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Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling


SUNSTONE
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I just returned from the fight and it was hands down the best MMA fight night I've ever seen. Battles all night long.

Everyone was chanting Gomi until Diaz rocked him. I told my buddy before the fight that Diaz has a great chin and his size at 6'1" makes him tough for that weight class. I've watched that dude do some amazing stuff in the UFC and tonight was his best fight ever. I swear Gomi was out on his feet at the end of the first round. It looked like the refs/docs were going to stop the fight but it's pride not the UFC. Wow what a fight.

Henderson is a freaking beast! He rocked Silva so many times it wasn't funny. Hands down the smartest fighter going right now. There isn't anyone in the UFC that can touch him and I'm a huge supporter of the UFC. When I attended the last Pride fight I was really disappointed but this one was freaking unreal. Best time I've ever had at a MMA event.

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I think that Dan Henderson can be beat bring him to the UFC and find out.. Silva would get rocked by Chuck they shoulda made that fight i never really watched him much over his career but i've seen him lose multiple times recently and while good i think he's slightly overrated.. Arona beat him,Hunt beat him and Mirko destroyed him but that was kinda expected guess i started watching pride at the wrong time..

I didn't Diaz was all that in the UFC either but he exposed a Pride legend..

Nog got rocked

I'll give Pride this they make tough matches the UFC is starting to really suck with thier undercards thier awful most times.. Hughes vs Lytle please?? I agree with the person earlier throw him in thier with the HEAT he is a good fighter.. They are just trying to hype up a Hughes rematch to try to increase ticket and box office sales.. Dana White better get it togther..

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I think that Dan Henderson can be beat bring him to the UFC and find out.. Silva would get rocked by Chuck they shoulda made that fight i never really watched him much over his career but i've seen him lose multiple times recently and while good i think he's slightly overrated.. Arona beat him,Hunt beat him and Mirko destroyed him but that was kinda expected guess i started watching pride at the wrong time..

I didn't Diaz was all that in the UFC either but he exposed a Pride legend..

Nog got rocked

I'll give Pride this they make tough matches the UFC is starting to really suck with thier undercards thier awful most times.. Hughes vs Lytle please?? I agree with the person earlier throw him in thier with the HEAT he is a good fighter.. They are just trying to hype up a Hughes rematch to try to increase ticket and box office sales.. Dana White better get it togther..

Anyone can be beat but Henderson is a smart fighter. He has two attributes that are necessary to beat Chuck.

1. He's got a chin. He took some really good shots from Silva and still kept coming. He also never really gave him a good angle to land a knockout punch. Dan's always moving away from the power hand. On the flip side of that he had his hands down a couple times and Chuck will prey on that.

2. IMO to beat Chuck you have to go take him to the ground. In order to do that you have to take a punch or two. Dan took Silva down and he's a hell of a lot stronger than Chuck. Silva was like a fish out of water on his back. From what I hear Chuck is a pretty damn good wrestler as well but who's ever seen it? If Dan could take a decent shot from Chuck and get him on his back he'll wear him down and either submit him or open him up for a knock out. When was the last time you saw Chuck winded? Exactly, you have to make him use his energy because if you dance around the ring with him sooner or later he's going to ring your bell. Tito knew he had to take him down and that's why he was relentless in trying. Tito F'd up and got caught but Tito has proven time and again he doesn't have a great chin. :2cents:

As far as Nick Diaz is concerned he's been put up against some of the best UFC fighters and yes he's lost some but he always gives them fits. You've never seen a UFC fighter put him on his ass the way Gomi did last night. Diaz's long legs gives fighters fits and makes him a very difficult opponent. Gracy Jiu Jitzu is no joke!

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Anyone can be beat but Henderson is a smart fighter. He has two attributes that are necessary to beat Chuck.

1. He's got a chin. He took some really good shots from Silva and still kept coming. He also never really gave him a good angle to land a knockout punch. Dan's always moving away from the power hand. On the flip side of that he had his hands down a couple times and Chuck will prey on that.

