Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling


SUNSTONE

Recommended Posts

I don't think enough people know Jones or care about Evans to make it the biggest event ever. Plus I don't think Evans is going to give Jones much trouble.

Are you sure? They've marketed the heck out of Jones, plus if he beats Rampage, ESPN will make him famous. And I wouldn't sleep on Evans. Dude can fight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you sure? They've marketed the heck out of Jones, plus if he beats Rampage, ESPN will make him famous. And I wouldn't sleep on Evans. Dude can fight.

If things go down like that it would be a pretty big event but not the biggest ever. Not even close IMO.

Edited by #98QBKiller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If things go down like that it would be a pretty big event but not the biggest ever. Not even close IMO.

Agreed. There are a lot of people that bought PPVs just because of Brock Lesnar. It did not matter who he was fighting. Even though it would be a great fight and probably would be marketed flawlessly, it is not coming close to Lesnar level.

Lesnar has headlined three events that got over 1 million buys, including UFC 100, that got 1.6 million. As good as Rashad is, not many people will buy a PPV because of him. Same for Jones, he has the potential for greatness, but he does not have the same draw to the casual fan...yet.

It could be big, but it is not going to be close to the biggest ever. I would say right around a million buys, probably just a shade below.

EDIT: But what if we could add Lesnar's return to that card, maybe on Super Bowl weekend? Then we would be talking...from a PPV numbers standpoint at least.

But we are getting a little ahead of ourselves. There is still one fight that has to go down before we start setting future dates.

Edited by lovetoaster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly.

Lesnar, Anderson, GSP, etc. these are guys that bring in massive PPV buys, I don't think a Jones/Evans fight would touch that right now. I think UFC Rio is easily going to outsell a Jones/Evans card...same with the two cards in October with GSP/Diaz and the one with the 145 & 155 belts on the line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. There are a lot of people that bought PPVs just because of Brock Lesnar. It did not matter who he was fighting. Even though it would be a great fight and probably would be marketed flawlessly, it is not coming close to Lesnar level.

Lesnar has headlined three events that got over 1 million buys, including UFC 100, that got 1.6 million. As good as Rashad is, not many people will buy a PPV because of him. Same for Jones, he has the potential for greatness, but he does not have the same draw to the casual fan...yet.

It could be big, but it is not going to be close to the biggest ever. I would say right around a million buys, probably just a shade below.

EDIT: But what if we could add Lesnar's return to that card, maybe on Super Bowl weekend? Then we would be talking...from a PPV numbers standpoint at least.

But we are getting a little ahead of ourselves. There is still one fight that has to go down before we start setting future dates.

I just think you'll get all the UFC regulars and a lot of blacks, who for the most part, watches boxing. I know I'll be getting it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no replacing TIME. Jones hasn't been around long enough for him to be as well known as other champs that have made a name for themselves by keeping the belt and staying in the spot light:

Heavyweight: Cain Velasquez (9-0-0, no title defense)

Light Heavyweight: Jon Jones (13-1-1, no title defense)

Middleweight: Anderson Silva (28-4-0, defended the title 11 times)

Welterweight: Georges St-Pierre (22-2-0, defended the title 7 times winning 6)

Lightweight: Frankie Edgar (13-1-1, defended his title twice winning and drawing once)

Featherweight: Jose Aldo (19-1-0, defended his UFC title once)

Bantamweight: Dominick Cruz (18-1-0, defended his UFC title once)

As you can see Silva and GSP have stuck around and I think that is a huge boost to penetrating the consciousness of casual fans. There are other ways to do so, like for instance being a WWE wrestling star or beating a MMA hall of fame caliber fighter. Jon Jones helped himself by defeating Shogun Rua. GSP took down the nearly unbeatable Matt Hughes and BJ Penn.

Jon Jones will get there but he's not there yet. I think he's more marketable then all of the above and with the right team and the right results he could be the face of MMA within two years. It helps that Silva is losing popularity and GSP doesn't seem to have many US sponsors putting him in their commercials.

Fedor is done. Brock will never be champion again. Light heavyweight is the most stacked division in MMA at the moment IMO. Jones is well placed to do it.

Edited by Destino
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll be rooting for Rampage too.

He has the power to drop anyone but I just don't see him getting inside of Jones' reach. I'm not sure who to pull for in Jones vs. Evans, when/if it happens. I get a similar feeling about Jones and the ****iness, but he's such an entertaining and different fighter it's hard to root against him.

