The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[SonOfWashington]

Totally agree. There are no characters in wrestling anymore, only *******s. Everyone is an ******* to each other, that's it, they just wear different clothing than each other.

Cena has to be the most suck ass character ever. I actually feel sorry for the guy, he probably thinks the same thing. You ever think Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior or The Undertaker thought their character was stupid? No, they knew they were badasses.

There are so many people like Cena in this world, and they're ALL douchebags. White people who try so hard to be "from da hood." Yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo. C'mon man, the face of wrestling is a douchebag hack freestyler. You're basing this mother****er off of Eminem.

I still get a kick out of hearing "WHAT?!" from the crowd after someone ends a sentence. Wonder how long that will last. I'd crack a big smile if I heard that on a WW(G) Monday Night Nitro Raw Superstars. Stone Cold was the last great character wrestling developed, IMO.

And what's with Bastista, Rob Van Dam, and especially ghey ass Jeff Hardy? Is that the homosexuals' gift from McMahon? These guys are absolute snore-fests. Give me a friggen break. The characters are so typical and stale.

I don't know why they can't copy off the golden age of wrestling. People say that the 80's and early-to-mid 90's were the "golden age", but it seems so easy to replicate as far as simply conceiving a character goes. Make someone a psychopath, make somebody incredibly over the top, make somebody indestructable until they lose at Wrestlemania by way of miracle. WTF?!

I think the biggest problem is that people are so friggen lame on the mic these days. The one on one interviews need to be brought back. They are way too few and far between. Let people showcase their mic skills, if they have any that is. That dude who is rivals with Cena (he was on a reality show or something) seemed to have some chops.

Just to highlight a couple points:

1) Cena isn't much of a rapper-type anymore. Now he's just a "hero." He's constantly saying how he "never backs down" and he fights for the "moment." He also does this salute when he comes out, which really pisses me off. This guy's no Marine. And when he came out to that U.S. Marine Corps drill, that pissed me off even further.

2) Jeff Hardy and RVD are long gone from WWE. RVD longer than Jeff. They're both in TNA now. Batista used to be an animal, but now he really has no personality.

We won't be seeing a switch off of this sadly unless Vince stops making money from the "12-year-old crowd," or dies.

Edited April 3, 2010 by SonOfWashington

[RammsteinSkins]

And what's with Bastista, Rob Van Dam, and especially ghey ass Jeff Hardy? Is that the homosexuals' gift from McMahon? These guys are absolute snore-fests. Give me a friggen break. The characters are so typical and stale

How dare you... :pfft:

[SonOfWashington]

How dare you... :pfft:

You don't wanna mess with RVDisturbedSkins.

[RammsteinSkins]

You don't wanna mess with RVDisturbedSkins.

You mad.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Just to highlight a couple points:

1) Cena isn't much of a rapper-type anymore. Now he's just a "hero." He's constantly saying how he "never backs down" and he fights for the "moment." He also does this salute when he comes out, which really pisses me off. This guy's no Marine. And when he came out to that U.S. Marine Corps drill, that pissed me off even further.

2) Jeff Hardy and RVD are long gone from WWE. RVD longer than Jeff. They're both in TNA now. Batista used to be an animal, but now he really has no personality.

We won't be seeing a switch off of this sadly unless Vince stops making money from the "12-year-old crowd," or dies.

Thanks for the update, those changes seem for the better. The WWE is so bland and TNA is like the Seniors in golf.

[Mr. Sinister]

SonofWashington, I guess I DID pick a good time to retire lol what a joke. I thought Cena would have been booted by now. His act was stale even back then. I'm glad I watched during the Attitude age. You couldn't beat those storylines dude. I honestly think wrestling was never the same after the Hogan v. Rock showdown, it just could'nt get any bigger then that IMO. Glad to see Taker's still doing his thing. Aaaaahhhh the memories. I could reminisce for days.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Mr. Sinister

[SonOfWashington]

SonofWashington, I guess I DID pick a good time to retire lol what a joke. I thought Cena would have been booted by now. His act was stale even back then. I'm glad I watched during the Attitude age. You couldn't beat those storylines dude. I honestly think wrestling was never the same after the Hogan v. Rock showdown, it just could'nt get any bigger then that IMO. Glad to see Taker's still doing his thing. Aaaaahhhh the memories. I could reminisce for days.

I started watching when I was young. Right around the end of the Attitude Era. WrestleMania 2000. The Alliance. TLC. The separating of the brands. The Rock, man! Good times. WM X8 and XIX were good too.

Man, it started going downhill right around there. It has it's moments, but it just doesn't deliver like it used to.

[Teller]

Man, it started going downhill right around there. It has it's moments, but it just doesn't deliver like it used to.

