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SUNSTONE

Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

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Hold up here guys-

I'm getting the impression that one or more of you are slamming Frank Mir for overcoming a pummeling by a 900 pound gorilla and winning a cage match. Is that what's going on?

During the time leading up to this fight, many people expected Lesnar to do exactly what he did, which was overwhelm Mir with his size and strength. Many people also expected Mir to do exactly what he did, which was weather the storm and get a tricky sub. It's certainly not Mir's fault that Mazzagatti stood them up when he saw punches to the back of the head and it certainly didn't make much difference because Lesnar took Mir right back down for the G&P. If any of you blame Mir for trying to move his head out of the way of those punches, I'd love to see you lay there and take them "like a brave man." There's such a thing as "dirty boxing" but nobody complains about that. Why complain about "dirty MMAing?"

Mir did weather the storm and he did get the tricky sub. Frank's experience beat Lesnars' power. Other than Mazzagatti's "flub," which is NOT necessarily an error because he did warn Lesnar once, what's the issue?

I don't blame Mir for anything he did what he was supposed to do. I do blame Mazzagatti for making a bad decision and finding a way to eff up something on yet another bout....he officially sucks at life.

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Hold up here guys-

I'm getting the impression that one or more of you are slamming Frank Mir for overcoming a pummeling by a 900 pound gorilla and winning a cage match. Is that what's going on?

During the time leading up to this fight, many people expected Lesnar to do exactly what he did, which was overwhelm Mir with his size and strength. Many people also expected Mir to do exactly what he did, which was weather the storm and get a tricky sub. It's certainly not Mir's fault that Mazzagatti stood them up when he saw punches to the back of the head and it certainly didn't make much difference because Lesnar took Mir right back down for the G&P. If any of you blame Mir for trying to move his head out of the way of those punches, I'd love to see you lay there and take them "like a brave man." There's such a thing as "dirty boxing" but nobody complains about that. Why complain about "dirty MMAing?"

Mir did weather the storm and he did get the tricky sub. Frank's experience beat Lesnars' power. Other than Mazzagatti's "flub," which is NOT necessarily an error because he did warn Lesnar once, what's the issue?

When have I argued against your point? I'm not saying Mir did anything wrong or wussy. If anything, yes, Mazaggati messed up. All I'm saying is that a rookie came excruciatingly close to wiping the floor with a former champion's face. I like Frank Mir, he's my favorite HW in the UFC, but I can realize the fact that he earned his title shot against a jiu jitsu novice by kneebarring him after getting bombed like London in '41. It's kind of unsettling, in more than one way. The fact that I want Mir to gradually rediscover his groove, instead of taking on the brunt of talent from here on out. The fact that if Lesnar won, you have to wonder if he would be teaching these kids on TUF.

Herring lost to Nog

Herring beat Kongo = Kongo is out of the title picture

Werdum/Vera are fighting

If Mir were to have lost to Lesnar, who would Nog fight? The only thing I can think of is for Nog to sit on his ass, while Mir and Kongo would have fought. And Herring would have to take on Lesnar.

Right now, I'd have it like this:

Werdum/Vera

Herring/Mir

Lesnar/Kongo

Gonzaga/Hardonk

Dana needed to re-sign Arlovski, and put him up against Nog. That would have been a good championship fight, for the time being. It's a shame how little they have to work with.

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When have I argued against your point? I'm not saying Mir did anything wrong or wussy. If anything, yes, Mazaggati messed up. All I'm saying is that a rookie came excruciatingly close to wiping the floor with a former champion's face. I like Frank Mir, he's my favorite HW in the UFC, but I can see the fact that he earned his title shot against a jiu jitsu novice by kneebarring him after getting bombed like London in '41. It's kind of unsettling, in more than one way. The fact that I want Mir to gradually rediscover his groove, instead of taking on the brunt of talent from here on out. The fact that if Lesnar won, you have to wonder if he would be teaching these kids on TUF.

Herring lost to Nog

Herring beat Kongo = Kongo is out of the title picture

Werdum/Vera are fighting

If Mir were to have lost to Lesnar, who would Nog fight? The only thing I can think of is for Nog to sit on his ass while Mir and Kongo fight, while Herring takes on Lesnar.

Right now, I'd have it like this:

Werdum/Vera

Herring/Mir

Lesnar/Kongo

Gonzaga/Hardonk

Dana needed to re-sign Arlovski, and put him up against Nog. That would have been a good championship fight, for the time being. It's a shame how little they have to work with.

I see the point you're making now. As I read the posts, I was getting the wrong impression.