2. IMO to beat Chuck you have to go take him to the ground. In order to do that you have to take a punch or two. Dan took Silva down and he's a hell of a lot stronger than Chuck. Silva was like a fish out of water on his back. From what I hear Chuck is a pretty damn good wrestler as well but who's ever seen it? If Dan could take a decent shot from Chuck and get him on his back he'll wear him down and either submit him or open him up for a knock out. When was the last time you saw Chuck winded? Exactly, you have to make him use his energy because if you dance around the ring with him sooner or later he's going to ring your bell. Tito knew he had to take him down and that's why he was relentless in trying. Tito F'd up and got caught but Tito has proven time and again he doesn't have a great chin. :2cents:

As far as Nick Diaz is concerned he's been put up against some of the best UFC fighters and yes he's lost some but he always gives them fits. You've never seen a UFC fighter put him on his ass the way Gomi did last night. Diaz's long legs gives fighters fits and makes him a very difficult opponent. Gracy Jiu Jitzu is no joke!

Thier is a reason those things have'nt happened to Chuck he is a great fighter especially the last few years the guy is a assasin.. Chuck is a great wrestler and thier is a reason he gets right back up when taken down.. Chuck also has a monster chin and will take some shots to get off his shots.. The thing is Henderson may give him angles but to me that plays right into Chucks unorthodox punches he likes to throw from multiple angles.. Chuck has serious power in both hands even off balance..

I'd imagine Chuck will lose soon he is seriously getting up thier in age but its gonna take a supreme fighter to do it.. If he beats Rampage i'd make a fight with CROCOP.. That fight will be huge for PPV sales and a big huge fight for the USA and see what Chuck does in the underdog role and see how great he really is before his time passes him by.. From what i've saw it would'nt surprise me 1 bit if he Randleman'd CroCop but i would'nt put any money on it..

Chuck would take Silvia's onslaught right on the chin and use his wildness againest him and TKO him in my opinion..

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UFC is really amature night. Pride has the best fighters in the world. They are way above UFC. Majority of UFC fighters dont even have real skills. they arent martial artist. Chuck is decent but in Pride, he would be and was just another victim for top fighters. of course, UFC has now signed some Pride fighters like rampage and crocop but Pride still has the best fighters easily. Fedor is a beast.

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UFC is really amature night. Pride has the best fighters in the world. They are way above UFC. Majority of UFC fighters dont even have real skills. they arent martial artist. Chuck is decent but in Pride, he would be and was just another victim for top fighters. of course, UFC has now signed some Pride fighters like rampage and crocop but Pride still has the best fighters easily. Fedor is a beast.

I respectfully disagree. The heavyweight division has always been their bread and butter. Tim Sylvia would have a much more difficult time fighting against Pride heavyweights. Cro Cop should have the belt soon unless Sylvia does something unexpected. We have barely seen Tim tested at this point. At least to be deamed a champion of the world.

You might have a case for Pride's light heavyweight division until Rampage came in. Liddell is on fire right now. He is a much more confident and relaxed fighter than he was when he faught Rampage the first time. He likes fighting in America where the fans are out of control.

I'd like to see Shogun and Silva both come to the UFC. The atmosphere is so much better. I think Silva is a tad overrated. His knee-barrage against Rampage was a result of Rampage gassing, which is his weekness. If Liddell can take the fight to 3 or 4 rounds, Rampage will be in trouble. Otherwise, I think Liddell won't let Rampage's aggression get the best of him this time around.

Fedor is probably the most dominating force in MMA this day and age. I'd like to see him come in and fight Arlovski before he faces the loser of (the eventual) match between Sylvia and CroCop. CroCop and Fedor II would be amazing in the octagon.

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First off Fedor is hands down the baddest MFer in MMA today and possibly ever. The dude is a beast.

The first Pride fight I went to a couple months ago was pretty damn lame but last night was off the chain. Best display of MMA I've ever seen. That being said I don't believe Pride is head and shoulders above UFC. A lot of fighters who are busts in UFC go to Pride and excel. Diaz is a good example. Gomi was touted as the best pound for pound fighter in the world and Nick not only took his best shot but whooped his ass. Pride is what UFC used to be with the brutalness but without the stomps, kicks to the head when on the ground and all the other stuff not allowed by the UFC fighters have to be more sound in their perspective martial arts. Also I don't think Pride tests their competitors for roids the way the UFC does. That's why guys like Baroni left the UFC and went to Pride where he is a decent fighter.

