Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[McD5]

I watched the 2nd round, I'm just not sure what I saw. I either saw a fighter unable to hit someone laying underneath him with any of significance... which is pretty damn pathetic. Or more likely I saw a contender for a belt that realized he couldn't beat his opponent trying to stay on top and stay active "enough" to avoid being stood up.

In fact that's what I saw the whole fight. Forrest realized he couldn't beat Rampage and played for the decision. He stayed "active" and ran around throwing pillow punches before jumping back on his bike. Leg kicks were there to ensure rampage couldn't chase him by the looks of it.

Well, if you are going up against Rampage and you can be knocked out with one punch......that is a great game plan.

How else would you recommend that Forrest tries to win? What would give him a better chance?

A slugfest with Rampage? Hell no.

Best to utilize your reach advantage with jabs, keep him away from you, and outscore him......and when necessary, outperform him on the ground.

That is what he did......very smart.

Reminded me a little of Sugar Ray Leonard years ago....but a little more physical.

[Samuels]

I honestly thought the fight was a draw. Page won rd1 and 4 and Forest 2 and 5. I thought 3 was even. At best Forest shoulda won by 1 point if they gave him rd3. It is pretty pathetic that you can mount someone for over 3 minutes and not finish it. And no way in hell should have Forest won rd1 thats pathetic.

Page does'nt deserve a immediate rematch if Chuck or GSP did'nt. He has to win atleast 1 fight probably Wanderlei or Shogun.

Chuck will get the next shot with a win againest Rashad.

[Dance04]

anyone who says that this was a BS decision needs to have his head examined.

Destino, how can you say that forrest did nothing the whole fight? He dominated the leg kicks battle. he had a round where he seriously hurt his leg and had him in side mount for half the round. Rampage literally did nothing to forrest in the second.

You seem to be forgetting that forrest also had rampage in a dangerous triangle. He also had another sub attempt.

I gave the first round to rampage, but forrest could have won it. Until he got dropped, he was winning the first round. After he was on the ground, he got up and began wailing on rampage. Rampage didnt do much in the first.

Personally, I had the fight as a draw. How can something be a BS decision when SOOOO many people have it as a draw? that screams close decision.

Either way, it was an amazing fight and forrest did not deserve to get booed at the end. The man now has back to back wins over shogun and rampage. No one else in the world can make that claim. Its pretty remarkable that people still dont give him credit.

EDIT: Also, huge props to my second hometown hero, patrick cote! It was a close fight. almeida won the first and cote won the second. The third was very close, but all almeida did was score one takedown, which cote ended up reversing anyways. Im very proud to see him get his title shot.

Now can you guys imagine the possible NYE event? We could see 2 title fights. BJ vs GSP and Cote vs Silva. that would be amazing.

[herrmag]

yep, if Chuck beats Rashad he'll be streamlined to a tile shot. i'll be rooting heavy for Rashad just on the principle that being 2-2 in your last 4 fights should not be enough to get you a title shot in a deep division.

Then I guess you agree that Forrest didn't deserve a title shot either, right? He was 3-2 after his last 5, with 2 of the wins being against bottom-tier LHW's. At least Chuck has the excuse that, until yesterday, he was the ex-champ.

[Destino]

If Silva wins I'd do Rampage v Spider Silva winner gets a title fight. There is no point in giving Silva a long road to the title being that he's already holding a title. Put him up against the best and if he wins get him into a title fight. Champs should get fast tracked. If Chuck wins I'd give him the title shot immediately against Forrest.

[StillUnknown]

Then I guess you agree that Forrest didn't deserve a title shot either, right? He was 3-2 after his last 5, with 2 of the wins being against bottom-tier LHW's. At least Chuck has the excuse that, until yesterday, he was the ex-champ.

exactly. this is why is wish the UFC had an official and public ranking system. right now it seems all you need is two straight victories regardless of competition and you get a title shot.

Chuck will get a shot if he beats rampage

Mir is getting a shot after being destroyed by Vera & beating Hardonk & Lesnar in his last 3 fights. how Dana can justify this with a straight face is beyond me.

