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Dr. Z - Art Monk comments (nobody will like this)


sableholic

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"after the break we will find out what Mike Irvin would trade in all 3 of his superbowl rings for" Chris Berman "COCAINE!!!!!!" the entire sports nation:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Irvin smoked his arguement for the hall. maybe you should take your blue colored glasses off

You are an idiot. Please refrain from responding to my posts. I prefer not to read moron... Thanks for your support.

Is that why Irvin was only in the top 3 in receptions twice in his career, top 3 in receiving yards three times in his career and never in the top 3 in receiving TDs in his career? Just because he stood up and gyrated making sure you noticed every single thing he did doesn't make him a top 3 receiver.
Oh please you are going to tell me that Irvin wasn't one of the best WR of his era. If you are than you are just as big of an idiot as Dr. Z says. The bottom line is that Irvin was a top 3 wr in his era, and a superbowl winner, compiling almost as many yrds as Monk in 3 fewer years. That bothers you. I understand.

You come from a place that doesn't think Irvin belongs in the Hall of Fame, because you are a retarded redskin fan. I come from a place that thinks Monk belongs in the Hall because he was a great football player, not the best, but a better fooball player than Guys like Namath, Swann, and Stallworth all members of the Hall of Fame. I understand, you can't see beyond team alligence.

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Adam......You are the man. Great email. Do you guys think Dr. Z will reply?

Not a chance. The guy has made his decision, and is not open to debate. After all, he's DR. Z, the great and wondrous football mind of SI. What does the average fan know in comparison to him?

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Agreed, I sent him this.

"Dr Z, all due respect but I do not understand this Art Monk thing. First, how does one average 13.5 yards a catch catching 800 8 yard hooks? Does this mean that you won't consider Marvin Harrison a potential HOFer because, obviously, since he's averaged 13.3 per catch he's just a possession WR? Not to mention that he's only getting that small average in an era where WRs are given run of the field unobstructed.

I'd also like to point out, and I wish I could find the reference, but I've seen you argue for a WR getting into the Hall because he played in an era where WRs were mugged consistently so his possesion type catches were that much more valuable. Would the same not be true of Art Monk? We're talking about one of the truly great people, not to mention WRs, to ever play the game of football.

There has to be some other reason than the 800 8 yard hook cop out you use why you don't think he's deserving. Is it because he wasn't flashy enough? Didn't talk to the media enough, didn't give you guys any sound bites? Should he have done more endzone dances to garner attention, maybe thrown some temper tantrums? As someone who thoroughly agreed with your disgust over Thurman Thomas not being MVP of the Bills first SB (or getting in the Hall) because they didn't win (wasn't his fault) I find it awfully contradictory that many disrespect Art's accomplishments based on his lack of flair. I just don't see how you can play a 16 year career, win 3 SBs, retire with almost every record for your position, always carry yourself in the most professional of manners and not be considered HOF worthy. What's the criteria here? It seems to me you voters are actually encouraging TO type antics to get attention, apparently that's what gets respect these days. Obviously, just going out and doing your job as well as anyone ever did, sacrificing for the team and being a winner aren't good enough anymore. Please shed some light, beyond the ridiculous 8 yard hook claim, as to why this man doesn't deserve to be in.

Adam"

Great response. Everytime someone says they sent an e-mail to one of the mediots I always cringe because half the time it just strengthens their stance. I just wish they would all be this well thought out and written. Kudos!!! :applause:

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good point..nice work:applause:

How so, maybe it was a good response for the homer morons of the world. Leading a league in Tds doesn't mean you were one of the top wr of your day nor does, leading the league in yrds. Take into account the fact that Irvin was on a run orientated team and produced almost as much as your beloved Art Monk in 3 fewer years, and over in 65 fewer games. Yet you fools claim Monk deserves in more. :doh:

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You are an idiot. Please refrain from responding to my posts. I prefer not to read moron... Thanks for your support.

Oh please you are going to tell me that Irvin wasn't one of the best WR of his era. If you are than you are just as big of an idiot as Dr. Z says. The bottom line is that Irvin was a top 3 wr in his era, and a superbowl winner, compiling almost as many yrds as Monk in 3 fewer years. That bothers you. I understand.

You come from a place that doesn't think Irvin belongs in the Hall of Fame, because you are a retarded redskin fan. I come from a place that thinks Monk belongs in the Hall because he was a great football player, not the best, but a better fooball player than Guys like Namath, Swann, and Stallworth all members of the Hall of Fame. I understand, you can't see beyond team alligence.

