Sign in to follow this  
SUNSTONE

Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

Recommended Posts

Condit ran all night but he also simply scored way more strikes and took less damage. He just beat Diaz cleanly and tactically. Nick's last 3-4 fights proved outright that if you stand and bang with him, you get beat. Carlos didn't get beat.

This loss shouldn't tarnish Nick's career at all, although I was disappointed in his typical "I quit the biz" routine after the loss.

P.S.- It's Diaz' own fault that he didn't try to grapple more earlier.

Edited by Chachie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had Nick winning the 1st, 2nd, and 5th.

x2 that was my score card as well.

I personally just hate guys that come into a fight with the intent to win a decision. People can say what they want but Carlos hit and ran all night to me thats not a fighter. That is a guy trying to win a decision like a B_____. He was scared to go to the ground, scared to exchange and scared to try to finish the fight like a real fighter.

He did what he had to do to try to win but the scoring system needs to be fixed in my eyes the more aggressive guy should be awarded. Diaz was stalking him trying to cut off the ring all he did was keep running around I'm willing to bet he ran over a mile in that fight.

Now we get to watch GSP dry hump him for 5 rounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
x2 that was my score card as well.

I personally just hate guys that come into a fight with the intent to win a decision. People can say what they want but Carlos hit and ran all night to me thats not a fighter. That is a guy trying to win a decision like a B_____. He was scared to go to the ground, scared to exchange and scared to try to finish the fight like a real fighter.

He did what he had to do to try to win but the scoring system needs to be fixed in my eyes the more aggressive guy should be awarded. Diaz was stalking him trying to cut off the ring all he did was keep running around I'm willing to bet he ran over a mile in that fight.

Now we get to watch GSP dry hump him for 5 rounds.

UFC-Just-Bleed-Guy.jpg

Diaz didn't try to cut off the ring. All he did was walk forward and talk ****, that's not cutting off the ring. Diaz has one gameplan and it works when people are dumb enough to play his game, Condit fought smart. You want finishes & brawls, go watch Toughman Competitions.

Edited by StillUnknown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I that was Diaz cutting off the cage then he's certainly not very good at it. It looked to me like he was trying to be a bad ass and it blew up in his face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UFC-Just-Bleed-Guy.jpg

Diaz didn't try to cut off the ring. All he did was walk forward and talk ****, that's not cutting off the cage.

He was trying to cut off the cage and walk him down. Condit just followed his game plan and ran out back to the center everytime he got close to the cage. It was much like Edgar againest BJ quick combos then run.

I've sparred with guys that did'nt wanna exchange it sucks chasing a guy around to try to bang and you can never get off because of it.

The only thing Diaz could have done to prevent that was tie him up and dirty box. Condit was running around the cage you can't cut that off.

Edited by Samuels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He was trying to cut off the cage and walk him down. Condit just followed his game plan and ran out back to the center everytime he got close to the cage. It was much like Edgar againest BJ quick combos then run.

I've sparred with guys that did'nt wanna exchange it sucks chasing a guy around to try to bang and you can never get off because of it.

The only thing Diaz could have done to prevent that was tie him up and dirty box. Condit was running around the cage you can't cut that off.

There is always a counter, it was up to Diaz to spot it and adjust. Condit used the same move every time he spun off the cage, Diaz could've anticipated it and moved accordingly, but Diaz has a one track fighting mind. Its part of what makes him great, but it leaves him susceptible to those who choose to fight him smart.

Edited by StillUnknown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had rnds 1,2 & 5 for Diaz, and rounds 3 & 4 for Condit.

In the first 2 rounds it seemed like Diaz was landing the bigger shots, the more effective shots, while Condit would try to land a counter punch and then flee to the other side of the Octagon. Then in rounds 3 & 4 Condit got more confident and actually started coming forward and landing better and more effective punches and kicks. Round 5 was close, but Diaz's takedown and taking of Condit's back and actually going for submissions is what gave him the round.

