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The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

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I also agree about the titles. Waters down everything. I honestly think they don't need separate brands anymore, because their talent pool isn't large enough to spread it out on multiple shows. Not anymore. Your idea of re-birthing a Monday Nitro/WCW is pretty cool though.

And they really need to stop with this heel Michael Cole/face Jerry Lawler stuff. That's not their personalities. King is a heel lifer, and a smartass. Seeing him be the voice of reason against Michael Cole's terrible heel shtick, is literally heartbreaking.

THIS THIS THIS!!!! You nailed it. Everything you said. Especially the underlined part.

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Ugh, 3 hours? Now they really need to do a better job working on good storylines for all their titles. Better start thinking up some strong long term tag-teams like when they had the Hardy's and Edge/Christian. Not just two guys they slap together.

legionofdoom_1213946831.jpg

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Uhhhhhhhhwhaaaaaaataruuuussssshhhhh!

---------- Post added May-17th-2012 at 08:21 PM ----------

Going for three hours is quite possibly the worst thing they could've done. They already don't have enough substance as it is.

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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Ugh, 3 hours? Now they really need to do a better job working on good storylines for all their titles. Better start thinking up some strong long term tag-teams like when they had the Hardy's and Edge/Christian. Not just two guys they slap together.

All the great tag teams have been just two guys slapped together. But you need to make them a team. It can be outfits or double team moves or any number of things.

I have no idea why tag teams are so out of favor now.

Anyway, Raw is just awful now and it's going to get worse when they go to three hours.

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They are really dropping the ball with the Punk/Bryan story. Nobody wants to see Big Show and Cena again. This Punk/Bryan situation is good not only as a story, but the two could go. You give them 30 min in the ring together, and they can tear stuff up...

As far as the tag-team division goes, I am really starting to see things progress. Like Buford said, hopefully with the three hour, they can develop them more.

They are taking a huge risk with this. the hardcore fans are already down on their product and the colossal collapse of Nitro going 3-Hours is still on their minds. I hope this doesn't backfire on them.

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All the great tag teams have been just two guys slapped together. But you need to make them a team. It can be outfits or double team moves or any number of things.

I have no idea why tag teams are so out of favor now.

Anyway' date=' Raw is just awful now and it's going to get worse when they go to three hours.[/quote']

Without knowing you replied, I was thinking 5 min out about how awful Raw was last night and wanted to post about it. You are probably right. Most tag teams are probably just put together and they stick. Still, they need to look at the roster and say "Who are two guys that could be allies for a long time if we tweak their characters just slightly?". I hated it when Kane and Big Show were together. Besides being big, they had nothing in common.

Rhodes and Dibiase were a good pair and I think it would be better if they were both long term tag-team champs/contenders. Why did they dump the Heart Dynasty? That worked and probably could have grown. I'd like to see William Regal manage a stable of all Europeans. Like Barrett and Mason Ryan as a tag team, That Aksana woman, Maybe Sheamus as their top guy. Stuff like that works and get all their people on TV when one guy goes out to talk. 2nd Gen DX, the Nation.....that stuff worked.

Last night was the same stuff recycled. Raw GM, Board or Directors, WWE COO, all that nonsense is dumb and unneeded.

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There are, collectively, a handful of posters on this board who I have no doubt could write awesome storylines and angles for the WWE.

I'm in the same boat as eliminating the two brands, and getting rid of the World Championship.

However, the reason they're not doing this has got to be their target audience these days: kids. They don't care about stables. They could care less about the brands. They just want their John Cenas.

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There are, collectively, a handful of posters on this board who I have no doubt could write awesome storylines and angles for the WWE.

I'm in the same boat as eliminating the two brands, and getting rid of the World Championship.

However, the reason they're not doing this has got to be their target audience these days: kids. They don't care about stables. They could care less about the brands. They just want their John Cenas.

You also are probably right...and that's sad.

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There are, collectively, a handful of posters on this board who I have no doubt could write awesome storylines and angles for the WWE.

I'm in the same boat as eliminating the two brands, and getting rid of the World Championship.

However, the reason they're not doing this has got to be their target audience these days: kids. They don't care about stables. They could care less about the brands. They just want their John Cenas.

That's the same mindset that almost got them put out of business. The Body Donnas, The Roadie, The Godwynns and their stupid slop ****. All for the kiddies...

Honestly, I still find it amazing that a company so trendsetting, would revert back to what they're doing now. They could do sooo much better than this. At this point, the only way they'll change is if another company forces them to.

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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There are, collectively, a handful of posters on this board who I have no doubt could write awesome storylines and angles for the WWE.

