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SUNSTONE

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I know some people would wanna argue for Fedor, but IMO there are too many fighters out there that Fedor isn't fighting, he is beating scrubs right now so I am very skeptical on him until he proves himself against the elite.

:wtf: Let me get this straight, your contention is that Fedor hasn't "proven" himself against the elite??? Who does he need to fight to "prove" himself in your eyes?

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I agree, GSP has the perfect balance of size, speed and technique. You could easily argue that pound for pound GSP is the best fighter in the world right now,

I am NOT trying to take GSP out of the top 5 P4P discussion at all, but-

The man was knocked out not long ago by Matt freaking Serra. I'm sorry but that eliminates him from #1 status.

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I am NOT trying to take GSP out of the top 5 P4P discussion at all, but-

The man was knocked out not long ago by Matt freaking Serra. I'm sorry but that eliminates him from #1 status.

Not too long ago, April of 07 is two years and 6 fights ago and he avenged his loss in dominating fashion. GSP admittadly took Serra lightly and got caught. Noticed how he hasn't been caught since. BJ has lost three times since March 06. You can't use the "BJ fought a bigger guy" card to ignore three losses in three years but ignore the fact that GSP has only lost once in over four years.

With GSP's overall skill set being as well rounded as it is I don't see how you can't elevate him above BJ. BJ is a great striker and BJJ. Besides GSP's suspect chin what aspect of the game is he not great in?

Fedor with a slight edge to Silva over GSP. I'm almost tempted to put GSP over Silva with the pathetic dislplay he put on with Leites.

Edited by ZoEd

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I am NOT trying to take GSP out of the top 5 P4P discussion at all, but-

The man was knocked out not long ago by Matt freaking Serra. I'm sorry but that eliminates him from #1 status.

So? Anderson Silva was beaten with a flying leglock outta nowhere, along with 3 other losses.

BJ Penn has lost several fights, including 2 to GSP, Fedor isn't fighting top competition.

Only losses GSP has are to Matt Hughes who he destroyed in 2 fights since, and to Serra who he also destroyed in the rematch....who would you put above GSP?

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:wtf: Let me get this straight, your contention is that Fedor hasn't "proven" himself against the elite??? Who does he need to fight to "prove" himself in your eyes?

Fedor has fought some top fighters in pride, most of which couldn't make it in the UFC.

Can he dominate Brock, Frank Mir, Shane Carwin from the UFC just to name a few?

He was eating punches from Arloveski before he caught him with a crazy punch and he was getting beat on by Brett frikin Rodgers...Fedor is no doubt a top fighter but IMO he is not THE top fighter.

It looks really shady when he is given everything he asked for from the UFC but still doesn't join because of "marketing rights" ....I won't say he is ducking top opponents, but, lots of people consider him the best in the world and it is much easier to keep that title fighting the scrubs he is fighting.

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Just curious, aside from Brock Lesnar who else would Fedor have to fight to make you not so skeptical? Who exactly is he not fighting that's so great?

I can't think of anyone in the UFC's HW division that would pose a real threat to him besides Lesnar.

I'd like to see him fight Brock, Carwin, Mir, Cain Veasquez, would have loved to see him fight Couture when he was in his prime, or any of the guys that destroyed Arloveski and Sylvia from the UFC since those guys are "top 10 in the world".

So, I answered you, answer my question now.

Who is Fedor fighting that is so great? Rogers is his best win in years and even Rogers, who gave Fedor a run for his money, is very raw and unproven.

Edited by Bat~man

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Fedor has fought some top fighters in pride, most of which couldn't make it in the UFC.

Can he dominate Brock, Frank Mir, Shane Carwin from the UFC just to name a few?

He was eating punches from Arloveski before he caught him with a crazy punch and he was getting beat on by Brett frikin Rodgers...Fedor is no doubt a top fighter but IMO he is not THE top fighter.