Outside of Wandy, who's chin is the equivalent of dust, Rampage hasn't one shot killed anybody in a long time, despite being in with fighters who have shown a propensity for being finished. I keep waiting to see that Rampage power we all know and remember, but lately it's been absent. He doesn't have that killer in him anymore, old Rampage never would've allowed Hammil to see the final bell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Outside of Wandy, who's chin is the equivalent of dust, Rampage hasn't one shot killed anybody in a long time, despite being in with fighters who have shown a propensity for being finished. I keep waiting to see that Rampage power we all know and remember, but lately it's been absent. He doesn't have that killer in him anymore, old Rampage never would've allowed Hammil to see the final bell.

I was more disappointed that he didn't finish Jardine than I was Hamill. He didn't put Hamill to sleep but he did put a beatdown on him for three rounds. He also dropped Rashad in their fight and outside of the Machida fight, Rashad has had a pretty good chin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hell, Jardine got close to winning that fight. Hard to believe now, isn't it?

I actually think Jardine would have won that fight if he did not get knocked down late in the fight, if I remember correctly.

I am worried for Jardine if he gets who he wants for his next fight. He is moving down to middleweight and has lobbied for Cung Le.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.cagepotato.com/exclusive-proelite-on-the-verge-of-a-new-deal-with-cbs-and-showtime/

It looks like the proclamation UFC president Dana White made a few months ago that CBS will likely go head-to-head with his promotion again in the near future was right on the money.

Sources close to the promotion that was recently brought back from the verge of death by Stratus Media Group, who acquired a 95 percent ownership stake of the company in June, have informed CagePotato.com that ProElite is in the final stages of negotiations for a multi-year television deal with Viacom that will see its events broadcast on both Showtime and CBS starting in the first quarter of 2012.

Viacom owns 20 percent, or approximately 11,991,172 of the 59,955,862 outstanding shares of ProElite (PELE), which are currently trading at 48 cents each after sitting at a penny for the past three years since EliteXC folded. At the height of EliteXC’s popularity, ProElite’s shares routinely traded at $15. A resurgence of the company aided by a deal with Viacom, would mean that for every dollar they can raise the stock purchase price by, the media conglomerate could stand to earn close to $12 million U.S.

In September 2008 Showtime Networks filed a public notice with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) that stated their intention to enter into discussions to purchase ProElite to try to save the company from bankruptcy, but the deal never came to fruition. The company’s CEO at the time, Chuck Champion instead chose to sell off select limited assets, including fighter contracts and its extensive video catalogue to Strikeforce in an effort to bring the books back into the black, which he did with the transaction. Since then, the company, whose other assets include major stakes in the UK’s Cage Rage and Korea’s SpiritMC promotions, remained dormant until the Stratus Media acquisition brought it back from the ashes.

Showtime’s current deals with Strikeforce and M-1 will soon be over, effectively clearing the way for ProElite’s shows to be broadcast on its networks, which will in turn mean bigger name fighters signing with the promotion whose roster includes former UFC heavyweight champion Andrei Arlovski, The Ultimate Fighter season 3 winner Kendall Grove and UFC veteran Joe Riggs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If an MMA league would adopt the more modern and successful business plan of today's professional sports I think it could sink zuffa and the UFC. Instead of seemingly random fights and disjointed individual fighters adopt the ownership/team model and tie it to specific locations. It wouldn't be difficult or very expensive to have "Washington DC's MMA Team" complete with oversized gym that allows spectators and accommodates the most dedicated (and well funded) fans that want to train there. The teams would be required to have fighters in every weight class and depth allowing for tournaments to be more about the teams and not be utterly destroyed by an injury. Fighter could sign deals with their teams and even be traded as teams seek to upgrade one weight class when they feel they have an overflow of talent in another. Plus this would create a far superior talent scouting system than simply waiting for a guy to brave poverty in the unknown MMA ranks attempting to catch the eye of a better MMA promotion. Fans would have an easier time following the sport.

The boxing/fight sport model is outdated and will never see the numbers it did when boxing was at it's peak. In order to be a true sport the level of organization has to be greater than "our fight scheduler thinks this would be a good fight". Fight sports currently are run more like a circus than a sport, focused more on giving the fans what they want to see than allowing competition itself to create tremendous drama.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If an MMA league would adopt the more modern and successful business plan of today's professional sports I think it could sink zuffa and the UFC. Instead of seemingly random fights and disjointed individual fighters adopt the ownership/team model and tie it to specific locations. It wouldn't be difficult or very expensive to have "Washington DC's MMA Team" complete with oversized gym that allows spectators and accommodates the most dedicated (and well funded) fans that want to train there. The teams would be required to have fighters in every weight class and depth allowing for tournaments to be more about the teams and not be utterly destroyed by an injury. Fighter could sign deals with their teams and even be traded as teams seek to upgrade one weight class when they feel they have an overflow of talent in another. Plus this would create a far superior talent scouting system than simply waiting for a guy to brave poverty in the unknown MMA ranks attempting to catch the eye of a better MMA promotion. Fans would have an easier time following the sport.