I'm in the same boat as eliminating the two brands, and getting rid of the World Championship.

However, the reason they're not doing this has got to be their target audience these days: kids. They don't care about stables. They could care less about the brands. They just want their John Cenas.

Don't speak the truth, it makes me wanna cry. :(

I can dig that European stable Buford. That would be sweet....

What do you all think of that new dude of Smackdown, Damien Sandow. I think he used to be with the WWE before but was fired. Anyways, I think he has potential. In his only two appearances he received some pretty good heel heat... But of course we all know that creative will find a way to mess it up. :doh:

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That's the same mindset that almost got them put out of business. The Body Donnas, The Roadie, The Godwynns and their stupid slop ****. All for the kiddies...

Honestly, I still find it amazing that a company so trendsetting, would revert back to what they're doing now. They could do sooo much better than this. At this point, the only way they'll change is if another company forces them to.

Ohh man...Skip and Sunny! Phineus and Henry!

They have no real competition, either, which I'm sure plays a part. Many will argue that the Attitude era was the best era in professional wresting. I attribute that to the heated feud between the two brands. WWE was, as you mentioned earlier, going down a watered down, lame path. WCW saved them.

I would LOVE a European invasion stable. I thought the Nation of Domination was brilliant. I think superstars who were STRICTLY tag team dudes were GREAT for the brand! Sadly, I think we'll never see another Legion of Doom. :(

Edited by RVAbrendan

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I don't buy that. Kids are kids. They can be trained to like whatever you want them to like.

Kids worshipped Hulk Hogan. And they cared about the title belt because Hogan cared about the title belt.

The biggest problem I have with Cena is that he is training the audience to view everything has a huge joke. Get beat up by Brock Lesnar? No big deal. Have a match with the Evil GM? Treat it as a joke. Lose to the Rock? Eh...it happens.

When Cena's neck or hip or whatever eventually goes, the WWE is going to be screwed because they have a generation of fans who have been trained to believe that being John Cena is more important than being a champion. And the next person won't be able to do Cena as well as Cena.

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I haven't watched Raw in a couple weeks, but's what's up with Heyman? Is he still getting face time? I personally think he needs to be heavily involved in al storylines. Dude has a great wrestling mind.

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I don't buy that. Kids are kids. They can be trained to like whatever you want them to like.

Kids worshipped Hulk Hogan. And they cared about the title belt because Hogan cared about the title belt.

The biggest problem I have with Cena is that he is training the audience to view everything has a huge joke. Get beat up by Brock Lesnar? No big deal. Have a match with the Evil GM? Treat it as a joke. Lose to the Rock? Eh...it happens.

When Cena's neck or hip or whatever eventually goes' date=' the WWE is going to be screwed because they have a generation of fans who have been trained to believe that being John Cena is more important than being a champion. And the next person won't be able to do Cena as well as Cena.[/quote']

That's a fair argument, and you're probably right.

My biggest problem with Cena (and hell, 90% of the talent) is the lack of technical wrestling skills, and the ability to sell injury. I feel like ALL i see anymore in WWE is: irish whips, clotheslines, bodyslams, and finishers. I mean, I know Hogan wasn't a very good wrestler, but at least he could captivate the audience when he hulked out!

What happened to escaping an arm bar with that spinny-flippy thing that Bret/Owen Hart used to do? What happened to german suplexes? I feel like the quality of in-ring talent is severely lacking. This is something I always thought WCW was superior with...

Edited by RVAbrendan

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I don't buy that. Kids are kids. They can be trained to like whatever you want them to like.

Kids worshipped Hulk Hogan. And they cared about the title belt because Hogan cared about the title belt.

The biggest problem I have with Cena is that he is training the audience to view everything has a huge joke. Get beat up by Brock Lesnar? No big deal. Have a match with the Evil GM? Treat it as a joke. Lose to the Rock? Eh...it happens.

When Cena's neck or hip or whatever eventually goes' date=' the WWE is going to be screwed because they have a generation of fans who have been trained to believe that being John Cena is more important than being a champion. And the next person won't be able to do Cena as well as Cena.[/quote']

I think the point is that kids are an easier sell. The stories need less development and depth......and they will still beg their parents for action figures/video games. Truth is...what am I really going to buy? Maybe WM once a year. Doubtful for other PPVs unless they do a much better job building it up.

The lack of talent in the ring and on the mic is pretty bad right now. How do they fix that? Slower development? acting classes? what?

