Dr. Z - Art Monk comments (nobody will like this)

[grhqofb5]

Dear Dr. Z,

It's nice to here from you again. Your analysis of Art Monk is right on point. Guys like you and I think on a different level, so don't worry about all those coaches and former players who believe that Monk was one of the greatest of his era. Who are they to tell us what a "Hall of Famer" is? It's our world baby, and the Hall should follow our rules. Its time we fixed this whole mess. While we're at it, I would encourage you to possibly help me remove the following players from the hall.

1.) Marcus Allen:

Are you kidding me? He played 16 years, averaging somewhere around 750 yards a season. You can't go to the hall of fame with 16 750 yard seasons, can you? Forget about the 1 superbowl and the NFL MVP award, this guy was a joke. Bo Jackson was the one the raiders would always go to break the big one anyways, right? Of course, if he'd held some prestigious single season record or career record, I'd let him stay. But rules are rules, so get out your craftsman mini screwdriver set and we'll go to the hall and rip his plaque right out of there. The bottom line is, longevity and super bowls mean nothing without career records and single season records.

2.) OJ Simpson

Obviously we need to get his plaque while we're in there too. I mean honestly, isn't that one season where he broke that major offensive record the only reason he got in? Sure he had a few other good years, but its not like he ever held the career rushing mark, and his single season record has been surpassed. And no Super Bowls? Now, if he had held the career rushing record or had some major team success, that would be a different story. The bottom line is that single season records in major offensive categories mean nothing without career records and superbowls.

3.) Charlie Joiner

All I can say is wow. Talk about a guy being consistently unworthy. I mean, his average seasonal output was only 675 yards per season. And its not like he ever did anything with his career. Forget the career receptions record, which he held for a few years. Everyone knows that it was actually John Jefferson who was the real deep threat on that team. Consistency? Meh. If he had some sort of team success, like 2 or 3 super bowls, or a single season record, then of course he should be allowed to stay. The bottom line is, career records in major offensive categories mean nothing without single season records and super bowls.

I could go on like this, Dr., but it doesn't really matter. You and I both know what it takes to get into the Hall. If there was only a player out there who held some major single season record, major career record, had a long and consistent career, and had won more than 2 super bowls... then we'd have ourselves a real hall of famer.

With knowlege of your superior intellectual aptitude to procure well learned and statistically significant collatorally functional football maxims, I take my leave.

P.S. All the above listed players belong in the hall, and so does Art Monk.

[SkinsFTW]

I can't speak for Paul "Dr Z" Zimmerman, but I think Marvin Harrison is putting up some great numbers and will definitely be a HOF candidate if he keeps it going at the current rate. Of course, this is all the more reason that Art Monk should be in the HOF.

And Harrison has gone to 0 Super Bowls and has had Peyton Manning throwing him the ball for the past 7-8 years. I'm pretty sure Monk would have also benefitted from having Joe Montana or Dan Marino throwing him the ball his entire career.

[cowboyuptx]

Can anybody looking at the stats below tell me how the heck he can even argue that? Avg ypc is above a 8 for all the years

		|          Rushing         |        Receiving        |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1980 was |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    58    797  13.7    3 |
| 1981 was |  16 |     1     -5   -5.0    0 |    56    894  16.0    6 |
| 1982 was |   9 |     7     21    3.0    0 |    35    447  12.8    1 |
| 1983 was |  12 |     3    -19   -6.3    0 |    47    746  15.9    5 |
| 1984 was |  16 |     2     18    9.0    0 |   106   1372  12.9    7 |
| 1985 was |  15 |     7     51    7.3    0 |    91   1226  13.5    2 |
| 1986 was |  16 |     4     27    6.8    0 |    73   1068  14.6    4 |
| 1987 was |   9 |     6     63   10.5    0 |    38    483  12.7    6 |
| 1988 was |  16 |     7     46    6.6    0 |    72    946  13.1    5 |
| 1989 was |  16 |     3      8    2.7    0 |    86   1186  13.8    8 |
| 1990 was |  16 |     7     59    8.4    0 |    68    770  11.3    5 |
| 1991 was |  16 |     9     19    2.1    0 |    71   1049  14.8    8 |
| 1992 was |  16 |     6     45    7.5    0 |    46    644  14.0    3 |
| 1993 was |  16 |     1     -1   -1.0    0 |    41    398   9.7    2 |
| 1994 nyj |  16 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    46    581  12.6    3 |
| 1995 phi |   3 |     0      0    0.0    0 |     6    114  19.0    0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
|  TOTAL   | 224 |    63    332    5.3    0 |   940  12721  13.5   68 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