It was a close fight though, I can see how judges could have given Rnd 1 to Condit just because not a ton of action happened overall.

If I was a judge and I am judging the first 2 rnds, I have to go with Diaz because he was the one constantly pressing the fight and being the aggressive one. Unlike Rounds 3 & 4 where even though Diaz was coming forward, Condit's output went up and he himself became a lot more aggressive with his striking and was landing significant strikes.

It seems that fighters that we are used to putting out a high volume of strikes almost get penalized when they don't. This fight kind of reminds me of Penn/Edgar 1, where I felt Penn still won a close fight and was seemingly penalized more for the fact that he didn't look like his usual self.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like everyone giving Diaz three rounds is totally ignoring the brutal leg kicks Condit was landing. We've all seen it time and time again, just how damaging leg kicks can be, Faber/Aldo, Machida/Rampage, the list goes on and on. Nick is a tough ****, no doubt, but as a judge you can't not count the leg kicks, especially when they're landing as hard as Condits. For every punch Nick was able to land, Condit landed two kicks, not to mention the strikes/counter strikes he landed as well. Everyone who thinks he should have just went in there and let Nick use his head for a speed bag just wanted to see Nick win. That was an excellent fight overall and an oustanding gameplan executed perfectly for Condit. I think Nick's ability to take the shots he took is more of a testament to his toughness than it is a knock on Condits power, we all know it's all but impossible to hurt that hard ass head of his.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is the following hating on Condit?

Yeah, exactly, I don't think either of us was hating on Condit. I just had the fight scored 1st, 2nd and 5th for Diaz like most other people. I do however have some hate for the current state of judging in MMA.

---------- Post added February-5th-2012 at 04:40 PM ----------

BTW, most pro fighters had the fight scored for Diaz as well:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/2/5/2772168/ufc-143-twitter-nick-diaz-vs-carlos-condit-pros-score

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had rnds 1,2 & 5 for Diaz, and rounds 3 & 4 for Condit.

In the first 2 rounds it seemed like Diaz was landing the bigger shots, the more effective shots, while Condit would try to land a counter punch and then flee to the other side of the Octagon. Then in rounds 3 & 4 Condit got more confident and actually started coming forward and landing better and more effective punches and kicks. Round 5 was close, but Diaz's takedown and taking of Condit's back and actually going for submissions is what gave him the round.

It was a close fight though, I can see how judges could have given Rnd 1 to Condit just because not a ton of action happened overall.

If I was a judge and I am judging the first 2 rnds, I have to go with Diaz because he was the one constantly pressing the fight and being the aggressive one. Unlike Rounds 3 & 4 where even though Diaz was coming forward, Condit's output went up and he himself became a lot more aggressive with his striking and was landing significant strikes.

It seems that fighters that we are used to putting out a high volume of strikes almost get penalized when they don't. This fight kind of reminds me of Penn/Edgar 1, where I felt Penn still won a close fight and was seemingly penalized more for the fact that he didn't look like his usual self.

I had it the exact same way.

Honestly I'd rather it been a draw and just let them fight again. Dana said he gave 1,2 to Diaz but not 5 lol.

It just sucks GSP will dry hump Condit for 25 minutes. Atleast with Diaz he is a major threat off his back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diaz only got out struck in the 3 of the 5 rounds but in round 1 he only got out struck by 3 punches. He controlled that round which is suppose to be octagon control, plus he was the more aggressive fighter. He out landed condit in round 2. Round 3 and 4 went to Condit. Round 5 Diaz took it by the take down and taking Condits back which is a dominant position. Thats 3 rounds to 2 for Diaz imo. I wanted to see Nick vs GSP, I don't see Condit giving GSP any fits he is not nearly as good as Diaz off his back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diaz only got out struck in the 3 of the 5 rounds but in round 1 he only got out struck by 3 punches. He controlled that round which is suppose to be octagon control, plus he was the more aggressive fighter. He out landed condit in round 2. Round 3 and 4 went to Condit. Round 5 Diaz took it by the take down and taking Condits back which is a dominant position. Thats 3 rounds to 2 for Diaz imo. I wanted to see Nick vs GSP, I don't see Condit giving GSP any fits he is not nearly as good as Diaz off his back.