That brings up a good question. Why are UFC fighters allowed to use elbows to the head but Pride in America isn't allowed to do so under Nevada rules? Seems kind of biased don't you think.

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That brings up a good question. Why are UFC fighters allowed to use elbows to the head but Pride in America isn't allowed to do so under Nevada rules? Seems kind of biased don't you think.

Pride chooses not to allow elbows regardless of where the venue is. Quick way to end a fight by doctor stoppage.

I'd like to see Shogun and Silva both come to the UFC. The atmosphere is so much better.

Pride rules > UFC's rules

Some of the fights yesterday would have had different results in Japan.

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UFC is really amature night. Pride has the best fighters in the world. They are way above UFC. Majority of UFC fighters dont even have real skills. they arent martial artist. Chuck is decent but in Pride, he would be and was just another victim for top fighters. of course, UFC has now signed some Pride fighters like rampage and crocop but Pride still has the best fighters easily. Fedor is a beast.

:troll:

Save your federation wars for sherdog.

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:troll:

Save your federation wars for sherdog.

Yeah, I agree. Enough of that BS.

As for the PPV, it looks like you all covered it, so there's not much for me to add. I personally hate Chutebox (they're a bunch of thugs) and Wandy, so it was nice to see him get KTFO, but in a way I was hoping he'd win so that we might get to see Wandy vs Lidell. Looks like that fight is never going to happen. :( I'm curious if they're going to give Wandy an immediate rematch, or if they'll let Shogun FINALLY get a title shot. I think it'd be pretty selfish of Silva not to let his boy at least get a chance for the belt.

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Yeah, I agree. Enough of that BS.

As for the PPV, it looks like you all covered it, so there's not much for me to add. I personally hate Chutebox (they're a bunch of thugs) and Wandy, so it was nice to see him get KTFO, but in a way I was hoping he'd win so that we might get to see Wandy vs Lidell. Looks like that fight is never going to happen. :( I'm curious if they're going to give Wandy an immediate rematch, or if they'll let Shogun FINALLY get a title shot. I think it'd be pretty selfish of Silva not to let his boy at least get a chance for the belt.

There is an interview with Silva up on sherdog. Near the end Silva says it is Shogun's time to make a run for the title. He is very humble in the interview. The other main points were:

He thinks he'll be fighting for 5 more years, but you never know.

He would like a rematch, but will fight anyone Pride wants him to. It is his job.

They asked him if his strep throat was a factor in the loss; he said it wasn't.

Silva is still very young at 30. huck and Hendo are in their primes right now at 37. Silva can easily recover from this, and I hope he does. It will probably be too late for a Chuck fight though. Maybe we'll get to see Chuck-Hendo and/or Chuck-Shogun.

After Rampage Chuck has nothing left in the UFC to add to his legacy at 205. He needs the likes of Shogun, Arona, and now maybe Hendo to build on his legacy. He gains nothing from beating the Evans', Jardine's, or Bisping's of the UFC.

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Silva is still very young at 30. huck and Hendo are in their primes right now at 37. Silva can easily recover from this, and I hope he does.

I've never trained in MMA, but know a few amateurs. There's age, and then there is fighting age. Many of them believe that Silva's best years are behind him. Even though he's only 30, he's been fighting a long time, and had some pretty bad fights and has taken some serious punishment over the years. They don't expect him to ever regain the prominence he once had. I'm not saying he couldn't beat Hendo in a rematch, but I agree that his best years are now behind him. Some fighters peak earlier than others.

I'm at work so haven't had a chance to watch the interview. I just know that I can't forgive Chutebox for that dispicable display they performed when charging the ring during the Mark Hunt/ Shogun fight. I'm glad he got his throat stepped on. I think Wandy should fight either Baroni or Hunt next. Probably Baroni since he could drop some weight and Silva could meet him somewhere in the middle. Hunt is not losing weight, that's for damn sure. :laugh:

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I've never trained in MMA, but know a few amateurs. There's age, and then there is fighting age. Many of them believe that Silva's best years are behind him. Even though he's only 30, he's been fighting a long time, and had some pretty bad fights and has taken some serious punishment over the years. They don't expect him to ever regain the prominence he once had. I'm not saying he couldn't beat Hendo in a rematch, but I agree that his best years are now behind him. Some fighters peak earlier than others.