Whats his email address? I'd like to send him this and see what he says about that.

I bet he'd say...............

These look like Terry Glenn's career numbers!

Terry Glenn to the HOF!!:laugh:

[Riggo#44]

I bet he'd say...............

These look like Terry Glenn's career numbers!

Terry Glenn to the HOF!!:laugh:

I am going to take this as a joke...I sincerely hope you're not that much of a homer.

Glenn would be injured more than he is now if he played when Monk was in his prime

[ouvan59]

I bet he'd say...............

These look like Terry Glenn's career numbers!

Terry Glenn to the HOF!!:laugh:

:doh: :handicap:

[Bryan81]

And you guys wonder why I quite my subscription to Sports Illustrated.

[hamptonskinsfan]

let me ask everyone this question...... is not the basis of the West Coast Offense based upon little dink and dunk passes for 4 to 5 yds???? i submit this little tidbit of info from THE UNOFFICIAL WEBSITE OF THE

WEST COAST OFFENSE

www.westcoastoffense.com

WEST COAST OFFENSE OVERVIEW

SHORT PASS PLAYS Replace the Running Game to CONTROL the Ball.

Bill Walsh originated with the San Francisco 49ers.

Long process for QB to pick-up all the reads and adjustments.

Release all five receivers into the pattern.

QB has progression read up to five receivers.

Take what the defensive gives you.

Make the defense adjust to you.

if that be the case then an 8 yd hook route is better than anyone who played or coached in the WCO (i.e. Jerry Rice, Bill Walsh, Joe Montana, Steve Young, John Elway, Marv Levy, Jim Kelly) all of whom are in the HOF. That being said according to Dr. Z's logic NONE of them Belong in the HOF. Period.

HTTR.

[pjfootballer]

I'd like to spill a gallon of Hot Coffee on Peter Queen and then dump a bottle of wine over Dr. Zzzz's head (an expensive rare bottle) and then bust the bottle over Pastabelly's head.

[hkHog]

I'd RATHER DIE than let this man be my DOCTOR

If he was your dosctor you would die anyway!

[Mania]

Monk wasn't as good a reciever as Irvin was. Sure Monk had more receptions, and yrds, but also played longer. Irvin was a top 3 rec, in his day, Monk wasn't. There is a huge difference between the two.

That isn't to say Monk dosen't deserve in, but you are only lashing out at Irvin because he is a Cowboy. The fact of the matter is that Irvin should be in already, should have gone in his first year, was denied, missed out last year and had better get in this year. Ole, Zimmy already said he wasn't voting for Irvin or Monk this year, but is voting for an average rb like Thurman Thomas. That is what should piss you off. Not that a wr like Irvin who was a better rec, better team leader, better football player period getting in the Hall of Fame.

Whatever you said was thrown out the window when you said Mr. Michael "Sniff Sniff" Irvin was a better team leader than Monk. What was he a leader of, the Cocaine Cowboys. Micheal Irvin was not a better receiver than Art Monk did. Monk did this on a running football team that had 3 perrennial 1000 yard receivers in a time when teams didn't pass as much. Irvin did this during a time where passing opened up running lanes on the Cowboys team. The 90's was much more passer friendly era than the 80's. You need to own up to that fact!

[Taylor 36]

Oh, the disgust!!!:doh:

There is no doubt in ANY un biased, football knowledgable persons mind that Monk deserves to be in the Hall. It is a shame that these writers have been allowed to perpetuate their agendas and have their bias rein supreme this long.