For me, it ended when cars started exploding in the parking lot, and people "died" and then came back. Or when Big Show fell from that balcony, "died" and came back.

At that point, it started becoming a regular soap opera. I guess next, people from "Lumina" are going to invade, and it'll be them versus the Really New World Order.

Seriously though, I miss the old days; the real characters that someone mentioned earlier. (Man, I hated Nikolai Volkoff. I actually busted a blood vessel in my eye, booing him at the old Cap Centre. Literally. )

I guess I'm getting older, and surely that's part of it. But the other part is realizing that the Iranian Iron Sheik, and the Iraqi Colonel Mustaafa are the SAME GUY.

Do something innovative, Vince. Draw back in those of us who want to love your company again -- and aren't stupid. $.02

[Mr. Sinister]

I started watching when I was young. Right around the end of the Attitude Era. WrestleMania 2000. The Alliance. TLC. The separating of the brands. The Rock, man! Good times. WM X8 and XIX were good too.

Man, it started going downhill right around there. It has it's moments, but it just doesn't deliver like it used to.

I actually credit Lesnar & Cena for the main reason why I stopped watching, Two pointless characters. They made it worse when they tried to make him a face. Then the Goldberg Lesnar match at Wrestlemania XX put the nail in the coffin for me.

[Teller]

I actually credit Lesnar & Cena for the main reason why I stopped watching, Two pointless characters. They made it worse when they tried to make him a face. Then the Goldberg Lesnar match at Wrestlemania XX put the nail in the coffin for me.

I actually felt bad for them, hearing everyone around me boo unmercifully as they tried to build up tension for the match.

Cool story though, I was sitting right at the edge of the stage, so I could see everything, but see backstage too. I was a HUGE WCW fan, and when Goldberg got backstage after the match, I screamed until I couldn't scream anymore, trying to get his attention.

He finally looked up, pointed at me, and unwrapped one of his gloves. He tried to throw it to me, but it curved at the last second, and went to an 11- or 12-year old kid beside me. I really wanted to dive in front of the kid and swipe it, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Still, pretty cool moment.

[SonOfWashington]

I actually credit Lesnar & Cena for the main reason why I stopped watching, Two pointless characters. They made it worse when they tried to make him a face. Then the Goldberg Lesnar match at Wrestlemania XX put the nail in the coffin for me.

That was awful. Other than that, it was a great night.

[Spartacus87]

Does anyone else remember when Cena first debuted on WWE television?

He was "The Prospect" or some cheesy generic name, and he wore these short green speedo like tights, and he came out and slapped Kurt Angle. Then Angle beat the crap out of him and Cena came back on TV some time later as the rapper gimmick.

Cena is absolutely the worst. Just so damn bland. They try to give him this attitude like he doesn't take crap from anyone and he stands up for what he believes in, representing the blue collar people out there, but it's like this watered down G-rated Stone Cold impression.

That salute he does is just pandering. Everything he does actually is pandering.

Randy Orton might be worse though. Is there a more boring guy on the planet than Randy Orton? His "character" is rolling his eyes around and making faces like he's so crazy he might snap at any minute, and every promo he cuts is completely monotone. And to top it off he has a ton of crappy tattoos.

I don't mind Batista. I haven't seen him in awhile but I always thought he was decent, especially for being on the bigger wrestlers. A lot of times those guys are just STRAIGHT POWER AARGHH like Vince McMahon loves so much, but Batista's decently athletic for a guy with his build.

Just picture what would have happened in say, 2001, if The Rock was in the ring cutting a promo and Shamus or Jack Swagger came out and interrupted him.

And after you imagine how that would have likely played out, realize that these guys today are the actual world champions in the organization. Pitiful really.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Spartacus87

[ACW]

Cena was the Prototype.

And people either love him or will pay to see him get his ass kicked. Can't blame Vince for that.

[Skin'emAlive]

^^^

I believe it might go something like this:

Rock: " Excuse me son, what is your name?"

Lame new WWE Character: " My nam.."

Rock: " It doesnt matter what your name is."

Then he would follow that up by smacking the taste out of his mouth.

[Spartacus87]

This was very well put.

I think the Attitude era is what ultimately killed wrestling. While it was the best period IMO it ruined it because now everyone has to be "too real". I'd love to see them go back to the early 90's style, but I think it's going to be a long time before we see any innovation.

The gimmicks of the 80s and very early 90s wouldn't work anymore.

Audiences love realistic entertainment. You see it in movies, comics, shows, video games, etc., these days. That's a trend that's really picked up since the start of the decade.

Especially with the internet being such a major force out there now, as opposed to the 90s, WWE couldn't put over any real lighthearted kinds of characters.