I'm at work so haven't had a chance to watch the interview. I just know that I can't forgive Chutebox for that dispicable display they performed when charging the ring during the Mark Hunt/ Shogun fight. I'm glad he got his throat stepped on. I think Wandy should fight either Baroni or Hunt next. Probably Baroni since he could drop some weight and Silva could meet him somewhere in the middle. Hunt is not losing weight, that's for damn sure. :laugh:

I think you mean Marc Coleman.

I believe Shogun still wants the rematch, but I don't see th point. Coleman is done. Baroni-Silva would be great. Silva would knock his block off. But Baroni is fighting for Strikeforce next, and Dana said that if he beats Frank Shamrock in that fight He would be invited to the UFC.

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I think you mean Marc Coleman.

I believe Shogun still wants the rematch, but I don't see th point. Coleman is done. Baroni-Silva would be great. Silva would knock his block off. But Baroni is fighting for Strikeforce next, and Dana said that if he beats Frank Shamrock in that fight He would be invited to the UFC.

If he can stay off the juice. I believe that's why he doesn't fight in the UFC.

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I think you mean Marc Coleman.

I believe Shogun still wants the rematch, but I don't see th point. Coleman is done. Baroni-Silva would be great. Silva would knock his block off. But Baroni is fighting for Strikeforce next, and Dana said that if he beats Frank Shamrock in that fight He would be invited to the UFC.

Yes, you're right. My memory is apparently failing me. And the only thing I see with Silva fighting Coleman is the possibility that Coleman might be able to out muscle him. Again, very unlikely, but anything's possible.

If he can stay off the juice. I believe that's why he doesn't fight in the UFC.

I don't know that it's because he juices. It's because his performances sucked that badly. He gasses after the first round. If he doesn't knock out his opponent in the first 5-6 min's, it usually gets ugly fast.

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Pride 33 was the best mixed-martial-arts card I have ever seen. Some incredible matches and just an overall fantastic display of talent, I sincerely hope UFC puts together a few exciting cards such as this. My thoughts on the night are as follows:

Wanderlei Silva vs. Dan Henderson:

I'm going to be forthright from the get go, Silva is one of my favorite MMA fighters of all time. Ever since he left the UFC and joined PRIDE he has impressed me with his striking and clinching abilities. Yet ever since his loss to heavyweight Mark Hunt in 2004 I have seen a steady decline in his abilities. He allows himself to get taken down too much and doesnt do enough on the ground. Sadly, I think the fight with Hunt shook Silva and he has never regained his charisma and fire that he was so well known for. He landed several hard shots but Henderson dictated the fight. Henderson is a well-rounded fighter. He has a good chin, can stand up and swing (has fought good heavyweights) plus he can wrestle and grapple. The guy would be a serious player in the UFC but is getting up there in age.

Gomi vs. Nick Diaz

This fight was one of the oddest I have seen in a long time. Gomi has always been a smallish lightweight, he doesnt even drop weight before fights usually, he just stays around 155. Diaz is naturally 175ish so there was a clear physical advantage for Diaz. But none the less I thought Gomi was the HEAVY favorite and also the best lightweight in the world. I was impressed with Gomi's chin, he took some MONSTER shots but I think the reason he lost the fight was that he didnt have the endurance. The guy was completely gassed mid-way through the first round, he was so tired he couldnt even keep his hands up. I dont quite understand what happened b/c he has fought through some three rounds wars and has always had a lot of gas in the tank. I was stunned by the way Gomi fought, incredibly wreckless and without a game plan. I really dont understand. To his credit Diaz put on a show, he took some shots himself but didnt really show much of a defense. None the less he is a solid fighter and should be praised for his win. There is an upcoming lightweight tournament and I think Diaz should be apart of it. His size and strength will give opponents a tough time.