BTW, did our very unknowledgabel Cowgirls fan flee, or was mister "moron" banned???

[gutlead74]

Whatever you said was thrown out the window when you said Mr. Michael "Sniff Sniff" Irvin was a better team leader than Monk. What was he a leader of, the Cocaine Cowboys. Micheal Irvin was not a better receiver than Art Monk did. Monk did this on a running football team that had 3 perrennial 1000 yard receivers in a time when teams didn't pass as much. Irvin did this during a time where passing opened up running lanes on the Cowboys team. The 90's was much more passer friendly era than the 80's. You need to own up to that fact!

Ivin was a better team leader, he often organized team activities. why every time he got arrested he usually had a team mate with him. :laugh:

we need a white nosed smiley with a cowboys jersey on.....

the cowboys are just a money laundring front for jerry jones....thats how he has been drafting, on the basis of how much product can said player move in the off season:laugh: :dallasuck

[JPM285181]

You are an idiot. Please refrain from responding to my posts. I prefer not to read moron... Thanks for your support.

Oh please you are going to tell me that Irvin wasn't one of the best WR of his era. If you are than you are just as big of an idiot as Dr. Z says. The bottom line is that Irvin was a top 3 wr in his era, and a superbowl winner, compiling almost as many yrds as Monk in 3 fewer years. That bothers you. I understand.

You come from a place that doesn't think Irvin belongs in the Hall of Fame, because you are a retarded redskin fan. I come from a place that thinks Monk belongs in the Hall because he was a great football player, not the best, but a better fooball player than Guys like Namath, Swann, and Stallworth all members of the Hall of Fame. I understand, you can't see beyond team alligence.

Please dont forget to factor in Monk teammates stats as well, you know Sanders, Clark etc... Incidently Irvin does belong in the hall but not BEFORE Monk.

[JPM285181]

How so, maybe it was a good response for the homer morons of the world. Leading a league in Tds doesn't mean you were one of the top wr of your day nor does, leading the league in yrds. Take into account the fact that Irvin was on a run orientated team and produced almost as much as your beloved Art Monk in 3 fewer years, and over in 65 fewer games. Yet you fools claim Monk deserves in more. :doh:

Monk wasnt on a run oriented team??? You need to study your history.

[bulldog]

for those that are caught up on stats, explain how Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Charlie Joiner, and a host of other players got into the Hall of Fame with lesser numbers.

and if we try and alibi Swann by saying he was on a dominant team and made big catches in big games, then explain to me how career hoppers like Joiner and James Lofton are in?

these players didn't come within sniffing distance of a title. the Bills were blown out of the Super Bowls Lofton played in for them. Joiner never advanced in San Diego or Cincinnati.

Art Monk WILL be in the Hall of Fame as the veteran's committee is almost certain to vote him in when he has passed the period of eligibility.

The fact that it has to come down to this is a slap in the face for a player that did nothing but the right thing on the field and off of it.

[spm]

for those that are caught up on stats, explain how Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Charlie Joiner, and a host of other players got into the Hall of Fame with lesser numbers.

and if we try and alibi Swann by saying he was on a dominant team and made big catches in big games, then explain to me how career hoppers like Joiner and James Lofton are in?

I don't think Dr Z would dispute that Swann was an horrendous HOF pick--the offensive players on the 70's Steelers are tremendously overrated. Only Harris and Webster were really great players. I'd rather they went in along with all 11 defensive players than allow Swann, Stallworth and Bradshaw to make a joke of the HOF.

Lofton deserves to be in. He was one of the two best WRs of his era--along with Monk. Joiner I don't know much about, but I bet Gibbs and Saunders could give a good opinion of who the better WR was between Monk and Joiner.

The amazing thing about Monk not being in the HOF is that he has ALL of the normal benchmarks. He has tremendous career stats, important NFL records, 3 SB championships, AND his playoff stats were generally equal or better than his regular season stats (15.4 ypc). I don't know how voters can continue to deny Monk and allow guys like Swann and Aikman (also not a great player) in.