I didn't give him round 5. He landed a take down but was badly countered for the majority of the round which included a few kicks to the face. His takedown doesn't negate the 2.5 minutes that came before it which he clearly lost. Let's also remember that he failed to do any damage on the ground and ended the round on the bottom. I can't see awarding him the round for that.

The Octagon control argument, IMO, doesn't work. He never had control of the fight. The Korean Zombie plows forward too but few would argue it results in control. Aggression is not control, effective aggression is the key and Diaz was anything but effective. While he was trying to show how much of a bad ass he was, he was getting out struck. He got hit with everything but the kitchen sink in this fight. Spinning back fists, knees, kicks, and punches. The fact he continued to plow forward isn't a point in his favor, it's shows that he had no strategy and continued to put himself into trouble. His leg and face showed the damage.. Condit looked mostly clean despite everyone arguing he took so many more hard shots (which is false).

Edited by Destino

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess we disagree, its not like condit was lighting nick up in the 5th round. Nick failed to do damage but he was going for the submission. I believe him taking Condit's back won him that round. That was the closest the fight came to ending. As for round 1, I believe he did take control he had Condit backing up the whole first round. Condit was uncharacteristically cautious that round and he only 3 more hits. Its not like he hit with anything significant that round. Condit did most his damage in round 3 and 4 thats when I believe he got that spinning back fist and in the 4th he landed that head kick. He won those rounds no doubt but only those rounds imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20.gif

Beautiful combo. I was more disappointed in his elusive strategy, even though it was absolutely the correct winning strategy for Carlos, than in the decision. I had round 2 going to Nick and rounds 3 & 4 going to Carlos for sure. The first and last rounds were up in the air. I was really really hoping Nick would start taking things to the ground in round 4 and 5, but he didn't (mainly because of the elusive Jackson strategy). If Nick really could have finished Carlos on the ground like he said he could have, then he should have. I would love a rematch serving also as Condit's title defense.

Nick came to win the fight, Carlos came to win the match. Carlos won the match, but the FIGHT in my eyes is a draw. Nick looked worse off after the fight was over. I am really really impressed in both these guys' endurance and cardio. That has something to do with the lack of action and grappling (compared to what it could have been and what people were expecting it to be).

If Condit fights GSP, it's probably going to be the opposite of what people think it will be. I don't think it'll be a 5 round jab/clinch fest. Carlos isn't afraid of unleashing some combos here and there, and we really haven't seen GSP with that killer instinct in a while. It could come out in GSP's next fight if Condit gets a little flashy (hopefully!!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess we disagree, its not like condit was lighting nick up in the 5th round. Nick failed to do damage but he was going for the submission. I believe him taking Condit's back won him that round. That was the closest the fight came to ending. As for round 1, I believe he did take control he had Condit backing up the whole first round. Condit was uncharacteristically cautious that round and he only 3 more hits. Its not like he hit with anything significant that round. Condit did most his damage in round 3 and 4 thats when I believe he got that spinning back fist and in the 4th he landed that head kick. He won those rounds no doubt but only those rounds imo.

The takedown and back take was enough to warrant the 5th round to Diaz IMO. Taking the back is arguably the most dominant position on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[/img]

Beautiful combo. I was more disappointed in his elusive strategy, even though it was absolutely the correct winning strategy for Carlos, than in the decision. I had round 2 going to Nick and rounds 3 & 4 going to Carlos for sure. The first and last rounds were up in the air. I was really really hoping Nick would start taking things to the ground in round 4 and 5, but he didn't (mainly because of the elusive Jackson strategy). If Nick really could have finished Carlos on the ground like he said he could have, then he should have. I would love a rematch serving also as Condit's title defense.

