Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[StillUnknown]

gotta love the upkick to triangle combo

[Destino]

BJ, GSP, and Spider have no real competition at the moment. Kind of sucks because that is three of 5 weight classes that are locked down.

[StillUnknown]

if only Jose Aldo were a 155lbs.......

lol

[hailtotheskins69]

BJ, GSP, and Spider have no real competition at the moment. Kind of sucks because that is three of 5 weight classes that are locked down.

Pretty much, that fight was insane. BJ Penn is a monster. I don't see the belt changing waists in either of those 3 divisions for a while. Silva will probably retire as the Middleweight Champ.

[StillUnknown]

that cut opened the instant bj's leg connected with his face

Edited December 13, 2009 by StillUnknown

[Sebowski]

Very impressed by Florian, Mir, and the p4p contender BJ Penn.

I have them:

Tied for 1: Anderson, Fedor, BJ

Tied for after that: GSP, Machida

It will be hard for me to get excitexd about BJ and anyone at 155. Edgar or Maynard would get killed. Su summed up the putsiders perfectly:

he would murder Aoki standing

he would beat Alvarez standing & on the ground

I am not far away from wanting to see BJ back at 170. I'd rather see BJ vs the 170 contenders (Fitch, Alves, Kos...) instead of anyone at 155

[Chris0894]

you can download the fights here,

pretty cool site

Edited December 13, 2009 by Chris0894

[herrmag]

Just watched the fight (bought the PPV, had to DVR it and stayed up til 530 am to watch it)

1. KenFlo is legit. Impressed me finally. Too bad he has no shot at the title.

2. Frank Mir is scary. He's going to beat Lesnar (yes, I know, I'm crazy). He NOW probably weighs close to 300 lbs. with water weight (will help him to get up when Brock is laying on him). Lesnar should be worried assuming he comes back (Kongo is not a contender, but when you're bested at your ONLY strength, which is not Mir's best strength.....)

3. BJ.....P4P in the top 3. Probably the most talented of all the top 3. Nobody can argue against his cardio. He needs a rematch with GSP, though needs 2 fights prior to get his cardio up with that extra baggage. Not saying he'd win, but he'd put on a better performance.

All in all, one of the best PPV's UFC has ever put on. Glad I bought it despite not being able to watch it live.

EDIT: BJ beat Diego to the center of the octagon EVERY round, including the first. Scary when something so insignificant motivates a fighter to care enough to do it, and still kick the hell (literally) out of someone.

Edited December 13, 2009 by herrmag

[Chachie]

3. BJ.....P4P in the top 3. Probably the most talented of all the top 3. Nobody can argue against his cardio. He needs a rematch with GSP, though needs 2 fights prior to get his cardio up with that extra baggage. Not saying he'd win, but he'd put on a better performance.

They should fight at a catch weight, but GSP won the first two fights so why prove anything now?

[#98QBKiller]

that cut opened the instant bj's leg connected with his face

BJ has a knack for opening guys up like that. When he fought Joe Stevenson and dropped the elbow that opened that gash above his eye, you could see the blood splatter in real time. You usually have to watch a fight in slo mo to see that kind of stuff but that elbow was so brutal it was like watching a fight scene in a Tarantino movie.

Very impressed by Florian, Mir, and the p4p contender BJ Penn.

I have them:

Tied for 1: Anderson, Fedor, BJ

Tied for after that: GSP, Machida

I just don't see Machida in the P4P list anymore after he got worked over by Shogun. I think that fight exposed some weaknesses that can be exploited in his game now. The real question for me is if he comes back prepared to handle Shogun's game plan.

And I think GSP should be put up there with the rest of them. He's avenged the Matt Serra loss in impressive fashion and defended convincingly against top contenders. He's not the same fighter he was in 2007 and that's scary because he's getting better with every fight.

All in all, one of the best PPV's UFC has ever put on. Glad I bought it despite not being able to watch it live.

That was a damn good PPV. I was seriously on the verge of not ordering it, but I caved at the last minute like I always do and I'm glad I did.

Edited December 13, 2009 by #98QBKiller

[ZoEd]

Good card for sure, minus the Struv fight, it shouldn't have been on the main at all.

Mir carried the extra weight really well. Didn't slow his hands at all and gave him a lot more power. Frank not needing his ground game is indeed scary. Konga whinning about not getting a title shot was a joke. Dude got worked.

BJ put on a clinic last night, never looked worried at all and was the calmest I've ever seen him in the octagon.

As for P4P, BJ's butt whipping by GSP puts a dent in his status IMO. For me it's

Fedor

GSP

Anderson

Fedor for obvious reasons and GSP because I think he's steadiy evolved with every single fight and IMO has the most complete skill set of any fighter in the game.

[Patrick86L]

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/ufc-107-teh-gifs-1114543/

[Destino]

The only hope BJ has against GSP is to make it a stand up war and land a heavy hand. GSP can take him down at will and BJ can't stop the take down or get back up. I don't anticipate another fight between the two any time soon. BJ doesn't want to take another beating like that and for GSP the fight offers no upside, he's already won twice.

