Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[lovetoaster]

I'm just waiting for Crocop to eventually come back to UFC for a farewell tour and avenge that Gonzaga fight. I love Fedor, Couture, A. Silva but for some reason Crocop is still my favorite.

He is fighting Junior Dos Santos at UFC 103

Well, at least that we can agree on. GSP is one of my all-time favorite UFC fighters. The guy is simply amazing.

You just like his attire.

Edited July 13, 2009 by lovetoaster

[Kosher Ham]

Ehh...

Lesnar already has money.

Tyson and Lesnar are not built from the same mold.

EDIT: Mike always was and always will be a headhunter. I don't know what fights you were watching.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Kosher Ham

[KDawg]

BROCK will be the same way if he isn't careful. He may feel like his size will get him by, and he wont have to train or take opponents seriously. He will get caught sometime soon by a good fighter who isn't afraid. Brock's chin has never been tested. For all we know he can't take a shot, and once that's shown, everybody will know his weakness....

The same can be said for Fedor, GSP, Anderson, Machida, etc. If any of them don't take it seriously, they're going to get their asses handed to them by somebody.

Brock's chin WAS tested. Mir NAILED him with a knee to the chin. Which Brock admitted fazed him... But here's the thing, it really didn't look like it fazed him in the least. He took a monster shot and kept coming and won the fight not too long after. How is that not testing the guy's chin?

[StillUnknown]

The same can be said for Fedor, GSP, Anderson, Machida, etc. If any of them don't take it seriously, they're going to get their asses handed to them by somebody.

Brock's chin WAS tested. Mir NAILED him with a knee to the chin. Which Brock admitted fazed him... But here's the thing, it really didn't look like it fazed him in the least. He took a monster shot and kept coming and won the fight not too long after. How is that not testing the guy's chin?

i agree completely

mir is 240+ and that knee had good leverage behind it, it may have stunned lesnar, but he really didn't show it in the fight

in the couture fight, lesnar got cut, and actually stepped his game up. combine that with him maintaining focus after eating the knee from Mir and you can start to see that he reacts well when in trouble from a strike

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

The same can be said for Fedor, GSP, Anderson, Machida, etc. If any of them don't take it seriously, they're going to get their asses handed to them by somebody.

Brock's chin WAS tested. Mir NAILED him with a knee to the chin. Which Brock admitted fazed him... But here's the thing, it really didn't look like it fazed him in the least. He took a monster shot and kept coming and won the fight not too long after. How is that not testing the guy's chin?

I think saying that he got NAILED and took a "monster shot" is just a bit of an exaggeration. Neither of them were flush. The one he dazed him with was a flying knee that connected at its apex. Brock got rattled, and along with Mir pulling on his head, made Brock's upper body half-way fall to the ground.

The flying knee was so desperate that Mir gave up his footing trying to land it. It was a hail mary that failed.

Edited July 13, 2009 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[KDawg]

And one more thing that bothers me about the whole Lesnar isn't good argument...

A big excuse I hear is that he's "So much stronger and bigger than everyone else he wins fights."

Yeah, true. But how did he get that much stronger and bigger. Sure, genetics play a part, but that guy works his ass off, hits the gym hard, lifts hard and heavy and trains like a madman. On top of that, he's extremely agile due to the agility/speed work he adds to his program. If anything, that knock that people always try to throw out there is a major positive. Brock works extremely hard.

Becase of the state of the HW division, even though Lesnar is my favorite fighter, I'm not ready to even put him in the beginning of a p4p argument. He's not the p4p best at the moment. He hasn't beaten enough guys and his division is weak at the moment.

[KDawg]

I think saying that he got NAILED and took a "monster shot" is just a bit of an exaggeration. Mir's knees aren't exactly comparable to those from kickboxing experts, and neither of them were flush. The one he dazed him with was a flying knee that connected at its apex. Brock got rattled, and along with Mir pulling on his head, made Brock kind of lose it for a split second.