It looks really shady when he is given everything he asked for from the UFC but still doesn't join because of "marketing rights" ....I won't say he is ducking top opponents, but, lots of people consider him the best in the world and it is much easier to keep that title fighting the scrubs he is fighting.

top 10 fighters are not scrubs

fedor just fought someone like Carwin, his name was Bret Rogers (an undefeated fighter with 1 good win on his resume, the exact same as Carwin)

Edited by StillUnknown

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in fedor's last 3 fights he's beaten 1 man who was top consensus top 3 in division, 1 man who was top 5 in the division, and one who was top 10

but you're right, he was fighting "scrubs"

Who are you talking about? Arloveski? Tim Sylvia? BreTT ROdgers? lol come on man 2 of those guys got laughed out of the UFC, the other wouldn't make it there.

You see what happened to another great pride heavyweight who was supposed to DOMINATE the ufc...Cro-Cop...

Im not saying Fedor is garbage, but he has NOT been fighting top competition, I don't care what rankings say, ROdgers, Arloveski and Sylvia are not top fighters

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top 10 fighters are not scrubs

fedor just fought someone like Carwin, his name was Bret Rogers (an undefeated fighter with 1 good win on his resume, the exact same as Carwin)

If your top 10 fighters highlights are brett rogers then that is not saying much for being the best in the world. Fedor has dominated some great fighters in pride, but not many of them are doing much in the UFC right now.

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Who are you talking about? Arloveski? Tim Sylvia? BreTT ROdgers? lol come on man 2 of those guys got laughed out of the UFC, the other wouldn't make it there.

I don't care what rankings say, ROdgers, Arloveski and Sylvia are not top

fighters

its easy not to care when they destroy your argument

directly before they fought Fedor:

tim sylvia was top 5 on most rankings, top 10 on all

Arlovski was 2nd on most, top 3 on all

Rogers was on the bottom of the top 10 of all rankings (with a resume that was identical to Carwin, whom you seem to be touting)

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If your top 10 fighters highlights are brett rogers then that is not saying much for being the best in the world. Fedor has dominated some great fighters in pride, but not many of them are doing much in the UFC right now.

that Nogueira fellow seems to be doing fine

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its easy not to care when they destroy your argument

directly before they fought Fedor:

tim sylvia was top 5 on most rankings, top 10 on all

Arlovski was 2nd on most, top 3 on all

Rogers was on the bottom of the top 10 of all rankings (with a resume that was identical to Carwin, whom you seem to be touting)

Destroyed by arguing that Arloveski and Sylvia are top 10 fighters in the world?? OK , say I agree and they ARE top ten, then how much better are the fighters in the UFC for DESTROYING them so bad that they arent there anymore? And Roy Mercer for one shotting Sylvia and the guy who one shotted Arloveski recently?

To me, if they ARE top ten then it validates my point of him not fighting the top competition from the UFC, who embarrassed those 2 "great" fighters.

Edited by Bat~man

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that Nogueira fellow seems to be doing fine

He's doing ok, and he lost to Fedor, I won't argue that or try to take away from that win or ANY of Fedors wins.

It is just he is NOT fighting the best right now therefore he is not the best there is. He never even fought Couture, which now wouldn't matter since he is washed up.

**edit** Looking at Fedors wins in pride, the only one doing anything in the UFC is Nog (who has been up and down there)...the rest couldn't make it. Cro-Cop, Herring...won't even count Coleman tho because he is like 78 years old.

Edited by Bat~man

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Dana wanted complete control over Fedor just like he wants over all his fighters. Fedor wanted to continue to compete in Sambo competitions in Russia and that was a no go from Dana. Fedor's people also wanted to co-promote, Dana wouldn't budge on that either. If Dana wanted him bad enough he would have made it happen. The way Hendo jumped ship, Tito and Couture wanting out and only coming back for the money; Dana obviously is a douche to the fighters behind closed doors.

Sure he's great at marketing and blah, blah, blah. However it's just like Dan Snyder in DC, this is a sport where you make money off of grown ass men sacraficing their bodies for entertainment, you can't treat them with indignity or sooner or later they'll all jump ship.

The UFC has never allowed anyone to co-promote and this prevents matchups of the greates fighters in the world. Just like Hendo said, for some it's not about the money.

BTW, Brett Rodgers has some sick hands for a HW and a lot of fighters in the UFC would struggle against them. He has one punch knock out power and has proven against everyone he fought accept Fedor.