I can only offer that Mir may be getting some special treatment because of his impressive showing as a UFC champ before a tragedy struck. It doesn't seem so devious to me that Dana would get him into the title shot when some others have earned it due to that circumstance. He did get punked by Vera in his return but I think everyone knows he was not the same Frank Mir. It has taken him time to come back and taking on Vera and a HUGE Lesnar was very brave of him. He's also a good ambassador for the sport.

I'm not saying he deserves a title shot for his post-accident record, I'm saying I can see where Dana is making an exception for an ex-champ who has had tragedy, come back from the rubble heap and performed bravely and professionally. Just my humble opinion.

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"because of his impressive showing as a UFC champ"

What impressive showing? He never defended his title. But...

"He's also a good ambassador for the sport. I'm not saying he deserves a title shot for his post-accident record, I'm saying I can see where Dana is making an exception for an ex-champ who has had tragedy, come back from the rubble heap and performed bravely and professionally"

I completely agree with that opinion and think that with Arlovski leaving it's the best choice the UFC could have made.

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What impressive showing? He never defended his title. But...

True. I should have said his impressive rise to the top and having it snatched away by misfortune.

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It really does suck that he had that accident. The entire HW division would be completely different now if that didn't happen. Would Couture have come out of retirement to fight Mir? Who would have won? Would they have given Cro Cop an automatic title fight if it was Mir instead of Randy? and on and on. What a shame.

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Check out this Nick Diaz sig I found:

Diaz.gif

If I didn't hate the Diaz douchebags so much, I'd say it was pretty sweet. ;)

After re-watching the Penn/Stevenson fight again last night, I'm not sold that BJ will be able to hang with Sherk's cardio. If it makes it to the 3rd round, I hate to say it, but I'm betting on the upset; Sherk by lay-n-pray. BJ was literally LEANING on the ref when he got his hand held at the end of the fight. Of course, this all depends on what Sherk's cardio and muscle mass will be like post 'roids.

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I watched that too and thought the exact same thing. When BJ's trainers came running into the cage to congratulate him he collapsed into one guys arms, then fell on the canvas. That fight didn't even go 2 full rounds, was stopped twice to clean the cut on Stevenson's head, and wasn't that fast paced. I really really hope BJ has finally found a way to up his cardio. It's always been his Achilles heel.

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If I didn't hate the Diaz douchebags so much, I'd say it was pretty sweet. ;)

:laugh: Nick's not that bad but Nate is a DOUCHE

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Dana on Tito at mmamania.com

“Tito is a f—ing idiot. He’s one of the dumbest human beings I’ve ever met. Everything that comes out of his mouth makes no sense…. I put up with his s— when he was a good fighter. He’s not anymore…. He’s not in anybody’s Top 10. I have no interest whatsoever in being in the Tito Ortiz business…. I’ve never wanted to see anyone get their ass kicked worse than I want to see Tito get his kicked next Saturday night.”

Let us know how you really feel, Dana :laugh:

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Dana on Tito at mmamania.com

“Tito is a f—ing idiot. He’s one of the dumbest human beings I’ve ever met. Everything that comes out of his mouth makes no sense…. I put up with his s— when he was a good fighter. He’s not anymore…. He’s not in anybody’s Top 10. I have no interest whatsoever in being in the Tito Ortiz business…. I’ve never wanted to see anyone get their ass kicked worse than I want to see Tito get his kicked next Saturday night.”

Let us know how you really feel, Dana :laugh:

i definitely hope Machida wins that fight, but if Tito wins i want to see Dana's reaction to it. i got a feeling it would be classic :laugh:

almost a reminder of how sad he sounded doing commentary of the first Rampage/Liddell fight in Pride:laugh:

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I have a good example we can all use for this "desperation" debate...Remember Nate Diaz's last victory? (The last UFC Fight Night on Spike)

He wasn't getting GnP'd as bad as Mir, but from what I recall, he was sure losing the striking game. He was also slammed/taken down quite decisively a few times...I definitely had him losing on my scorecard. But there was just that one time where he got slammed, but locked up the triangle on the way down and won the fight. If it weren't for the triangle and things continued the way there were going, Nate would have either been TKO'd or lost a unanimous decision...Would you call his triangle a "desperation technique"?

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I have a good example we can all use for this "desperation" debate...Remember Nate Diaz's last victory? (The last UFC Fight Night on Spike)

He wasn't getting GnP'd as bad as Mir, but from what I recall, he was sure losing the striking game. He was also slammed/taken down quite decisively a few times...I definitely had him losing on my scorecard. But there was just that one time where he got slammed, but locked up the triangle on the way down and won the fight. If it weren't for the triangle and things continued the way there were going, Nate would have either been TKO'd or lost a unanimous decision...Would you call his triangle a "desperation technique"?

i tend to equate desparation moreso to when a particular move is used. i don't even consider "desparation" to be a bad thing necessarily. in the Diaz example, it was a moment of desparation that he seized upon to win the fight in probably the only way he could given the circumstances of that fight.

