choose to limit our knowledge and remain ignorant. To each his own...as long as the ignorant recognize and acknowledge their ignorance. Problems arise when the ignorant start behaving as though they're educated, because they rely on assumptions about things that they know little about. In a "shrinking" world in which the US engages other countries in commerce, geopolitics, space exploration, and more, I think it behooves us to educate ourselves well about the world as a whole. This education should include geography, so we have an idea of who else is out there and where they are. (I'm reminded of threads here where people suggest we bomb "them" or attack "them" but cannot give a clear answer as to which "them" they are referring to, or confuse one "them" with another.) Returning to the thread topic, I think there is similar value in overseas travel, so (even if we don't like how those people live or the values they espouse) we can better appreciate and understand the perspectives and lifestyles of people around the world.

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As for your comment about the geography skills of the average American student.... What do you expect when the school system is spending so much more time on world geography, which most of those kids will never use than American geography? The same goes for modern history. But I believe both those topics are for another time and place.
Actually, it's the same answer that I gave earlier. Our public school systems are too focused on "General Education". We try to teach these kids a little bit about absolutely everything, regardless of whether or not they're ever really likely to use any of it or whether it's actually important. We've spread their education so thin, how can you actually expect them to retain any of it?

MSF - In the original comment, you wrote "the school system is spending so much more time on world geography." The use of the word "more" makes it sound like you think that American students are learning world geography and are not learning US geography. Perhaps you simply meant to say something like, "the school system is spending too much time on world geography," which would be more in line with your follow-up comment. I assume the follow-up comment better represents your actual views, but I wasn't going to let the initial comment go by without a response.

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