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Dana wanted complete control over Fedor just like he wants over all his fighters. Fedor wanted to continue to compete in Sambo competitions in Russia and that was a no go from Dana. Fedor's people also wanted to co-promote, Dana wouldn't budge on that either. If Dana wanted him bad enough he would have made it happen. The way Hendo jumped ship, Tito and Couture wanting out and only coming back for the money; Dana obviously is a douche to the fighters behind closed doors.

Sure he's great at marketing and blah, blah, blah. However it's just like Dan Snyder in DC, this is a sport where you make money off of grown ass men sacraficing their bodies for entertainment, you can't treat them with indignity or sooner or later they'll all jump ship.

The UFC has never allowed anyone to co-promote and this prevents matchups of the greates fighters in the world. Just like Hendo said, for some it's not about the money.

BTW, Brett Rodgers has some sick hands for a HW and a lot of fighters in the UFC would struggle against them. He has one punch knock out power and has proven against everyone he fought accept Fedor.

No you're wrong, Dana gave him everything he wanted except "co-promotion" and I agree with Dana, why the hell should they profit off the UFCs hard work? He said Fedor could fight weekly wherever he wanted as long as he fulfilled his UFC fights, which is funny because they didn't get Fedor when pride broke because of that, now Dana said he can have that and they pull this "50% co-promotion" junk outta nowhere when they offered Fedor an insane amount of money already...thats a joke.

Brett Rodgers would pose problems I agree, but so does Shane Carwin and he HAS proven it against EVERY fighter he has faced, and he isn't even the UFC champ.

The point is, Fedor is the best fighter OUTSIDE of the UFC, no way anyone can argue that. Is he is the best in the world? I dont know nor does anyone else because he IS NOT fighting the best in the world. The people that are blindly claiming he is are prolly the same ones who said Cro-Cop would mow the UFC down, and we see how that turned out.

Fedor hasn't fought anyone worthy in years and we will never know if he really IS the best out there because he has yet to face the top fighters from the UFC, the same fighters who laughed the guys Fedor has beaten recently out of the UFC.

Edited by Bat~man

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No you're wrong, Dana gave him everything he wanted except "co-promotion" and I agree with Dana, why the hell should they profit off the UFCs hard work? He said Fedor could fight weekly wherever he wanted as long as he fulfilled his UFC fights.

Brett Rodgers would pose problems I agree, but so does Shane Carwin and he HAS proven it against EVERY fighter he has faced, and he isn't even the UFC champ.

The point is, Fedor is the best fighter OUTSIDE of the UFC, no way anyone can argue that. Is he is the best in the world? I dont know nor does anyone else because he IS NOT fighting the best in the world. The people that are blindly claiming he is are prolly the same ones who said Cro-Cop would mow the UFC down, and we see how that turned out.

Fedor hasn't fought anyone worthy in years and we will never know if he really IS the best out there because he has yet to face the top fighters from the UFC, the same fighters who laughed the guys Fedor has beaten recently out of the UFC.

Who in the UFC is better?

Fedor doesn't just win he finishes fights. Of his 31 wins he's only went to decision 7 times. On top of that he used to be feared for his subs but recently he's chosen to just knock your ass out. No one has a win loss record for as long as Fedor, not even close.

As for the negotiations, the first time Dana tried to sign him he said he couldn't fight outside the UFC. The last time he tried he said they wanted to co-promote and he said no. The dude is making so much freaking money and would make a ton off of a Fedor against anybody fight that he's just being stubborn, plain and simple. You also only have Dana's side of the story, I believe him as far as I can throw him. He's got a track record for being truthful. :doh:

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Who in the UFC is better?

Fedor doesn't just win he finishes fights. Of his 31 wins he's only went to decision 7 times. On top of that he used to be feared for his subs but recently he's chosen to just knock your ass out. No one has a win loss record for as long as Fedor, not even close.