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t_728.jpg

Product Description

Mixed Martial Arts outlines the revolutionary system of fighting used by world-renowned fighter BJ Penn, Coach of Spike TV's 'Ultimate Fighter 5'.

Penn, one of the most technical and decorated fighters in the world today, illustrates fighting techniques that teach you how to mix strikes with takedowns, ground and pound an opponent into submission, fight against the cage and formulate strategies based upon your personal attributes and strengths.

About the Author

BJ Penn, MMA Welterweight and Lightweight World Champion, is the only non-Brazilian to win the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu World Championships and is a fighter in the UFC.

Erich Krauss is a professional Muay Thai kickboxer who has trained and competed in Thailand. He is the author of fifteen books.

Glen Cordoza is a professional mixed martial arts fighter and co-author of Muay Thai Unleashed: Technique and Strategy of Thailand’s Warrior Elite.

i recently got a copy of this book, although i haven't had the time to really start reading it yet. Has anyone else read this, and if so, what do you think of it?

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i recently got a copy of this book, although i haven't had the time to really start reading it yet. Has anyone else read this, and if so, what do you think of it?

So far I've learned how not to have good cardio :D

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I have a good example we can all use for this "desperation" debate...Remember Nate Diaz's last victory? (The last UFC Fight Night on Spike)

He wasn't getting GnP'd as bad as Mir, but from what I recall, he was sure losing the striking game. He was also slammed/taken down quite decisively a few times...I definitely had him losing on my scorecard. But there was just that one time where he got slammed, but locked up the triangle on the way down and won the fight. If it weren't for the triangle and things continued the way there were going, Nate would have either been TKO'd or lost a unanimous decision...Would you call his triangle a "desperation technique"?

Both Diaz brothers (but especially Nate) are notoriously slow starters. In fact, Nate was getting beat up pretty good in most of his TUF fights before winning those. The pattern has continued in his UFC career.

Nick has WAY better stand-up/boxing than Nate does. I'd say they are even in grappling (although Nick's more versatile) but Nate loves the triangle choke. He relies too heavily on it and fighters are going to figure that out about him soon.

I love the Diaz Bros and always root for both of them, but they are both a bit lackadaisical in the octagon until they are pushed to the limit. Nick's opponents in his early UFC bouts were on a much higher level than Nate's have been and he had great showings against guys like Sanchez, Sherk, and Parisyan despite losing close decisions. Nate has gotten the early career wins but has not looked as good against less talented opposition.

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So far I've learned how not to have good cardio :D

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

that should be a warning on the first page of the book

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So far I've learned how not to have good cardio :D

BJ's lack of cardio is widely exaggerated. He gassed once against GSP.

The Hughes fight he seperated a rib. There is a doctors report on it. We even know exactly when it happened. When he took Hughes' back.

Penn has gone 3 full rounds with Renzo Gracie and Lyoto Machida. He didn't gas against either of those top notch fighters.

He also finished Gomi in the third though that was a long time ago.

Lets see what happens against Sherk before blasting Penn's cardio. I know it is the popular thing to do, but it does not have any merit. You can talk about leaning on the ref all you want AFTER he finished Stevenson. There is no way to know for sure if he would have gassed. It is pointless to talk about, He outclassed Stevenson, who is a great fighter in his own right.

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I think Penn did have a cardio issue and he was overweight. After his fight against Stevenson though he looked to be back in Penn form and I dont think he will gas one bit against Sherk. I think Sherk is also messing up by trying to talk trash to BJ. He is just going to get him more focused and end up choked out..

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I think Penn did have a cardio issue and he was overweight. After his fight against Stevenson though he looked to be back in Penn form and I dont think he will gas one bit against Sherk. I think Sherk is also messing up by trying to talk trash to BJ. He is just going to get him more focused and end up choked out..

I'm half tempted to sig bet on Sherk given how people seem to think he's going to get crushed easily....still too close for me to bet on IMO

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I'm half tempted to sig bet on Sherk given how people seem to think he's going to get crushed easily....still too close for me to bet on IMO

If you give me Penn I would take that bet. Id even call it 2nd round.

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If you give me Penn I would take that bet. Id even call it 2nd round.

That's what I meant, I take Sherk the other person takes Penn....hmmm...and you would even specify the round? If Penn subs/KOs Sherk in any other round you lose?

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