So your response to a fair and logical argument is to toss insult-lined derogations?

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Monk wasn't as good a reciever as Irvin was. Sure Monk had more receptions, and yrds, but also played longer. Irvin was a top 3 rec, in his day, Monk wasn't. There is a huge difference between the two.

The huge difference is that Irvin was often the only go-to WR on that team for most of his tenure. Yes, he had Alvin Harper (for 4 years), but that's basically it.

Meanwhile, from '86 to '91, Monk had to share balls with Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders. He still manage to average 68 catches a year for 917 yards.

Irvin never had a #3 that was the quality of Sanders, and only had a #2 for 4 years. (Amazingly enough, those four years were pretty much his best year. He really had one great season after that).

Certainly, Irvin deserves to get in, but so does Monk.

Jason

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The huge difference is that Irvin was often the only go-to WR on that team for most of his tenure. Yes, he had Alvin Harper (for 4 years), but that's basically it.

Meanwhile, from '86 to '91, Monk had to share balls with Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders. He still manage to average 68 catches a year for 917 yards.

Irvin never had a #3 that was the quality of Sanders, and only had a #2 for 4 years. (Amazingly enough, those four years were pretty much his best year. He really had one great season after that).

Certainly, Irvin deserves to get in, but so does Monk.

Jason

I didn't say Monk didn't belong in the Hall, in fact I went out of my way to say he did belong in...

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How so, maybe it was a good response for the homer morons of the world. Leading a league in Tds doesn't mean you were one of the top wr of your day nor does, leading the league in yrds. Take into account the fact that Irvin was on a run orientated team and produced almost as much as your beloved Art Monk in 3 fewer years, and over in 65 fewer games. Yet you fools claim Monk deserves in more. :doh:

Monk played on a run first team as well (actually more so than Irvin's Cowboy teams) and had to contend with having other guys like Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders eating into his production.

I think both players deserve to be in the Hall, but it's retarded that Monk has had to wait this long.

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Oh please you are going to tell me that Irvin wasn't one of the best WR of his era. If you are than you are just as big of an idiot as Dr. Z says. The bottom line is that Irvin was a top 3 wr in his era, and a superbowl winner, compiling almost as many yrds as Monk in 3 fewer years. That bothers you. I understand.

You come from a place that doesn't think Irvin belongs in the Hall of Fame, because you are a retarded redskin fan. I come from a place that thinks Monk belongs in the Hall because he was a great football player, not the best, but a better fooball player than Guys like Namath, Swann, and Stallworth all members of the Hall of Fame. I understand, you can't see beyond team alligence.

Off the top of my head I can think of three receivers who were better than Irvin in Jerry Rice, Cris Carter and Sterling Sharpe. IMO those three are without argument. I might also throw Tim Brown into that group as well.

And don't tell me where I am coming from because I have said time and time again that Michael Irvin deserves to be in the HOF. Feel free to search my posts because I have never said once that he shouldn't get in.

Way to take the high road with the name calling, Slappy. :doh:

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Irvin was a great receiver. I have no problem getting him into the HoF, but this thread is about Art Monk. Art Monk deserves it more than Michael Irvin because he played during a different era and actually held the career record for Interceptions. Art Monk was also an integral part of 3 different Super Bowl winning teams under 3 separate QBs and 3 separate RBs. Michael Irvin was one of the triplets during the Cowboy Super Bowl runs and those teams had continuity at nearly every offensive and defensive position. *begin gratuitous jab* The only record Michael Irvin has held is a criminal record. *end gratuitous jab* Still, I think he deserves the Hall... Just not at the expense of Art Monk.

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You are an idiot. Please refrain from responding to my posts. I prefer not to read moron... Thanks for your support.

.

oooooooo you got me. i will no longer respond to your post because you told me not to. i feel threatened by your obvious intelectual superioirity. do you deny Irvins cocaine addiction, i am sure he was setup by the dallas police department, you know how much they hate the dallas cowboys. Irvin never was a top 3 reciever and on character alone sholdnt ever be mentioned in the same sentence with ART MONK. really if your going to post BS like this on a SKINS board your the idiot. :dallasuck :dallasuck

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Oh please you are going to tell me that Irvin wasn't one of the best WR of his era. If you are than you are just as big of an idiot as Dr. Z says. The bottom line is that Irvin was a top 3 wr in his era, and a superbowl winner, compiling almost as many yrds as Monk in 3 fewer years. That bothers you. I understand.