If Silva wins I'd do Rampage v Spider Silva winner gets a title fight. There is no point in giving Silva a long road to the title being that he's already holding a title. Put him up against the best and if he wins get him into a title fight. Champs should get fast tracked. If Chuck wins I'd give him the title shot immediately against Forrest.

i think this scenario is certainly possible. but i think Dana will go with Wandy vs. Page pretty soon. i could see Anderson facing someone like Thiago Silva if he gets past Irving, and should he beat Thiago Silva, he'll probably get a shot.

i would love to see Thiago vs. Anderson

[herrmag]

Chuck can not leapfrog Rampage when he is 0-2 against him. Chuck lost his title by KO. Rampage lost his by a close decision. On top of that Rampage has dominated Chuck twice. Rampage deserves the title shot more. I'd be fine letting them fight each other for the title shot.

:laugh: at all of us talking like Chuck is going to walk through Rashad. I don't know anyone that likes him.

It is crazy how stacked this division is on its own, then you have to think of the guys who have recently entered the division:

Anderson

Franklin

Vera

If there was ever a need for a UFC GP it is right now.

Why not? They're not going to make Forrest vs Rampage II the next match up for both of these gus. Now is the perfect time to do it. Rampage vs Wandy is the perfect next match up. Unfortunately, I have a feeling 'Page will lose that fight, and sink further down the depth charts. Lyoto will probably need to be one of the top 5 guys before he even enters the equation.

Now, this is all null and void if Chuck loses to Rashad. If that happens, it's time for Chuck to leave for the HW division, and Rashad should fight Lyoto for the #1 contender spot (just behind the winner of the Page/Wandy fight).

[#98QBKiller]

Let's talk about dominating rounds 2. He put rampage on his back... and did what? Watch the round again. The only thing he could land from a dominant position are little tiny forearm pushed instead of thrown.

Forrest injured Rampage's leg, got him in a guillotine, kneed him in the head, took him down and controlled him for the entire round.

That is dominating a round. Just because he didn't finish him while he was on top doesn't mean that Forrest didn't clearly win round 2 and wear Rampage down for the later rounds.

The the kind of crap you can't do and get awarded a belt. A normal fight fine but you can't lay on a champ for 5 minutes accomplish nothing at all and win a belt. That is my complaint. Other than a leg Forest didn't do anything... well other than catch punches and get wobbled and knocked off his feet... or sent running away to avoid a KO.

TITLE FIGHT. That is what makes it BS. This is a TITLE FIGHT. The champion does not lose the belt to a guy that couldn't even land a damn punch. Forest one by being more "active" but couldn't even land a punch on a guy fighting on one leg. Watch the punching exchanges.

Who cares if he won a close decision in a title fight? He still won. There's no rule that says you have to KO or sub the champion to win the belt from them.

This idea that the challenger must overwhelm the champion for the belt to change hands is flawed logic. By UFC rules, the winner of the fight walks away with the belt and Forrest outfought Rampage at the end of the night.

Skill-wise, there's not a lot of difference between the top contenders in most weight classes so you have to expect title fights to be close most of the time and that was the case last night. If a fighter barely edges out the champ, then he is still deserving of the title because he won the fight.

Also, you keep saying that Forrest couldn't land any punches but he landed plenty of jabs throughout the fight and kept Rampage from getting inside his reach and that's what you do when you're the longer lankier fighter.

Also, leg kicks count for points and Forrest landed them all fight not just the one that messed up Rampage's leg.

[Chachie]

Destino-

How about you give us your version of the UFC LHW pecking order. Good luck.

Dana's got his hands full giving all those big talents their proper shot at the title. The only thing I think he did wrong was give Rampage and Hendo their shots too early. They are the only two that didn't earn a darn thing coming in the door.

As it stands:

Griffin- Champion

Challengers in no particular order (and I'm sure I'm missing one or two...)

Jackson

Machida

Liddell

Rua

Wandy Silva

Evans

Jardine

Now Spider Silva?

Come on, Bro. You juggle them. They've all beaten each other, showing that styles make fights in MMA just like boxing. It's a tough call to hand out title shots with this group. I'm just glad we have a division where this conversation can be held and you're dissatisfied? Wow. I think Dana's doing a pretty good job keeping everyone busy with big match-ups and slipping in title bouts when the others are scheduled elsewhere. He could be wasting our time having the the big names get fat on punk opponents but he makes them at least fight each other.

[StillUnknown]

pretty good job on that list, you only left out Thiago Silva

[Chachie]

pretty good job on that list, you only left out Thiago Silva

And guys like Irvin, Bisping, and Hamill trying to bust in. CRAZY division.

(Edit) Hendo lurking. Sheesh!

[StillUnknown]

And guys like Irvin, Bisping, and Hamill trying to bust in. CRAZY division.