[TD Riggo]

WTF is he a doctor of?

Proctological exams. He's an expert when it comes to the ass.

[skinz1972]

I can't speak for Paul "Dr Z" Zimmerman, but I think Marvin Harrison is putting up some great numbers and will definitely be a HOF candidate if he keeps it going at the current rate. Of course, this is all the more reason that Art Monk should be in the HOF.

marvin harrison is in a passing era,monk was on a run 1st team.

[DrunkenMaster]

It puts the Dr. Z in the pit. It puts the lotion in its mouth so it will finally shut up.

[DjTj]

I don't think Dr Z would dispute that Swann was an horrendous HOF pick--the offensive players on the 70's Steelers are tremendously overrated. Only Harris and Webster were really great players. I'd rather they went in along with all 11 defensive players than allow Swann, Stallworth and Bradshaw to make a joke of the HOF.

Actually, Dr. Z was one of Swann's biggest supporters. I'm pretty sure that without Dr. Z on the committee, Swann never would have gotten in. Even then it took him 15 years of eligibility before he finally made the final cut.

http://artmonk.wordpress.com/hall-of-fame-voters/paul-zimmerman/

He ranked the top 6 eligible receivers in 2000

Six Receivers Dr. Z Thinks Belong in the Hall

1. Lynn Swann (1974-82) His numbers aren’t good enough is the argument. My pitch has been quality over quantity. He saved his best for when the stakes were highest.

2. James Lofton (1978-93) He was so dynamic downfield that people forget he could operate as a possession receiver as well.

3. Otis Taylor (1965-75) Classic combination of size (6′3″, 215 pounds) and speed that everybody’s looking for now.

4. Mac Speedie (1946-52) Finest receiver for the Cleveland Browns teams when they terrorized the old All-America Conference.

5. Harold Carmichael (1971-84) Gigantic (6′8″) target who was amazingly effective downfield.

6. Art Powell (1959-68) Forgotten now, but the most feared receiver in the early days of the AFL.

and he addressed Monk vs. Swann in 2001.

Joe B. of Eau Claire, Wis., feels that Art Monk’s durability, while he was running up his tremendous numbers, makes him more valuable than my man, Lynn Swann. Let’s put it this way: If you were putting together a team, which one would you want, a guy who’d get you first downs or a guy who’d get you touchdowns?

For some reason he just holds a vendetta against Art Monk, and he has held that opinion since 1984. Unlike Peter King or Len Pasquarelli, who praised Monk during his career but only now are voting against him, Dr. Z has always doubted Art Monk. There's no use in wasting time trying to argue with him.

[JoeSkins]

For some reason he just holds a vendetta against Art Monk, and he has held that opinion since 1984.

He bet on the Redskins after having an argument with a friend that Monk would be more of a factor than Allen? :whoknows:

[tr1]

sableholic's stats blow the good doctor away.

The doctor is one of many NY sportswriters who suffered through Gibbs I, where the lowly Giants only won one SB. Gibbs' teams matched the SF teams during the same era, yet the Redskins were never, ever media darlings....especially NY media.

[shalter20]

***EDIT: Racist foul language does not belong here.... buh bye.***

[spm]

Actually, Dr. Z was one of Swann's biggest supporters. I'm pretty sure that without Dr. Z on the committee, Swann never would have gotten in. Even then it took him 15 years of eligibility before he finally made the final cut.

My mistake. I must have Dr. Z confused with someone else on the issue of Swann. Well, he's out of his mind if he thinks anyone would take Lynn Swann over Art Monk as a player. You might as well ask a Cowboys fan if they'd rather have Alvin Harper or Michael Irvin.

[pjfootballer]

better team leader, better football player period getting in the Hall of Fame.

Better team leader? I guess getting arrested several times make you a better team leader? Better Football Player? No I will say that Irvin, despite his off the field crap, does deserve to get in the HOF, But Monk defined what a football player and a REAL man is.