Well, you are telling us that Monk wasn't a top tier WR of his era. That's just as ridiculous. Bottom line is Monk was the most prolific receiver of his era, a superbowl winner and broke 3 recieving records to Irvin's 0.

I dont know if that bothers you or not, and frankly I don't care. :)

But for you to suggest that Irvin's career with his fewer yards, receptions and TDs during a FAR more pass-freindly era and the most accurate QB in the game throwing him passes is somehow superior to Monk's smacks of the homerism you so readily bestow upon the rest of us.

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How so, maybe it was a good response for the homer morons of the world. Leading a league in Tds doesn't mean you were one of the top wr of your day nor does, leading the league in yrds. Take into account the fact that Irvin was on a run orientated team and produced almost as much as your beloved Art Monk in 3 fewer years, and over in 65 fewer games. Yet you fools claim Monk deserves in more. :doh:
Here's a little hint. Using "fool", "moron", and "idiot" nine hundred times just makes you look like a troll. It doesn't convince any of us of anything.
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Here's a little hint. Using "fool", "moron", and "idiot" nine hundred times just makes you look like a troll. It doesn't convince any of us of anything.

Indeed. And it can also make your stay here quite brief. Tone down the rhetoric. You shouldn't need it if you've got a real case.

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Lets say Dr. Z is correct and all Monk did was catch 800 8 yard hooks.

What does that say about all the defenses the Skins faced over that time period? Do none of those players/coaches on those defenses deserve the Hall because they couldn't defend an 8 yard hook? If thats ALL he did, why didn't anyone ever stop him?

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Is that why Irvin was only in the top 3 in receptions twice in his career, top 3 in receiving yards three times in his career and never in the top 3 in receiving TDs in his career? Just because he stood up and gyrated making sure you noticed every single thing he did doesn't make him a top 3 receiver.

Perfect. :applause: Nothing else on the matter of Irvin needs to be said except that if there were a hall of cocaine fame, he would be a first time lock. :doh:

I would also like to add that Irvin is to the NFL what Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown are to the music industry. :doh:

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Lets say Dr. Z is correct and all Monk did was catch 800 8 yard hooks.

What does that say about all the defenses the Skins faced over that time period? Do none of those players/coaches on those defenses deserve the Hall because they couldn't defend an 8 yard hook? If thats ALL he did, why didn't anyone ever stop him?

Wow, I am a published author, I feel special!

Someone on here called me a jerk, well that was my goal...perhaps it is time to annoy the good Doctor more...

I shall have to bring up his 800 8-yrd hook, and to average, about 13 ypc, what does the average of his other 140 catches need to be?

MWAHAHAHAHA!

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If Charlie Joyner, James Lofton, John Stallworth and Steve Largent are in the HOF... there is no one going to convince me Art Monk is not worthy.

and for what it's worth, even Michael Irvin thinks Monk belongs in before him.

The only reason Monk is not in the Hall right now is simply media bias. He was not a media friendly guy, close lipped, and quiet... no quotes or antics to write about... this is my main complaint about sportswriters having a vote... for all of their rhetoric and claims of non bias, personal feelings do creep into their vote.. plus many do not understand the game, if they did more OL would be in the hall.

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There's really no reason for anyone to waste their time e-mailing Dr. Z. He has been using the "8-yard hooks" line since 1984, and he's not going to change his mind anytime soon.

If you want to help Art Monk make the Hall, you should e-mail your hometown Hall of Fame voter (if you're not from DC) or target voters that are more open to changing their minds.

Here's my list of voters: http://artmonk.wordpress.com/hall-of-fame-voters/

At this point, Cliff Christl and Dr. Z are going to be dead-set against Monk no matter what anyone says. However, people like Rick Gosselin, Ron Borges, Mark Gaughan, Tony Grossi, Bob Gretz, and many others could be convinced with a little work...

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There's really no reason for anyone to waste their time e-mailing Dr. Z. He has been using the "8-yard hooks" line since 1984, and he's not going to change his mind anytime soon.

he readily admits his dislike of all things Redskin, and he has had a bias for as long as I can remember... and I don't know why. Maybe George Allen booted him out of camp for being a spy :laugh:

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