As for the negotiations, the first time Dana tried to sign him he said he couldn't fight outside the UFC. The last time he tried he said they wanted to co-promote and he said no. The dude is making so much freaking money and would make a ton off of a Fedor against anybody fight that he's just being stubborn, plain and simple. You also only have Dana's side of the story, I believe him as far as I can throw him. He's got a track record for being truthful. :doh:

The thing is you or I do not know who is better, because they aren't fighting.

I'm not taking ANYTHING away from what Fedor has done, and Fedor was number one in the world at 1 time for a reason, he was a beast NO way around it.

The ONLY point I'm making is, he can't claim that anymore, because the UFC is proven to have MUCH better fighters than anyone Fedor has beaten in years. I have already named who I would liek to see him fight, I named 4 of the top of my head...which is plenty more than strikeforce has.

I wouldn't agree to co promote either, they want to make money off of all of UFCs fights with only having one fighter there? Thats retarded, they gave him what he orginally wanted then m1-global changed it up and asked for more, call dana whatever you want but that is horribly greedy and only hurts Fedor.

**edit** Since I named who I want Fedor to fight for you, answer me this. Who was the last fighter that Fedor has beaten that is better than anyone in the ufc? Name one.

Edited by Bat~man

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The point is, Fedor is the best fighter OUTSIDE of the UFC, no way anyone can argue that. Is he is the best in the world? I dont know nor does anyone else because he IS NOT fighting the best in the world. The people that are blindly claiming he is are prolly the same ones who said Cro-Cop would mow the UFC down, and we see how that turned out.

Fedor hasn't fought anyone worthy in years and we will never know if he really IS the best out there because he has yet to face the top fighters from the UFC, the same fighters who laughed the guys Fedor has beaten recently out of the UFC.

i think the disconnect we have is that you're using how Sylvia & Arlovski have looked after their fights to argue fedor still isn't fighting top comp. i dont think its fair to Fedor, or any other fighter to do that. the fact is, when they fought Fedor, Sylvia, Arlovski & Roger were amongst "the best in the world". how they look in subsequent bouts is just about irrelevant in my eyes, otherwise you could diminish the wins of just about any other fighter you choose

Edited by StillUnknown

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i think the disconnect we have is that you're using how Sylvia & Arlovski have looked after their fights to argue fedor still isn't fighting top comp. i dont think its fair to Fedor, or any other fighter to do that. the fact is, when they fought Fedor, Sylvia, Arlovski & Roger were amongst "the best in the world". how they look in subsequent bouts is just about irrelevant in my eyes, otherwise you could diminish the wins of just about any other fighter you choose

No, I'm sorry, when they fought Fedor they were already beaten out of the UFC. They got laughed out of there, the ONLY thing they have done since losing to Fedor was get KOed by a noname and by an old retired boxer.

Everyone who has watched MMA for a while knew WHEN they fought Fedor that they were jokes. Tell me, how to you get beat out of an organization like the UFC and all of a sudden become ranked top ten in the world? I'm sorry, you can argue Fedor is the best or whatever you like but there is no argument for those 2 guys being top ten at all.

Edited by Bat~man

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No, I'm sorry, when they fought Fedor they were already beaten out of the UFC. They got laughed out of there, the ONLY thing they have done since losing to Fedor was get KOed by a noname and by an old retired boxer.

Everyone who has watched MMA for a while knew WHEN they fought Fedor that they were jokes. Tell me, how to you get beat out of an organization like the UFC and all of a sudden become ranked top ten in the world? I'm sorry, you can argue Fedor is the best or whatever you like but there is no argument for those 2 guys being top ten at all.

Arlovski won his last 3 fights in the UFC

but dont let that stop you from thinking he was beaten out of the UFC

Edited by StillUnknown

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Arlovski won his last 3 fights in the UFC

but dont let that stop you from thinking he was beaten out of the UFC

It doesn't, because looking up his stats on wikipedia doesn't show you what kind of fighter he was, Dana let him go for a reason. God forbid you actually watch the fights.

But I'll go ahead and let the Fedor Fanboi's claim he is number one in the world without fighting guys like Lesnar, Couture, Mir ,Carwin, Velasquez, Junior Dos Santos....hell even Kongo or Gonzaga. He is number one beating has beens.