Nick came to win the fight, Carlos came to win the match. Carlos won the match, but the FIGHT in my eyes is a draw. Nick looked worse off after the fight was over. I am really really impressed in both these guys' endurance and cardio. That has something to do with the lack of action and grappling (compared to what it could have been and what people were expecting it to be).

If Condit fights GSP, it's probably going to be the opposite of what people think it will be. I don't think it'll be a 5 round jab/clinch fest. Carlos isn't afraid of unleashing some combos here and there, and we really haven't seen GSP with that killer instinct in a while. It could come out in GSP's next fight if Condit gets a little flashy (hopefully!!)

GSP will completely out grapple Condit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm gonna get heavily ridiculed for this, but I think Condit will KO a cage rusty GSP.

GSP is gonna dry hump him for 25 minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one expects either Diaz or Condit to avoid being taken down by GSP, I think the main difference is what would happen once they were taken down.

Diaz has shown that he can work from the bottom position, and turn it into a strength and even reverse position very quickly.

Condit on the other hand, if he is taken down I don't see anything in his game that suggests he is going to do anything but get humped and held until he is frustrated into taking risks and makes a mistake or just loses all the rounds.

Everyone is marveling that Condit had a great strategy of scampering and avoiding Diaz and then blaming Diaz for not running after him like a wild animal when it was obvious that by Condit fleeing, he was trying to bait Diaz into running after him wild and undisciplined and trick him into taking punishment.

I still stand by my assessment that Nick won the fight by winning rounds 1,2 & 5, I just don't feel it was "highway robbery" or "hate Condit" due to the outcome going the other way because I think Round 1 was close due to neither fighter's output being very high.

I think a similar fight that ended close is Faber/Cruz. Cruz out-volumed Faber, but it seemed like Faber was the one landing the harder more effective shots (dropping Cruz twice) while Cruz was concentrating mostly on throwing a quick punch and then moving away and disengaging for 5 straight rounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good assessment, Mike. I thought Condit did enough to win without really "fighting" Diaz so we generally agree on how the fight was fought, just not how it was won. Very close fight. I gave Condit the 5th rd even though he was taken down. Before that and shortly after that takedown he was starting to tag Diaz with mean shots.

Edited by Chachie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a point of reference, IMO..lets say Round 1, Condit outstrikes Diaz 23-20, however Diaz was the one pressing the fight, chasing Condit constantly, walking him down, being the one dictating the fight. I would favor the round for Diaz.

Now lets say the round goes the same way, but Condit outstrikes Diaz 35-20. In that case you have to give it to Condit because he landed an overwhelmingly majority of the strikes which negates the other factors listed in the above round.

I don't like judging a fight based on the metrics alone because sometimes when you have rounds where the strikes landed is very close, it isn't telling the entire story of how the round went down.

Rounds 3 & 4 Condit was overwhelmingly beating Diaz, but I think the other 3 rounds there is a strong case to suggest Diaz won them, yet Rogan/Goldberg were bailing on Diaz simply because he wasn't hitting Condit up against the cage with 100 punches.

Edited by NoCalMike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick+Diaz+Taunts+and+Slaps+Carlos+Condit+UFC+143+Cut.gif

Slaptastic!

Also, an excellent and technical head kick that did exactly what it is supposed to do

stephen-thompson-ko.gif

Edited by styx491

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GSP is gonna dry hump him for 25 minutes.

You know sometimes that dry humping causes a lot of damage.

Josh after his dry humping left him with a nerve damaged face:

Koscheck%252C+Josh+%2528swollen+right+eye+courtesy+of+GSP%2527s+left+jab+at+UFC+124+noncloseup%2529.jpg

Jon Fitch dry hump damage.

6869-JonFitch_0133.jpg

I can't find a picture of BJ Penn but he threw in the towel, I guess dry humping wasn't his thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.