On the topic of Liddell:

Samuels, you said it beautifully, "chuck has serious power in both hands, even off-balance." Great point. What makes Liddell so unique as a striker is that he is able to come with incredible power going sideways, backwards, or forwards at the most unusual angles. Its hard to explain, you just have to see it for yourself. But he is one incredible striker and also shows skills avoiding take downs, like when he fought Tito last time. I think two years ago Wanderlei Silva would have been a problem for Liddell. He is stronger and more conditioned while also being faster. Silva is also a monster in the clinch but allows himself to take big punches. Liddell would have the opportunity to knock him out but it would have been a great fight. Sadly, Silva is beginning to decline and show signs of wear and tear.

Liddell is none the less a great fighter. Not very many fighters in the UFC could challenege him. There are two major players in MMA that would give him a run for his money though.

Quinton Jackson- Obviously the UFC recruited him partly because he is the last person to beat Liddell and a match between the two would be a huge PPV attraction. Rampage is a very good fighter but he isnt great. His game has some flows, his lack of versatility in MMA being a major one. Yet the man is a physical beast who can strike well and wear his opponents body down. Rampage is an upper echelon fighter who embarassed Liddell in there first fight, Liddell was confused and didnt seem to have the methodical calmness he usually displays. Although Liddell can strike with anybody in his weight class I think it would be in his advantage to work a lot of leg kicks. It has proven effective against Rampage before and Wanderlei Silva took advantage of that when he fought Rampage (twice). I'd work the leg kicks and use the jap if I were Liddell, pre-ocupy Rampage with the constant jab and leg kicks and then drop an overhand right on him. Would make for a great fight.

Mauricio "Shogun" Rua- This guy is one of top three in the world hands down. I think he is a better fighter then Rampage in all aspects (despite not being as strong and physicaly gifted). When the two fought, Rampage was thoroughly dominated in several minutes by big punches and big knees. Pure strikers like Rampage always seem to have trouble against well Muay Thai trained fighters which Rua is. He is great in the clinch, has an array of kicks, and is very good striker. He would give Liddell major problems and could be the number one light heavyweight in the world in my opinion.

On the statement made by KRSONE:

While I do agree that there is some major talent in Pride I do think the UFC is beginning to slowly emerge as the better orginization. In terms of top talent in each division it is pretty close with Pride having the slight edge possibly. But UFC has tremendous depth in almost all divisions. They are stock-piling talent and breeding young up and comers.

Prides heavyweight division is pretty spectacular but UFC is catching up. Pride has the number one heavyweight in the world, Fedor Emelianenko who is a warrior as well as Josh Barnett (formerly of the UFC who is still one of the best and a great brawler) and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria. All three may be better then both of UFC's best (before Cro Cop), Tim Sylvia and Andre Arlovsky. Yet with the addition of Cro Cop, who in my opinion is the #2 heavyweight in the world, the UFC has one great fighter and two very, very good fighters in Silva and Arlovsky. They also have Brandon Vera who could end up being great. Lastly, they just added Fabricio Werdrum from PRIDE who was one of their top fighters as well. The Heavyweight division has always been Prides best arguably but they have taken two massive hits by losing two top-ten heavyweights in the world to UFC.

UFC has also made giant leaps in improving their middle weight and light heavyweight divisions and while they have made improvements in both, I do believe PRIDE has the slight edge overall. But the UFC dominates the 170 pound weight class. They have some of the most marketable and talented fighters in the world compiled into one incredibly competitive weight class. Georges St.Pierre, BJ Penn, Matt Hughes, and quickly improving Diego Sanchez are all unbelieveable and so is Karo Parisian. That gives UFC some points as well. Overall i'd say both orginizations are very close in terms of talent.

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I've never trained in MMA, but know a few amateurs. There's age, and then there is fighting age. Many of them believe that Silva's best years are behind him. Even though he's only 30, he's been fighting a long time, and had some pretty bad fights and has taken some serious punishment over the years. They don't expect him to ever regain the prominence he once had. I'm not saying he couldn't beat Hendo in a rematch, but I agree that his best years are now behind him. Some fighters peak earlier than others.