[StillUnknown]

^^^BJ before the start of the 5th round. BJ's crazy>>>>>>>>Diego's crazy. now that i think about it, BJ might have hit himself more times than Diego hit him

i see no reason for GSP/Penn III. i hate seeing a third match when someone has already won the first two (unless the fighter who is down 2-0 has the belt, and the other guy is the rightful challenger). it does nothing but give the person who's down 2-0 an opportunity to sleep better at night

Edited December 13, 2009 by StillUnknown

[Sebowski]

3. BJ.....P4P in the top 3. Probably the most talented of all the top 3. Nobody can argue against his cardio. He needs a rematch with GSP, though needs 2 fights prior to get his cardio up with that extra baggage. Not saying he'd win, but he'd put on a better performance.

I don't have much interest in that fight. GSP is just too big for BJ.

As for P4P, BJ's butt whipping by GSP puts a dent in his status IMO. For me it's

That fight has no merit in the p4p discussion for me. GSP's main weapon was his size advantage. You can't take anything from that when you are talking p4p.

[TheGoodBits]

I don't have much interest in that fight. GSP is just too big for BJ.

That fight has no merit in the p4p discussion for me. GSP's main weapon was his size advantage. You can't take anything from that when you are talking p4p.

Exactly the point I was going to make. GSP basically just sat on him and smashed his face in the whole fight. He probably outweighed him by 15 pounds by the time they entered the octagon.

[ZoEd]

I don't have much interest in that fight. GSP is just too big for BJ.

That fight has no merit in the p4p discussion for me. GSP's main weapon was his size advantage. You can't take anything from that when you are talking p4p.

You can't blame GSP for that. Smaller guys beat bigger guys all the time, guess Brock will never be seen as a P4P fighter if he continues to win because of his size? BJ has fought LHW, I fail to see your point.

BJ's takedown defense and BJJ was supposed to be so superior that it would nulify GSP's size. BJ got pounded, plain and simple. He took the fight thinking he could win it, he didn't and GSP did. How can that not elevate GSP above BJ?

[TheGoodBits]

You can't blame GSP for that. Smaller guys beat bigger guys all the time, guess Brock will never be seen as a P4P fighter if he continues to win because of his size? BJ has fought LHW, I fail to see your point.

BJ's takedown defense and BJJ was supposed to be so superior that it would nulify GSP's size. BJ got pounded, plain and simple. He took the fight thinking he could win it, he didn't and GSP did. How can that not elevate GSP above BJ?

I would argue that in terms of P4P, GSP is a little ahead of BJ. But not way ahead like their last fight would seem to indicate. P4P is supposed to be weight-neutral, and clearly that last fight was not. GSP used his size advantage to dominate the fight. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't really use it as a benchmark for comparing the 2 fighting at their ideal weights, which for GSP is 170 and for BJ is 155.

[ZoEd]

I would argue that in terms of P4P, GSP is a little ahead of BJ. But not way ahead like their last fight would seem to indicate. P4P is supposed to be weight-neutral, and clearly that last fight was not. GSP used his size advantage to dominate the fight. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't really use it as a benchmark for comparing the 2 fighting at their ideal weights, which for GSP is 170 and for BJ is 155.

He took BJ down at will though. Diego won TUF @ 185 and has some good takedowns but didn't take BJ down one time last night, not one freaking time. GSP took BJ down over and over again and not just beat him but dominated him. Size or no size the way he manhandled BJ was astonishing. Never in a million years did I imagine GSP completely owning BJ that way. BJ has fought bigger guys his entire career and has never been the bigger guy.

Take the BJ fight coupled with the way GSP out wrestled Hughes, out muscled a bigger Alves. GSP has totally dominated lately.

Now, that being said, I wasn't a huge GSP fan at all for a very long time. However, the way his skill set has evolved and the way he's dominated his opponents, you have to respect his fight game if you a fan of MMA. As far as MMA goes I think it's hard to argue against him being the most well rounded of all.

[herrmag]

You can't blame GSP for that. Smaller guys beat bigger guys all the time, guess Brock will never be seen as a P4P fighter if he continues to win because of his size? BJ has fought LHW, I fail to see your point.

BJ's takedown defense and BJJ was supposed to be so superior that it would nulify GSP's size. BJ got pounded, plain and simple. He took the fight thinking he could win it, he didn't and GSP did. How can that not elevate GSP above BJ?

Because BJ left his weight class to fight in a heavier weight class. BJ is a natural lightweight. Fedor isn't a better P4P fighter because he can come into the UFC and beat up GSP in a heavyweight matchup, is he?

[ZoEd]

Because BJ left his weight class to fight in a heavier weight class. BJ is a natural lightweight. Fedor isn't a better P4P fighter because he can come into the UFC and beat up GSP in a heavyweight matchup, is he?