The flying knee was so desperate that Mir gave up his footing trying to land it. It was a hail mary that failed.

Does it matter if it was from a kickboxer? He got hit with a flying knee. Hard. How is that not testing the guy's chin? Let's see what you do when someone hits you with a flying knee man. They hurt. Especially if someone that weighs 245 hits you with it.

No one gives credit where credit is due when it comes to Lesnar. Anyone else that survived that knee would have been praised.

You know your MMA man, I don't doubt your knowledge in the least, I just can't agree with you here.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Does it matter if it was from a kickboxer? He got hit with a flying knee. Hard. How is that not testing the guy's chin? Let's see what you do when someone hits you with a flying knee man. They hurt. Especially if someone that weighs 245 hits you with it.

No one gives credit where credit is due when it comes to Lesnar. Anyone else that survived that knee would have been praised.

You know your MMA man, I don't doubt your knowledge in the least, I just can't agree with you here.

I have been giving credit to Lesnar, he beat the crap out of Mir. Notice I erased that sentence about kickboxers, because you're right, Butterbean's knees are just as good as Overeem's.

It doesn't matter how you cut it, a chin can be tested much better than that. It didn't connect on its way up more than it connected at its apex. If it was a devastating knee that Brock took, people would be talking about it more. Not exactly my idea of having his chin tested. In my opinion, it could have been much worse.

NAILED and "monster shot", hardly.

Edited July 13, 2009 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[StillUnknown]

Buffer did the 360 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6nPFr0WhM

i can't believe i missed that when it happened

Bruce Buffer has now surpassed Michael Buffer in my books

[KDawg]

I have been giving credit to Lesnar, he beat the crap out of Mir. Notice I erased that sentence about kickboxers, because you're right, Butterbean's knees are just as good as Overeem's.

It doesn't matter how you cut it, a chin can be tested much better than that. It didn't connect on its way up more than it connected at its apex. If it was a devastating knee that Brock took, people would be talking about it more. Not exactly my idea of having his chin tested. In my opinion, it could have been much worse.

NAILED and "monster shot", hardly.

Maybe he could have been tested more, but for a good shot, and it was a good shot, maybe not the best, but good nonetheless, it didn't even seem like it fazed Lesnar. He went right through it.

Sure he can be tested harder, but my point was the guy has taken a few good hits and kept rolling. His chin has been tested and he hasn't been put down yet.

[#98QBKiller]

Me saying Machida, Silva and GSP should be the discussion for p4p best and not including Fedor doesn't have anything to do with iFedor's win/loss record/accomplishments. It's more an indictment of the weight class he fights in. I think the HW weight class is weak as a whole. I think those other guys have much tougher roads to plow and I think p4p they are better fighters. I'm still not seeing why it's so funny.

If you noticed, I didn't list any HW as a top p4p guy. I'm just not sold on the division.

That doesn't really make any sense. The HW class that Fedor stomped through in Pride was as deep as it gets. He destroyed anyone they put in front of him during that time and he did it convincingly. That HW division was way more stacked than the MW division that Anderson has been fighting in the last few years and Fedor has no legitimate blemishes on his record like GSP does. Machida's on his way there but there are still some tests out there for him.

Fedor beat both Nogueira and Cro-Cop in their primes (the 2nd and 3rd best HWs behind him at the time) and he showed that he can beat people standing, grappling, he showed that he can wrestle and IMO, he still has some of the most brutal ground n pound in the sport. He got off track after the UFC takeover of Pride and fought lower tier guys in Linland and Hong Man Choi (a MW and a freakshow match) but he finished them both like he was supposed to and since then, he's completely destroyed Sylvia and Arlovski back to back. Arlovski was #2 in the world and I'm pretty sure Sylvia was #3 behind Nogueira.