I'm at work so haven't had a chance to watch the interview. I just know that I can't forgive Chutebox for that dispicable display they performed when charging the ring during the Mark Hunt/ Shogun fight. I'm glad he got his throat stepped on. I think Wandy should fight either Baroni or Hunt next. Probably Baroni since he could drop some weight and Silva could meet him somewhere in the middle. Hunt is not losing weight, that's for damn sure. :laugh:

I couldnt agree with you more about Silva. The guy is an old 30, he has been through wars and his body has taken a schilacking. I think there are clear signs of a decline and his best years are behind him. That being said, if her were to take six months off to let his body heal and then spent a three months getting back into shape we could see a rejuvenated fighter, sad to see such a good fighter decline though.

But in regards to your comments about his actions against Marc Coleman and Phil Baroni, I think he was completely justified. Coleman was in a rage and cotinued to attack and try to get to Rua after the fight had been stopped. Rua seriously injured his arm in a freak accident during the fight and Coleman was to outraged to realize the severity of the situation. Silva came in strictly to defend Rua and Baroni and Coleman made took it to the physical level. I think both Coleman and Baroni were really out of line and Coleman showed a complete lack of class or respect for MMA when he stepped on the throat of Silva when he had already been taken down by Baroni and was unable to defend himself. It goes against everything that I respect so much about MMA. Afterwards Coleman did apologize but Silva was still angry and didnt accept. He has vowed to get even.

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.....They also have Brandon Vera who could end up being great.....

Well, for one more fight anyway. It looks like Vera is gone after his next fight, the last on his deal. He has already turned down a contract extension that included a title fight. Unfortunately, I fear he is headed to one of the lower orgs that will pay him what he is looking for, i.e. Elite XC.

...But the UFC dominates the 170 pound weight class. ....

Pride doesn't have a 170 division.

You are right that the UFC 170 group is the best thing going in MMA right now. I just wish they would showcase them more. Hughes-Lytle is a complete joke. Karo needs to be on more main cards. He always makes a fight exciting. It makes me wonder if he is being punished for backing out of the Hughes fight because he was injured.

How awesome would a UFC welterweight GP be? Too bad Dana is completely soured on any type of tournament format.

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But in regards to your comments about his actions against Marc Coleman and Phil Baroni, I think he was completely justified. Coleman was in a rage and cotinued to attack and try to get to Rua after the fight had been stopped. Rua seriously injured his arm in a freak accident during the fight and Coleman was to outraged to realize the severity of the situation. Silva came in strictly to defend Rua and Baroni and Coleman made took it to the physical level. I think both Coleman and Baroni were really out of line and Coleman showed a complete lack of class or respect for MMA when he stepped on the throat of Silva when he had already been taken down by Baroni and was unable to defend himself. It goes against everything that I respect so much about MMA. Afterwards Coleman did apologize but Silva was still angry and didnt accept. He has vowed to get even.

Never enter the ring unless you are fighting. That's my opinion. It's the ref's job, not Silva's (or chutebox's). Yes, the injury was bad to Shogun, but I don't think Coleman honestly saw it. He definitely held on too long, but that happens. This is an intense sport, and Coleman is one of the most intense. And don't get me wrong, I'm not at all a Coleman fan. I hate 'roid/HGH freaks which is another reason I don't like Silva, as well as Baroni. Barnett is probably the only steroid user that I can stand, and I'm hoping he no longer juices, but I'm fairly confident that regardless of the testing that goes on in Vegas, they all still do. There's more money in finding new and undetected performance enhancing drugs than there is in creating the tests.

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I'd work the leg kicks and use the jap if I were Liddell, pre-ocupy Rampage with the constant jab and leg kicks and then drop an overhand right on him. Would make for a great fight.

Are you sure hitting people with Jap's is legal in the UFC? I think their might be a bit of an uproar if that was allowed to happen. :laugh:

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Huge difference in their than japs don't you think. Anyway, I do a pretty damn good job on the their, there, they're and damn good on the to and too's also.

You're (that's another one) right though, if you're going to clown on someone you should have your crap together. :doh:

You see I'm one of those people who visualize everything and I can see someone swinging a little japanese dude around the ring knocking people on their asses. Sick mind I know, or should I say, I no. :D

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