There's nothing wrong with guys being "real." Stone Cold was "real." The Rock was "real." Triple H in his prime was "real." It's just that the WWE roster needs some major trimming, they need to join the rosters together, and they need more naturally charismatic guys, and fit current guys to better roles.

Cena being a prime example. I hate Cena, but what his is deal as a character? He floats between being a face and a heel, the crowd reaction is always mixed to him, and it's like the WWE really doesn't know what they want him to be. They just need to find some way to define him on one side or the other and let him try to grow into that.

[Spartacus87]

^^^

I believe it might go something like this:

Rock: " Excuse me son' date=' what is your name?"

Lame new WWE Character: " My nam.."

Rock: " It doesnt matter what your name is."

Then he would follow that up by smacking the taste out of his mouth.[/quote'] Haha, exactly my point.

They would be the jokester wrestlers that get fed to guys like The Rock and Chris Jericho to tear down and embarrass before heading back to doing matches on Sunday Night Heat.

[RedskinsFan28]

Just to highlight a couple points:

1) Cena isn't much of a rapper-type anymore. Now he's just a "hero." He's constantly saying how he "never backs down" and he fights for the "moment." He also does this salute when he comes out, which really pisses me off. This guy's no Marine. And when he came out to that U.S. Marine Corps drill, that pissed me off even further.

I can never pass up on bashing Cena, even if it's :beatdeadhorse:

Thank you SO much for mentioning this. This bum Cena has been given special entrances since WM22. I hate when he does that salute. The guy panders so much, his promos are stupid, and his facial expressions are so cartoonish. Add to that, EVERY match (and buildup) is the same: some guy who gets the upperhand throughout the match build, stupid Cole & King worried if Cena can "overcome the odds" for the billionth time, and during the match, Cena gets whooped early, only to get his "Six moves of doom" in and find some way to "pull out a win." Now he's a 9-time champ....in a 5 year span?!?! That helps cheapen the WWE & World Heavyweight Titles a ton. I remember when Bret Hart defeated The Undertaker at the '97 SummerSlam, became a 5-time WWF Champion, and thinking, "Wow, this dude is in elite company; tremendous accomplishment." Now, he probably doesn't rank in the top 10 of WWE/World Title reigns all-time.

With Shawn Michaels gone, I'm going to find it hard to really root for anybody. Jericho is alright, Edge would be perfect if they didn't make him a babyface (and that stupid "Spear!" storyline). CM Punk is probably my fave now since he's a solid wrestler and delivers solid promos. This 12-month period is going to be very crucial to the progress and success of the WWE over the next 3-5 years. If I'm looking at ANOTHER WrestleMania with John Cena defending or going for the title again, Vince can look elsewhere for $54.99

[blue collar]

I can never pass up on bashing Cena, even if it's :beatdeadhorse:

Thank you SO much for mentioning this. This bum Cena has been given special entrances since WM22. I hate when he does that salute. The guy panders so much, his promos are stupid, and his facial expressions are so cartoonish. Add to that, EVERY match (and buildup) is the same: some guy who gets the upperhand throughout the match build, stupid Cole & King worried if Cena can "overcome the odds" for the billionth time, and during the match, Cena gets whooped early, only to get his "Six moves of doom" in and find some way to "pull out a win." Now he's a 9-time champ....in a 5 year span?!?! That helps cheapen the WWE & World Heavyweight Titles a ton. I remember when Bret Hart defeated The Undertaker at the '97 SummerSlam, became a 5-time WWF Champion, and thinking, "Wow, this dude is in elite company; tremendous accomplishment." Now, he probably doesn't rank in the top 10 of WWE/World Title reigns all-time.

With Shawn Michaels gone, I'm going to find it hard to really root for anybody. Jericho is alright, Edge would be perfect if they didn't make him a babyface (and that stupid "Spear!" storyline). CM Punk is probably my fave now since he's a solid wrestler and delivers solid promos. This 12-month period is going to be very crucial to the progress and success of the WWE over the next 3-5 years. If I'm looking at ANOTHER WrestleMania with John Cena defending or going for the title again, Vince can look elsewhere for $54.99

Well said. Here we have the untalented Cena being a 9 time world champ and guys likes Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson has never been world champ and a legend like Dusty Rhodes only held the world title on 3 occassions.

[Mr. Sinister]

Well said. Here we have the untalented Cena being a 9 time world champ and guys likes Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson has never been world champ and a legend like Dusty Rhodes only held the world title on 3 occassions.

Lol at Cena being a 9 time Champ. The WWE basically pushed this guy up the proverbial ladder and threatened to shoot him if he ever came down. What a bum, and he had the nerve to call out The Rock when he left. Total douche!!

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

The gimmicks of the 80s and very early 90s wouldn't work anymore.