The boxing/fight sport model is outdated and will never see the numbers it did when boxing was at it's peak. In order to be a true sport the level of organization has to be greater than "our fight scheduler thinks this would be a good fight". Fight sports currently are run more like a circus than a sport, focused more on giving the fans what they want to see than allowing competition itself to create tremendous drama.

The IFL experimented with team formats, didn't last that long. While I agree that model is outdated, I'm not certain of things change soon enough for any of us to care about it. Its hard to promote something with a team concept when its just two individuals in cage or ring. I've said for the longest time, the UFC could solve alot of problems with their own official rankings. I don't expect it to happen anytime soon because it makes Dana & Joe Silva's job harder. Right now they can get away with simply saying a fighter is "in the mix", they don't strike me as the type to give up control voluntarily.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The IFL experimented with team formats, didn't last that long. While I agree that model is outdated, I'm not certain of things change soon enough for any of us to care about it. Its hard to promote something with a team concept when its just two individuals in cage or ring. I've said for the longest time, the UFC could solve alot of problems with their own official rankings. I don't expect it to happen anytime soon because it makes Dana & Joe Silva's job harder. Right now they can get away with simply saying a fighter is "in the mix", they don't strike me as the type to give up control voluntarily.

The IFL tried to half ass it and rush the process. Ranking doesn't do much for me as it basically switches one arbitrary system for another. Perhaps if they did a ladder system in combination with a ranking system where the fighters were in charge of the challenges and not the executives it could be different. Right now they have a billion events and there is no rhyme of reason for the fights other than entertainment.

As a long time fight fan I can tell you this is getting old and needs to evolve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't see the team concept working in MMA either. I really do not have a good reason or argument, but it just is not a team sport. It is one on one competition and that is part of the allure of it to many people. Sure, it is an old concept, but it is a concept that has worked and would have continued to work for boxing IMO, if not for corruption and a business model that has been flawed by greed.

Trying to make MMA into team competition would just feel so articifial to me. I don't know if I would care so much if the DC Assault won, but I would care if Rampage Jackson of the DC Assault won. Just attaching a fighter to team A and another to team B and having them fight does not do much for me. I guess you could say the same thing about the NFL, that not many players on the Redskins have a distinct connection to the city, but the NFL has a 90 year foundation. It would take a long time for something like that to gain footing in something like MMA since when you get to the root of it, it is, and always will be an individual sport.

MMA will be fine, as long as they continue to listen to the fans and not let greed and corruption get the best of them. That is easier said than done though, as temptation always rises when this much money is flying around.

Edited by lovetoaster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't see the team concept working in MMA either. I really do not have a good reason or argument, but it just is not a team sport. It is one on one competition and that is part of the allure of it to many people. Sure, it is an old concept, but it is a concept that has worked and would have continued to work for boxing IMO, if not for corruption and a business model that has been flawed by greed.

I think boxing died in large part because they ran low on fighters anybody cared about. The world when boxing died and the world when boxing was thriving are entirely different animals. We don't consume media the same way anymore and we don't see athletes the same way either. Boxing died when it's popular champs fell and were replaced by relatively unknown, uninspiring, or mediocre fighters. Manny gets huge crowds... but where did everyone else go? This happened to them despite their massive infrastructure because you're not always going to have a Jordan era. Sports today aren't about the gameday experience... they are about the 24 hour media cycle and the details that lead up to the game day experience. Baseball fans have been stat nerds since the dawn of time. The NFL and NBA spent a lot of money tracking stats for a reason. The press needs a reason to talk about your sport between events. The UFC and boxing don't have that because their model is old and outdated. It's unfit to hold the interest of the "what happened today" era.

When Manny was arguing about drug tests boxing was on ESPN constantly. The second that discussion stopped I see him on cell phone commercials exclusively.

Trying to make MMA into team competition would just feel so articifial to me. I don't know if I would care so much if the DC Assault won, but I would care if Rampage Jackson of the DC Assault won. Just attaching a fighter to team A and another to team B and having them fight does not do much for me. I guess you could say the same thing about the NFL, that not many players on the Redskins have a distinct connection to the city, but the NFL has a 90 year foundation. It would take a long time for something like that to gain footing in something like MMA since when you get to the root of it, it is, and always will be an individual sport.