If he beats Josh Barnett and beats him convincingly, it's not even really a debate anymore. He will be the P4P king and the UFC had better get their heads out of their asses and sign him.

His record, his # of finishes, him beating top guys in the world on a consistent basis and the fact that he seemingly has no holes in his game pretty much makes him the P4P best in a lot of people's eyes and if they don't think he's the best then he's certainly considered in the top two or three. To say that he doesn't even belong in the converstation is ludicrous and yes, it's laughable. Sorry man, that argument just doesn't add up.

You are right on the money. That and some Captain 100 proof. That **** gave me one of those smiles Bob has in the viagra commercials. After the fights we played some beer pong and I took shots instead of drinking that ****in piss water they were tinkling in the cups. Chicory stout and the 90 minute IPA has made me want to vomit at the sight of a banner for cheap beers. I even drink my coffee with just a little bit of cream and no sugar to mimic the taste of Sam Adams cream stout. I've got it down to a ****ing science. Did I mention I like beer?

:laugh:

Well I can't say that I disagree with you man. That Chicory stout is ****ing delicious. I drank a bunch of 60 minute on Saturday night at the bar. We left at around 1ish and I was pretty gone when I got home but started pounding some more beer. It was ridiculous, I remember seeing the Hendo KO and sobering up though! I'm so glad I ordered this PPV, it turned out to be totally worth it.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Maybe he could have been tested more, but for a good shot, and it was a good shot, maybe not the best, but good nonetheless, it didn't even seem like it fazed Lesnar. He went right through it.

Sure he can be tested harder, but my point was the guy has taken a few good hits and kept rolling. His chin has been tested and he hasn't been put down yet.

I honestly would rather talk about paint drying but for the life of me I can't help myself. In my opinion, Brock hasn't had his chin tested. This is not a cut on Brock as much of how it's a testament to him. He fought a mediocre kickboxer in Herring and made him do a back flip moments in to the fight. Couture's best punch of all time merely knocked Tim "Please beat me" Sylvia to his knees, so we knew Randy wasn't going to KO Brock. Mir has knocked out a journeyman and had to land 500 punches to the zombie-version of Big Nog before putting him away.

The closest thing we've seen to his chin being tested was the knee we're talking about. I don't think that is decisive, you do, it doesn't really matter.

Edited July 13, 2009 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[ACW]

http://www.fightticker.com/fightticker/story_0713090730_strikeforce_to_live_stream_july_14_carano_cyborg_press_conference_on_web_site

Beauty vs. the Beast presser tomorrow.

Carano: :drool: :hump:

Cyborg: :ahhhhh: :puke:

[#98QBKiller]

Buffer did the 360 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6nPFr0WhM

i can't believe i missed that when it happened

Bruce Buffer has now surpassed Michael Buffer in my books

Holy crap I missed it too. He said on his radio show that if he were ever to do the 360 that it would be at UFC 100. I'm guessing the camera man just missed it on the PPV though...I'll have to take a look at it and see.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.fightticker.com/fightticker/story_0713090730_strikeforce_to_live_stream_july_14_carano_cyborg_press_conference_on_web_site

Beauty vs. the Beast presser tomorrow.

Carano: :drool: :hump:

Cyborg: :ahhhhh: :puke:

poor carano

i fear that cyborg may be the better looking of the two when that fight is over

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

:laugh:

Well I can't say that I disagree with you man. That Chicory stout is ****ing delicious. I drank a bunch of 60 minute on Saturday night at the bar. We left at around 1ish and I was pretty gone when I got home but started pounding some more beer. It was ridiculous, I remember seeing the Hendo KO and sobering up though! I'm so glad I ordered this PPV, it turned out to be totally worth it.

LOL. The PPV was worth it for sure. The Henderson KO will make the wait for UFC 101 easy. I can sit here and watch SU's signature for a full minute (not uncommon for SU sigs). Him walking out to Lunatic Fringe was bad ass. I haven't felt so proud to be an American during a PPV since Hulk Hogan beat the Iron Sheik.