(Edit) Hendo lurking. Sheesh!

i'm thinking Hendo may be staying at 185 as he rumored to be fighting Pahlares @ UFC 88

Bisping is at 185, althought Franklin is moving up

the light heavyweight division is practically begging for a tourney

[Special K]

Rewatched the fight, sober today. Still pissed and sad...but it looks like Round 2 domination by Forrest was the kicker in this match.

However, I maintain my position that I HATE, DECISIONS in title fights. Whenever there is a decision, favor has to be given to the current champ.

[Destino]

Griffin- Champion

Challengers in no particular order (and I'm sure I'm missing one or two...)

Jackson

Machida

Liddell

Rua

Wandy Silva

Evans

Jardine

Now Spider Silva?

Personally I think traditional combat sport organization should be dropped and forgotten because it's horrible. I'd organize the weight class by divisions and have them fight it out and move up tournament style so there is no question of the champ or rank. This uncertainty make combat sports painful for new fans that don't know who is who and allows fighters to get title shots on name and fame.

Champ should be decided at the end of the season and given auto entry to the tournament the following year as the #1 seed.

From your list however I'd remove Jardine, the lose of Liddell/Evans, Rua (no recent wins and no fights at all in almost a year), and Machida (beating an Ortiz that isn't even dedicated to MMA at the moment, doesn't prove anything). I'd say the top contenders are obviously Jackson, Spider Silva if he handles Irvin (champs deserve a fast track), and Liddell if he beats Evans.

[Dance04]

However, I maintain my position that I HATE, DECISIONS in title fights. Whenever there is a decision, favor has to be given to the current champ.

that is rediculous. so if the champ loses all five rounds but it goes to a decision then he should be the winner? ludicrous.

As for forrest getting his title shot, at the time, who was number one? The whole division was in disarray as you had all these pride guys coming over. none of the significant contenders had any big streaks going. the only people who had streaks bigger then 2 were machida and evans. (im talking about contenders) Would either of them be more deserving of a title shot? rashad had a draw with tito and a split decision over bisping, a 185er. You can make a case for jardine as he knocked out forrest and beat chuck, but does anyone really wanna see jardine fight for the title? For christ sakes the man (griffin) chocked out shogun, who was widely ranked as number 1. The LHW division is so stacked that for any of the contenders to put 2 wins together is amazing.

In the LHW division as it stands, machida is the most deserving of a title shot. page, chuck, wandy and thiago silva are all next in line.

as for spider, he shouldnt be fighting at 205. He still needs to face okami and cote. after those two fights, bisping should have put 2 more wins together. He needs to stay in his division.

When will people realize that MMAth just does not work

[StillUnknown]

Personally I think traditional combat sport organization should be dropped and forgotten because it's horrible. I'd organize the weight class by divisions and have them fight it out and move up tournament style so there is no question of the champ or rank. This uncertainty make combat sports painful for new fans that don't know who is who and allows fighters to get title shots on name and fame.

Champ should be decided at the end of the season and given auto entry to the tournament the following year as the #1 seed.

From your list however I'd remove Jardine, the lose of Liddell/Evans, Rua (no recent wins and no fights at all in almost a year), and Machida (beating an Ortiz that isn't even dedicated to MMA at the moment, doesn't prove anything). I'd say the top contenders are obviously Jackson, Spider Silva if he handles Irvin (champs deserve a fast track), and Liddell if he beats Evans.

that tournament style wouldn't work from a business standpoint. championship matches = bigger buyrates. no way the UFC would risk losing that type of revenue

i wouldn't mind seeing a Dream style tourney between the lhw contender to see who should be getting the next couple of shots

Machida is definitely in the championship mix, he stopped Sokodjou, Franklin, beat BJ (yeah he was way out of his weight, but you still have to fight).

more importantly outside of a late triangle by Tito, i can't remember Machida ever being in danger of losing a fight.

[herrmag]

that is rediculous. so if the champ loses all five rounds but it goes to a decision then he should be the winner? ludicrous.

As for forrest getting his title shot, at the time, who was number one? The whole division was in disarray as you had all these pride guys coming over. none of the significant contenders had any big streaks going. the only people who had streaks bigger then 2 were machida and evans. (im talking about contenders) Would either of them be more deserving of a title shot? rashad had a draw with tito and a split decision over bisping, a 185er. You can make a case for jardine as he knocked out forrest and beat chuck, but does anyone really wanna see jardine fight for the title? For christ sakes the man (griffin) chocked out shogun, who was widely ranked as number 1. The LHW division is so stacked that for any of the contenders to put 2 wins together is amazing.