Sure they would. If a prime Ric Flair, Macho Man or Bushwhackers came out to talk **** with Jack Swagger, Randy Orton or Crime Time, the oldschoolers would make the new breed look like jobbers. Period.

If ADULTS need wrestling to be "realistic", they should look towards getting rid of the double flying suplex power spinning drop slams and less towards making the characters have the personalities of drywall. I think it's safe to say that sprucing up the characters and getting some much more savvy people on the microphone wouldn't hurt at all. In fact I think there's a huge untapped former wrestling fanbase waiting patiently for that to happen.

The key to wrestling is that the matches are merely a formality, the build up is what gives them excitement. You think Hogan was successful because of his grand total of 3 wrestling moves he'd execute during a match? No, he made people freak out with anticipation. If you can't sell your match, if it doesn't seem like two immortal forces are steaming towards each other going in to a pay per view, you're not going to ever reach that aura of the early 90's ever again.

A ton of people are going to watch this stuff, and yeah it might be more popular now, but I think that's inevitable. Kids would love this stuff no matter who the face of the industry is...See: John Cena. If someone stopped watching Wrestling because the "characters are to unbelievable", then maybe they need to watch MMA or boxing. This always has been and always should be a broadway play of superheros vs. supervillains.

Even Stone Cold, however subtle it was, was a superhero to so many people. He drank beer and became the toughest SOB on the planet. Who the **** doesn't want to do that? Now we have Randy Orton, that looks around at people. That's what people want to be? That's appealing?

Bring back my wrestling, that's what I want my kid to watch.

Edited April 4, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Spartacus87]

Sure they would. If a prime Ric Flair, Macho Man or Bushwhackers came out to talk **** with Jack Swagger, Randy Orton or Crime Time, the oldschoolers would make the new breed look like jobbers. Period.

Ric Flair is the greatest on the mic of all time.

He'd make anybody look like a jobber. Flair could come out and start reading the phone book and the crowd would get jacked.

If ADULTS need wrestling to be "realistic", they should look towards getting rid of the double flying suplex power spinning drop slams and less towards making the characters have the personalities of drywall. I think it's safe to say that sprucing up the characters and getting some much more savvy people on the microphone wouldn't hurt at all. In fact I think there's a huge untapped former wrestling fanbase waiting patiently for that to happen.

The key to wrestling is that the matches are merely a formality, the build up is what gives them excitement. You think Hogan was successful because of his grand total of 3 wrestling moves he'd execute during a match? No, he made people freak out with anticipation. If you can't sell your match, if it doesn't seem like two immortal forces are steaming towards each other going in to a pay per view, you're not going to ever reach that aura of the early 90's ever again.

A ton of people are going to watch this stuff, and yeah it might be more popular now, but I think that's inevitable. Kids would love this stuff no matter who the face of the industry is...See: John Cena. If someone stopped watching Wrestling because the "characters are to unbelievable", then maybe they need to watch MMA or boxing. This always has been and always should be a broadway play of superheros vs. supervillains.

Even Stone Cold, however subtle it was, was a superhero to so many people. He drank beer and became the toughest SOB on the planet. Who the **** doesn't want to do that? Now we have Randy Orton, that looks around at people. That's what people want to be? That's appealing?

Bring back my wrestling, that's what I want my kid to watch.

We're sort of in agreement here actually.

I even used Stone Cold as an example of a character that's "real" but still inspiring and charismatic enough to win mass audiences over.

Kurt Angle was another great one for that time. Legitimate Olympic gold medalist, with a great angle around looking down on pro wrestlers as being inferior in quality, but he was awesome on the mic and was right up there with Chris Benoit as the best technical wrestler in the company.

My point was that audiences favor more realistic characters today than the more cartoon-ish, larger than life characters of the 80s and very early 90s.

That's why the "Attitude" era was so great. The characters were edgy and did some crazy stuff (Triple H driving a tank around), but they really weren't out there and people could actually identify with elements of Stone Cold, The Rock, even a guy like Mick Foley a little bit.

It's just a matter of getting the right talent to pull those angles off, and using current guys in better roles. The guys they have today aren't very good on the microphone, and only some of them are decent wrestlers. And there are a lot of poorly formed characters in the main event roles too.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Spartacus87

[blue collar]

Not everyone was into the WWF in the 80's. The old NWA was as real as pro wrestling could get. To this day, the NWA between 85-88 was the best pro wrestling I have ever seen.

[Devastate]

RIP Chris Kanyon

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/7190.html

[blue collar]

TNA Lockdown Tonight.

Edited April 18, 2010 by blue collar

[cyfar]

Angle and Anderson put on a hell of a match last night. It easily stole the show. I suggest you all find footage on this, it was amazing.