I'm sorry, I like talking MMA with people who actually watch MMA and aren't just fans of a certain fighter, its obvious it isn't here.

Edited by Bat~man

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The thing is you or I do not know who is better, because they aren't fighting.

I'm not taking ANYTHING away from what Fedor has done, and Fedor was number one in the world at 1 time for a reason, he was a beast NO way around it.

The ONLY point I'm making is, he can't claim that anymore, because the UFC is proven to have MUCH better fighters than anyone Fedor has beaten in years. I have already named who I would liek to see him fight, I named 4 of the top of my head...which is plenty more than strikeforce has.

I wouldn't agree to co promote either, they want to make money off of all of UFCs fights with only having one fighter there? Thats retarded, they gave him what he orginally wanted then m1-global changed it up and asked for more, call dana whatever you want but that is horribly greedy and only hurts Fedor.

**edit** Since I named who I want Fedor to fight for you, answer me this. Who was the last fighter that Fedor has beaten that is better than anyone in the ufc? Name one.

Fedor's people didn't want to co-promote all of the UFC's fights, where did you get that from? They wanted to co-promote Fedor's fights, getting a cut from Fedor's fame and marketability. I personally don't see anything wrong with that.

Personally I think Brett Rogers has a punchers chance against anyone in the HW division in the UFC accept maybe Brock and only because of his size. He could knock out Big Nog, Kongo, and as much as I like Cain and Mir his standup is enough to take them out as well. Arlovski wasn't laughed out of the UFC, his contract was up and he was sick of being jerked around. He said Dana and the Fertatta's would offer him fights, he'd start training just to be jumped. Arlovski would still be a "gate keeper" in the HW division in the UFC and would still be an upper tier fighter.

Mir has done nothing but impress me with his stand up as of late and is definitely becoming a more dangerous fighter. The added weight would be a huge help against Brock but I think he's too much in his head. I don't see him beating Fedor either.

Cain and Carwin both stand a chance but I think Fedor beats them both with his experience.

Personally I think the only true competition for Fedor would be Brock because of his size. What I find funny is that in every other sport in the world people are called cheaters for using PED's but Brock is given a free pass because he never got caught. HGH is a PED! Looking at Fedor's physique I don't think he's used anything but vodka, sledge hammers and truck tires to get where he's at.

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It doesn't, because looking up his stats on wikipedia doesn't show you what kind of fighter he was, Dana let him go for a reason. God forbid you actually watch the fights.

But I'll go ahead and let the Fedor Fanboi's claim he is number one in the world without fighting guys like Lesnar, Couture, Mir ,Carwin, Velasquez, Junior Dos Santos....hell even Kongo or Gonzaga. He is number one beating has beens.

I'm sorry, I like talking MMA with people who actually watch MMA and aren't just fans of a certain fighter, its obvious it isn't here.

i watch as many fights as anyone here

Arlovski wasnt resigned mainly because Dana and the rest of the MMA was still pissed at him for the abomination that was the 3rd Arlovski/Sylvia fight and he followed that up with another boring fight against Werdum.

that doesn't change that he was not "beaten" out of the UFC as you wrongly suggested

and for the record, Fedor probably wouldn't crack my top 10 favorite fighters

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It doesn't, because looking up his stats on wikipedia doesn't show you what kind of fighter he was, Dana let him go for a reason. God forbid you actually watch the fights.

But I'll go ahead and let the Fedor Fanboi's claim he is number one in the world without fighting guys like Lesnar, Couture, Mir ,Carwin, Velasquez, Junior Dos Santos....hell even Kongo or Gonzaga. He is number one beating has beens.

I'm sorry, I like talking MMA with people who actually watch MMA and aren't just fans of a certain fighter, its obvious it isn't here.

Easy killer, lets not get all butt hurt. We are talking MMA and we all watch fights. Speaking of watching fights, how can you watch Fedor totally destroy his opponents and not recognize his talent? Don't start bashing people because of you're hatred for Fedor. See, it goes both ways.

I'm not a Fedor fanboi and I wasn't buying into the hype until I actually got to watch him fight. Seeing the power he has in his hands I honestly don't know what you're watching.

Edited by ZoEd

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