I smashed some Chicory Stout and had a few Guinness Extra Stouts. I think I gained 5 pounds on fight night. 60 minute IPA is phenominal. I asked my girlfriend for a few 120 minute IPA's for my birthday next week. If she goes through with it I guess I HAVE to propose. Well, at least I can get a little buzzed off of the 120 before I do it.

[#98QBKiller]

I asked my girlfriend for a few 120 minute IPA's for my birthday next week. If she goes through with it I guess I HAVE to propose. Well, at least I can get a little buzzed off of the 120 before I do it.

**** man don't get on ES after drinking that stuff, you will end up getting the ban hammer for sure!

[China]

What's up with Quentin "rampage" Jackson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur8XrxIEUH4

Apparently, that wasn't the first time:

[Chachie]

What's up with Quentin "rampage" Jackson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur8XrxIEUH4

Apparently, that wasn't the first time:

Yeah dude's got issues. I noticed Cro Cop laughing in the 2nd one.

[ACW]

The reporter's hot :hump:

[StillUnknown]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9153&zoneid=2

MAIN EVENT FIGHTERS

-Brock Lesnar $400,000 (no win bonus) def. Frank Mir $45,000 (win bonus would have been $45,000)

-Georges St. Pierre $400,000 (includes $200,000 win bonus) def. Thiago Alves $60,000 (win bonus would have been $60,000)

MAIN CARD FIGHTERS

-Dan Henderson $250,000 (includes $150,000 win bonus) def. Michael Bisping $150,000 (win bonus would have been $100,000)

*Henderson also received a $100,000 bonus for Knockout of the Night

-Jon Fitch $90,000 (includes $45,000 win bonus) def. Paulo Thiago $8,000 (win bonus would have been $8,000)

-Yoshihiro Akiyama $60,000 (includes $20,000 win bonus) def. Alan Belcher $19,000 (win bonus would have been $19,000)

*Both fighters also received a $100,000 bonus for Fight of the Night

PRELIMINARY CARD FIGHTERS

-Mark Coleman $100,000 ($50,000 win bonus) def. Stephan Bonnar $25,000 (win bonus would have been $25,000)

-Jim Miller $22,000 (includes $11,000 win bonus) def. Mac Danzig $20,000 (win bonus would have been $20,000)

-Jon Jones $18,000 (includes $9,000 win bonus) def. Jake O'Brien $13,000 (win bonus would have been $13,000)

-Dong Hyun Kim $58,000 (includes $29,000 win bonus) def. T.J. Grant $5,000 (win bonus would have been $5,000)

-Tom Lawlor $16,000 (includes $8,000 win bonus) def. C.B. Dollaway $14,000 (win bonus would have been $14,000)

*Lawlor also received a $100,000 bonus for Submission of the Night

-Shannon Gugerty $10,000 (includes $5,000 win bonus) def. Matt Grice $7,000 (win bonus would have been $7,000)

UFC 100 DISCLOSED FIGHTER PAYROLL: $1,790,000

i'm pretty sure that Lesnar also gets a cut of PPV dollars as well, so he'll probably score a over mil for this fight when its all said and done

[SolidSnake84]

When Mike was a fighter in his young days, he was trained to be patient and wait for openings instead of rushing in and loading up for the 1 punch KO's.

Those are the fights i was watching, for whoever asked.

Tyson didn't go straight for the KO until after he get away from Rooney and started going through that string of trainers. Post-Prison only made it worse as trainers focused on his incredible punching powers instead of going back to the fundamentals like Rooney and Cus did.

Those knockouts happened so early because Mike was overwhelming with speed and strength...during his fights in the 1980s he showed his opponents respect and never went for the 1 punch KO....

[Kosher Ham]

When Mike was a fighter in his young days, he was trained to be patient and wait for openings instead of rushing in and loading up for the 1 punch KO's.