That's not what Keestman said. She is basically saying you have to BEAT the champion. If there is no decisive winner, preference should be given to the reigning champion. And I agree with her 100%.

As for Forrest, he was not, nor was he EVER the #1 contender. He beat Shogun, but nobody is even sure if Shogun will ever be the fighter that he once was in Pride. Hell, Rashad Evans was higher up on the depth chart than Forrest, and I put him behind Mach, and possibly Chuck. And after Wandy's destruction of Jardine, I'd put him above Forrest as well.

[Destino]

that tournament style wouldn't work from a business standpoint. championship matches = bigger buyrates. no way the UFC would risk losing that type of revenue

I don't think that's true. Imagine win or go home PPV events I think those would draw pretty well being you could argue that what is on the line is greater than you average title fight or at least on par. The problem would be how many fights could you fit into a year per fighter. They'd be fighting 6 times or more a year. That's three times more than they do now usually.

[Chachie]

Personally I think traditional combat sport organization should be dropped and forgotten because it's horrible. I'd organize the weight class by divisions and have them fight it out and move up tournament style so there is no question of the champ or rank. This uncertainty make combat sports painful for new fans that don't know who is who and allows fighters to get title shots on name and fame.

Champ should be decided at the end of the season and given auto entry to the tournament the following year as the #1 seed.

From your list however I'd remove Jardine, the lose of Liddell/Evans, Rua (no recent wins and no fights at all in almost a year), and Machida (beating an Ortiz that isn't even dedicated to MMA at the moment, doesn't prove anything). I'd say the top contenders are obviously Jackson, Spider Silva if he handles Irvin (champs deserve a fast track), and Liddell if he beats Evans.

Not bad logic but I didn't ask you to invent your own league.

[Jaded-Dragon]

I'm glad that a main event lived up to the hype (for me anyway). I wanted Forest to win, I'm glad he did, and I believe that he deserved the decision. But, I will say that I thought it was a much closer fight than what the score cards said.

There's so many good match ups possible in the 205 at this point, it's very exciting to think about it.

Destino, you sound like a scorned Pride fan buddy.

[Destino]

Destino, you sound like a scorned Pride fan buddy.

I didn't even like Pride and have thought their fighters were over rated when they came to to the UFC and had to get used to the cage. I just hate titles going to guys that played for points and mostly just tried to nuetralize the champ instead of damaging him at all. Rampages face was a fresh as it was when he showed up for the fight despite the fact that Forrest spent 3 minutes on top pretending like he was fighting.

[Chachie]

I just hate titles going to guys that played for points and mostly just tried to nuetralize the champ instead of damaging him at all. Rampages face was a fresh as it was when he showed up for the fight despite the fact that Forrest spent 3 minutes on top pretending like he was fighting.

Destruction of a knee, a fierce GnP, and at least 2 sub attempts. He was fighting a supreme veteran. Not bad in my book.

However, your point is well-taken. You need to see more when a title changes hands. That's fair.

[Special K]

that is rediculous. so if the champ loses all five rounds but it goes to a decision then he should be the winner? ludicrous.

Um, actually that's not at all what I was saying....luckily Hermag summed it up quite well for me.

P.S. Rampage didn't lose all 5 rounds :doh1:

[Dance04]

As for Forrest, he was not, nor was he EVER the #1 contender. He beat Shogun, but nobody is even sure if Shogun will ever be the fighter that he once was in Pride. Hell, Rashad Evans was higher up on the depth chart than Forrest, and I put him behind Mach, and possibly Chuck. And after Wandy's destruction of Jardine, I'd put him above Forrest as well.

your using what has happened since he was announced number one contender to make your point. that just doesnt make sense. At the time, there was no CLEAR number one contender. Forrest just subbed the supposed best fighter in the world. Someone needed to fight for the title, so they gave it to forrest. It's not like he was completely undeserving.

[Dance04]

Um, actually that's not at all what I was saying....luckily Hermag summed it up quite well for me.

P.S. Rampage didn't lose all 5 rounds :doh1:

Let's revisit what you said

However, I maintain my position that I HATE, DECISIONS in title fights. Whenever there is a decision, favor has to be given to the current champ.

nowhere do you say anything about close decision fights or split decisions. you are saying that if there is a decision, then favor should go to the current champ.

therefore, um, actually, that is exactly what you said. :doh1:

P.S. never did I say that rampage lost all 5 rounds. :doh::doh::doh: