dreamingwolf Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 ok let me get this straight, voting is bad cause everyone has a say and everyone isnt as smart as you. However, if your ideals where existant regardless of the vote you would be ok with the stupid people voting? Is this what Im hearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 ok let me get this straight, voting is bad cause everyone has a say and everyone isnt as smart as you. However, if your ideals where existant regardless of the vote you would be ok with the stupid people voting?Is this what Im hearing? Democracy is not freedom. Let us not forget the founding fathers were extremely skeptical of democracy ( rightfully so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Democracy is not freedom. Let us not forget the founding fathers were extremely skeptical of democracy ( rightfully so). your right, having no government is true freedom. I personally would rather be able to vote than not be able to vote. Thats really the choices in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 ok let me get this straight, voting is bad cause everyone has a say and everyone isnt as smart as you. However, if your ideals where existant regardless of the vote you would be ok with the stupid people voting?Is this what Im hearing? I think he's trying to say that illusion of freedom is worse than oppression. That illusion of choice is worse than the absence of. Whether such charge is applicable to US is seems like the real debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProBowler Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I think he's trying to say that illusion of freedom is worse than oppression. That illusion of choice is worse than the absence of. Whether such charge is applicable to US is seems like the real debate. Couldn't have said it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 well then lets just kill everyone and be done with it already. we are too smart for ourselves. cant vote cause its a lie, cant live under thumb cause its cruel, cant have anarchy cause we are a bunch of asses. we just need to destroy our selves already, but we are to girly to pull the trigger. Where the hell is that asteroid!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProBowler Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 well then lets just kill everyone and be done with it already. we are too smart for ourselves. cant vote cause its a lie, cant live under thumb cause its cruel, cant have anarchy cause we are a bunch of asses. we just need to destroy our selves already, but we are to girly to pull the trigger. Where the hell is that asteroid!!! LOL, believe it or not I think thats the course were heading at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurseReversed Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 This is what really baffles me about other americans. Some are so quick to point out so called "terrorists". I hate to inform some of you but americians have killed more innocent people in war than all other wars combined. So who is really the terrorists? You can put whatever defenition on terrorism you want but it all boils down to using a "killing force" to accomplish an objective. Just like smaller countries can't defend themselves from the US's superior weapons. Nobdy can defend suicide bombers either and guess what these people ARE willing to die for what they believe in, are There is noway that the US can police the world forever. Other countries will not stand for it especially North Korea who we helped divide from the south to begin with and they can't wait to get even. I hate to inform you but the americans have SAVED more civilians in war then all other NATIONS combined. Ironic twist isnt it? Listen, am I glad of the outcome of WWII of course, but WWII was about alot of different things and not just Hitler. I know all about Pearl Harbor also but I don't believe a strategic naval attack killing 2,000 plus people mostly millitary in a time of world war is even comparable to a attack on a millitary base in Hiroshima that killed 60,00 plus including who knows how many civillians. It did end the war but was it really worth it? That's like saying meet me outside and were going to fight and you agree and I hit you and you shoot me with a damn bazooka and kill me along with 20 other people. Yea you won the fight but at what cost? I guess its a problem of perpespective for you. See that wasnt a strategic naval attack at a time of war. We were not at war with them it was a suprise attack that started a war. One that cost us 100's of thousands of lives. I dont know if you realize how close we were to losing that war, or maybe you dont know how close we came to losing it on the german front either. sigh... can you imagine 3 qtrs of the world under nazi and imperial japan rule? When youve stared a reality like that dead in the face you drop every bomb you have no matter how big and bad it is. That was a life or death struggle that we squeaked by on. We were then and are now going to make sure that a situation like that never occurs, and we have done so primarily due to "superior weaponry" I'm not trying to make ant-american statements. I probably could have used better language but my whole point to my thread is democracy is not the perfect government either, especially when it can be bought and only benfits the rich just like the rest of them. It's just like any other form of government. Idealy they should all work and we all should live happily ever after but we don't and never will. What I am saying is our government is trying to spread democracy like it's going to solve all thier problems and it's not. We are relatively a new country and because we have had a little over a couple hundred years of success dosen't mean squat when other countries have 10 times the history we do. We are trying to take over the world by pushing a global economy and hiding behind democracy when deep down we all know how corrupt it can be and in my opinion the reason we are spreading so called democracy by means of war is because were at a stage where it's beginning to fail and other countries are not going to stand for it. Again another problem of perpesctive for you. News flash nothing is perfect or probably even close. But democracy is the closest any government has ever come by far. You emphasize your focus on the economics of democracy or your percieved bias towards the wealthy. The truth is democracy is superior because of the freedoms and rights involved within it. These are not illusions my friend they are the envy of every person living in every oppresive country in the world. You state that deep down we all know how corrupt it can be, well I dont think your looking deep enough. Truth is in america today we have it the best that any human in any nation has ever had it in the history of mankind. We are a model of success, despite our many flaws and perceived imperfections. Democracy is a model of success despite the contradictory examples you can come up with. Its base is in the fundamental "We hold these truths to be self evident" human rights and freedoms that belong to every human being on earth not just us, and unfortunately they are exclusive to democracy and capitalism. No other govt or economy has or will work because of the unavoidable contradictions to those rights that lie within. I think you need to come to terms with that reality, and join the fight on the right side of the morality. SERIOUSLY read this, the whole thing please, I know its long but the best parts are at the end, you owe it to yourself. Let it sink in and maybe you will realize what we and you have here is something special and WORTH spreading http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.19267/article_detail.asp here is my favorite excerpt from it but still you must read it all America’s founders solved two great problems which are a source of perennial misery and conflict in many other societies—the problem of scarcity, and the problem of religious and tribal conflict. They invented a new regime in which citizens would enjoy a wide range of freedoms—economic freedom, political freedom, and freedom of speech and religion—in order to shape their own lives and pursue happiness. By protecting religion and government from each other, and by directing the energies of the citizens toward trade and commerce, the American founders created a rich, dynamic, and peaceful society. It is now the hope of countless millions all across the world. thanks to ancalgon the black for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 can you imagine 3 qtrs of the world under nazi and imperial japan rule? atleast there wouldnt be any illusions of freedom or pesky voting going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Hermagg, 1) Your "Waco" reference wouldn't be referring to the time when the FBI deliberately murdered men, women, and children back in 1993 at Mt. Carmel, would it?Which, I might add, is NOT IN WACO.2) "open a history book"----------Well, I have a Bachelor's degree in guess what? History! Do you? 3) OMG! They verbally threatened us! That hasn't happened before, has it? Maybe you should "open a history book" and do some research! Just out of curiosity, Mr. History BS (not that there's anything wrong with that), could you please educate the rest of us by providing some references to this event in which the FBI (an organization, not just some people) deliberatly "murdered" men, women and children? I'm certain that with your credentials it would be easy to come up with something to support your contention that Murder (as opposed to accidental death) occurred. That the murder was deliberate. (Which, to me, means "planned in advance".) That the deliberate murder was an act of the FBI as a whole (as opposed to one or more individuals.) (My bet is you can't even document "a".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 your right, having no government is true freedom. I personally would rather be able to vote than not be able to vote. Thats really the choices in the world. Having no government does not mean freedom. Power acts in many ways. The ideal scenario would be to brainwash people to accept something that protects those they detest. The Bill of Rights has done this rather well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.