No Fedor is a better P4P fighter because he's destroyed every fighter they put in front of him and hasn't lost a fight since 2000. No fighter in the game has as many consecutive wins, that's why Fedor is #1 P4P. Also, it's not like fighting at 170 was a new thing for BJ, that's where he fought Hughes. I know 155 is BJ's ideal weight but lets not say that GSP's size is the ony reason he beat BJ. GSP is dominating 170, even against a big guy like Alvez.

I understand the definition of P4P, don't really need an explanation about it. I'm just sick of people saying that GSP is dominating because of his size when he's been out striking, wrestling and G&P'ing everyone as of late. Like I said earlier, he even out wrestled Matt Hughes, no easy feat.

[herrmag]

No Fedor is a better P4P fighter because he's destroyed every fighter they put in front of him and hasn't lost a fight since 2000. No fighter in the game has as many consecutive wins, that's why Fedor is #1 P4P. Also, it's not like fighting at 170 was a new thing for BJ, that's where he fought Hughes. I know 155 is BJ's ideal weight but lets not say that GSP's size is the ony reason he beat BJ. GSP is dominating 170, even against a big guy like Alvez.

I understand the definition of P4P, don't really need an explanation about it. I'm just sick of people saying that GSP is dominating because of his size when he's been out striking, wrestling and G&P'ing everyone as of late. Like I said earlier, he even out wrestled Matt Hughes, no easy feat.

I used Fedor as an example, not to debate whether or not he is the top P4P fighter in the world. He is for obvious reasons.

I still rank BJ ahead of GSP in P4P rankings. Obviously BJ will never beat GSP at 170. BJ's fought at HW, but that doesn't mean he's ideally suited to fight anywhere BUT 155. He's skilled enough to give GOOD fighters in higher weight classes fits, but not the elite. Physically, he just can't do it. Whomever suggested a catch weight bout between BJ and GSP had a good idea.

[ZoEd]

I used Fedor as an example, not to debate whether or not he is the top P4P fighter in the world. He is for obvious reasons.

I still rank BJ ahead of GSP in P4P rankings. Obviously BJ will never beat GSP at 170. BJ's fought at HW, but that doesn't mean he's ideally suited to fight anywhere BUT 155. He's skilled enough to give GOOD fighters in higher weight classes fits, but not the elite. Physically, he just can't do it. Whomever suggested a catch weight bout between BJ and GSP had a good idea.

Okay, so forget that BJ and GSP ever fought. GSP has still dominated his opponents in all facets of the MMA fight game, moreso than BJ has. I think you could also argue that the fighters GSP has faced most recently are better quality fighters than BJ.

Apples and oranges I guess, but to "pentalize" GSP for being a big 170 is just plain stupid. As far as a catch weight, how much freaking weight do you expect GSP to lose? The dude is an extremely lean/cut 170. 165? 160? I can't see GSP losing 10 more pounds.

Using your reasoning, if GSP goes up and fights a couple 185er's and loses as long as he goes back and dominates 170 he's still a great P4P fighter? I mean, as long as he fights them well it's okay if he loses. I think you're minimalizing GSP completely dominating BJ to support your opinion. Unfortunately, when you have two guys that have faced off and one completely dominated the other, the one who dominated should get the nod. You just can't ignore that, I don't care what the persons natural weight class is.

[Destino]

I used Fedor as an example, not to debate whether or not he is the top P4P fighter in the world. He is for obvious reasons.

I still rank BJ ahead of GSP in P4P rankings. Obviously BJ will never beat GSP at 170. BJ's fought at HW, but that doesn't mean he's ideally suited to fight anywhere BUT 155. He's skilled enough to give GOOD fighters in higher weight classes fits, but not the elite. Physically, he just can't do it. Whomever suggested a catch weight bout between BJ and GSP had a good idea.

BJ isn't losing because of weight. He's losing because that speed advantage he enjoys doesn't exist against GSP. He can't sit back defend the take down and throw hands. GSP can take him down at will and avoid BJ's hands.

GSP isn't taking him down with weight. He scores sweeps and double legs. double legs are all speed and technique, not strength.

[Chachie]

The P4P thing in the UFC (and to almost the same degree Strikeforce) is impossible to call right now because all the champions are truly dominating their divisions. BJ is about the only guy that was brave enough to try his hand against the champ of a heavier division. Spider fought heavier and won easily but didn't fight the champ.

Having said that, my opinion is that it comes down to wins and losses...

1. Fedor- Hasn't lost since forever and that was due to cut.

2. Silva- Hasn't lost in almost as long.

3. The Dragon- Hasn't lost. I thought Rua beat him and I think Spider would beat him but facts are facts at this point. An argument could be made for #1 because he's never tasted defeat. The only reason I have him at #3 is because he hasn't fought that many fights.

4. GSP- Lost semi-recently. On fire right now, but hey- he lost recently.

5. Baby Jay- Lost 2x to GSP, once to Machida. Lost recently. Impossible to rank him any higher. Hurts to say that because BJ is my guy.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Chachie