Those are the fights i was watching, for whoever asked.

Tyson didn't go straight for the KO until after he get away from Rooney and started going through that string of trainers. Post-Prison only made it worse as trainers focused on his incredible punching powers instead of going back to the fundamentals like Rooney and Cus did.

Those knockouts happened so early because Mike was overwhelming with speed and strength...during his fights in the 1980s he showed his opponents respect and never went for the 1 punch KO....

You watched a different Mike Tyson than the rest of us. He was always a knockout artist.

Rooney told him to land every punch with bad intentions. He was more of a boxer when those two were involved, but he was always looking for a knockout early on. I think when he fought Spinks or Berbick only two of his fights had gone further than 4 rounds. Most of his knockouts were in the first two.

If you notice the guys that frustrated him even later in his career, were the ones that could take a punch and didn't back down. The demise of Tyson was partially on Robin's shoulders too. It devastated him.

[Sebowski]

Are we back to normal in here yet? Holy pile of pooh.....

Okay, I think the people that normally post in this thread need to have a meeting that addresses how to save our pristine, high-quality (except for my posts), MMA discussion zone from turning in to a warm can of Milwaukee's Best. Seriously dude? Seriously? .....

Just completely ignore the ignorant. Only way, imo.

The problem I have with Brock is that is not Brock himself, more the rules about the heavyweight division, IMO, there should be a SUPER-HEAVYWEIGHT division for guys over 250lb(if not less then that).

When someone with the mass and weight of Brock is on top of you, what exactly are you going to do against a guy that has 50 pounds on you? It's not like Mir was mandhandled on the ground because he doesn't have skills, it's because Brock is just that much bigger then him.

It's kind of funny because when Penn moved up to fight GSP, the natural weight disadvantage for Penn was very obvious against GSP, yet because Mir & Lesnar are heavyweights, everyone ignores just how much bigger and stronger Brock is than Mir, and most other guys in the division.

I don't think Dana White is any rush to create a super heavyweight division because it would probably severely limit how much Brock could be showcased on PPV, and when the numbers come in I bet this was the highest buyrate ever for UFC, and no way is White or the Fertitas going to pass up on these types of paydays as much as possible.

The GSP-Penn comparison is apt.

Brock (and maybe Carwin and Antonio Silva as well) definitely create a problem for weight classes. Ideally moving Super Heavys to 240 or 250 would even things out, but that would leave two thin divisions.

And it wouldn't be up to Dana. That is something for the Athletic commissions.

Somebody asked me about comparing Brock to Mike Tyson and they couldn't understand the point i was trying to make.

I'll try to elabroate some:

Mike started out training hard and had a love for boxing. He was knocking everybody out. But he also had great technique and was a great technician. In his early fights, he didn't go headhunting. The knockouts just happened. Mike had great defensive ability and his strength and conditioning were next to none.

As Mike started tasting the money, he relied less and less on boxing technique. Cus died, he fired Kevin Rooney, and just kind of coasted through his later fights pre-prison. He was loading up for the KO punch and not throwing combinations, not even training hard.

He didn't train at all for Buster Douglas who he and everyone else considered just another victim. Douglas outworked him for 10 rounds and then knocked him out...After that Tyson was never the same fighter. He still fought and knocked guys out, but he was shot as a fighter. He won because guys were scared of him and beat themselves mentally.

BROCK will be the same way if he isn't careful. He may feel like his size will get him by, and he wont have to train or take opponents seriously. He will get caught sometime soon by a good fighter who isn't afraid. Brock's chin has never been tested. For all we know he can't take a shot, and once that's shown, everybody will know his weakness....

Bad comparison. Brock said he is athlete and has been an athlete since he was 5. All he cares about is winning. He will not lose his focus. He doesn't care about money.

[ACW]

Wait, even before the win bonus GSP made over 3X Alves's take? That seems a bit unfair.