The UFC has many problems lining up as time goes on. They have no ability to recruit and develop talent early being one of them. MMA has "wrestlers" and "boxers" etc etc etc. When is that last time you watched a golfer credit his fishing background or a tennis player credit his basketball experience for his success? Boxing had a massive base that existed from golden gloves to the Olympics that all worked to sharpen talent found and promoted out of fight gyms that were stationed all over the country. The boxing model found boat loads of great athletes because they had the structure and draw to capture them.

The UFC is pretty much the driving force behind the growth of MMA. They dwarfed their competition and took MMA from an obscure guilty pleasure to a real sport. It really helped that they were able to leech fighters from other promotions but they are running out of warm bodies to feed on. Relying on obscure promotions and fighters braving poverty and injury in hopes of maybe catching Dana White's eye is not a long term plan. They took the best from pride, reloaded with the best from WEC, and will soon take the best from strikeforce. Then what? Hope the poverty promotions find a gem? In growing upwards they've been actively murdering the foundation of MMA. They attack gyms that don't play ball and keep the pay out of fighters low. You aren't getting the best athletes when 60k is considered a good payout.

---------- Post added August-10th-2011 at 12:19 AM ----------

But I do agree that an official ranking system is needed.

How do you keep a ranking system from becoming utter bull****? I've never seen a ranking system that has managed to avoid this. A ladder system ending in a playoff would be better.

Edited by Destino
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From today's WP Sports Bog:

Q: The UFC recently banned the use of Speedos in the Octagon. Does that affect any local fighters?

A: As a matter of fact, it does. Mike “the Hulk” Easton, one of D.C.’s most accomplished fighters, has long used tight-fitting spandex to prevent opponents from grabbing onto his shorts. But UFC head Dana White banned the outfits this week, after Dennis Hallman wore a ridiculously revealing pair at UFC 133. This came just as Easton was out promoting his UFC debut on Oct. 1 at Verizon Center, which will be the organization’s first show at the downtown D.C. arena.

“That was unprofessional for him to wear Speedos like that, which messes it up for me, but it’s cool,” Easton told me. “I’ve got some other shorts that actually look like the Hulk’s shorts, with some shreds, a couple rips. I’ll be good.”

As for finally getting his shot at UFC in his home town, Easton was fairly excited.

“I have my chance and opportunity, and it’s here in Washington, D.C.,” the 135-pounder said. “Speechless. Speechless, man. It’s a dream come true.”

Cool for Easton. And this thread is DEFINITELY better w/o pics :ols:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Golden Glory Says Alistair Overeem Would Sign a UFC-Only Deal

Despite the rancor between Golden Glory and the UFC, which resulted in several of the Dutch promotion's fighters being released from their Zuffa contracts, top Golden Glory star Alistair Overeem is still interested in signing an exclusive deal with the UFC.

That is one of the revelations in a statement that Golden Glory co-owner Bas Boon released on Thursday.

"We just want to be able to produce great fighters and create great fights for the fans," Boon said in the statement. "We have no intention for co-promotion deals and are even willing to make an exclusive deal for Alistair Overeem to fight in the UFC, if the terms are right."

What exactly the right terms would be is not clear, but one thing Boon did make clear is that he takes issue with UFC President Dana White's statements about Golden Glory's payment policies. White said the UFC wanted to pay fighters directly and was uncomfortable with Golden Glory's policy of serving as a middleman for fighter payment, but Boon said Golden Glory is fine with Zuffa paying Overeem, Marloes Coenen, John Olav Einemo and any of its other fighters directly.

"The payment was done how the UFC wanted," Boon said in the statement. "I do not understand why Danna [sic] claims we did not agree? We did not have a choice and never said we would not fight in the future or that we would refuse to work like this in the future (we worked out that problem with the Zuffa lawyer in the Vancouver and even agreed with their new sponsor policies). Maybe there is a miscommunication and Danna [sic] was not well informed that the direct payment issue was solved and no longer an issue."

Boon also placed some of the blame for the problems between Golden Glory and Zuffa on Strikeforce's Scott Coker.

"I introduced Scott through a partner of mine in L.A. to some powerful people in the U.S. (Scott was very surprised after this meeting and exited and mailed me after his meeting with these people how impressed he was). I never could have guessed that at the same moment I was talking to Scott to make a massive move for becoming a real competitor to the UFC, Scott was already talking with the same UFC for selling Strikeforce," Boon said in the statement. "I trusted Scott with some business plans. ... The problems with Strikeforce was that we made some agreements with Scott which were creating headaches now Zuffa took over."

Those headaches, according to Boon, are a major reason that Golden Glory's fighters are having problems with the UFC. But Boon is still hoping those problems will be resolved. And a resolution could result in Overeem inside the Octagon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...