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Amongst a lot, I think WWE also needs to rework their commentating. Michael Cole is by far the worst. I like King, and WWE is stuck on not putting JR on because of his Bells Palsy. I think what they need right now, is Joey Styles. He can be your JR. Jim Ross could make anything interesting. You could record yourself painting a wall and have Jim Ross talk about it and get tons of hits. Joey Styles is already with the WWE, has the voice to capture attention, and can make the worst matches interesting.

The Belts no longer mean anything. Why in the world was Bryan/Punk on before Ryback/Camacho and Cena/Laurantis at Over The Limit? You have 2 solid, solid wrestlers competing for your main Title Belt and it's an afterthought? The main storyline should have been centered around that match and not an attempt of a re-make of Austin/McMahon.

I certainly echo the need for more tag teams.

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My biggest problem with Cena (and hell, 90% of the talent) is the lack of technical wrestling skills, and the ability to sell injury. I feel like ALL i see anymore in WWE is: irish whips, clotheslines, bodyslams, and finishers. I mean, I know Hogan wasn't a very good wrestler, but at least he could captivate the audience when he hulked out!

What happened to escaping an arm bar with that spinny-flippy thing that Bret/Owen Hart used to do? What happened to german suplexes? I feel like the quality of in-ring talent is severely lacking. This is something I always thought WCW was superior with...

90% is a high number, but I see what you are saying. One problem about the technical wrestling is that it isn't flashy or whatever. People say Cena can't wrestle, but when he had to bring it versus CM Punk, and The Rock he did. But the WWE doesn't care about that technical stuff. I wish they would bring comebody like Kurt Angle back. I would love to see him go against Punk or Bryan.

The WWE has been teasing this Revolution thing for the last month or two, well they say it is happening Monday night. Being WWE, you know it is going to probably be a let down...

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Who's in charge of doing the storylines now? I just don't mean the shoots either, I'm talking about the storyline within the wrestling matches. It's all bland and boring.

I think like a lot of people that the attitude era was the greatest. It seems like when the Rock left, it was downhill from there. They didn't have anyone to fill the void. When they did, like maybe Jericho, it got botched. I just don't see Cena as a headliner, never did. There was just always something missing there. He doesn't have the "it" factor. He should have been a tag teamer with someone that has mic skills so they could have gotten the team over. They have something with CM Punk and it's being wasted.

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Amongst a lot, I think WWE also needs to rework their commentating.

bobby-the-brain-heenan.jpg

The Brain was incredible...

They need to make the King a heel again. Michael Cole is so.........magoo.

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Who's in charge of doing the storylines now? I just don't mean the shoots either, I'm talking about the storyline within the wrestling matches. It's all bland and boring.

Stephanie and her comedy writers.

I think like a lot of people that the attitude era was the greatest.

The attitude era had a lot of talent. But all the problems they currently have stemmed from that.

Here is the #1 problem in the WWE right now: Everything is driven by the writers. They write the promos. They script the matches. The wrestlers are just trained seals right now.

Before Russo, that was not the case. No one ever handed Hogan or Flair or Piper or Savage a script. No one ever told them how a match was to go. You were told "Talk about X" and you talked about X. You were told "The match is 20 minutes long. The finish is a DQ when Orton hits Hogan with the cast." And you had the match.

I also think Lawler needs to retire. He checked out mentally a decade ago. I'm not even sure he knows who the heels and faces are half the time. I know he doesn't watch Smackdown which makes him hopeless on PPVs. I wish they would open a school in Memphis called "Jerry Lawler's How To Throw a Worked Punch Camp." Pay him $100 grand a year to teach dudes how to throw punches. That would be the greatest contribution he could make right now.

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That's a fair argument, and you're probably right.

My biggest problem with Cena (and hell, 90% of the talent) is the lack of technical wrestling skills, and the ability to sell injury. I feel like ALL i see anymore in WWE is: irish whips, clotheslines, bodyslams, and finishers. I mean, I know Hogan wasn't a very good wrestler, but at least he could captivate the audience when he hulked out!

What happened to escaping an arm bar with that spinny-flippy thing that Bret/Owen Hart used to do? What happened to german suplexes? I feel like the quality of in-ring talent is severely lacking. This is something I always thought WCW was superior with...

They stopped the German suplexes cause it led to too many neck injuries. Angle especially destroyed his neck doing all those German suplexes.......

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http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/24/chris-jericho-wwe-suspended-desecrating-brazilian-flag/

WWE Star Chris Jericho Suspended for Denigrating Brazilian Flag

A WWE event in Brazil came to a screeching halt Thursday evening ... when local law enforcement stopped a live match and threatened to arrest Chris Jericho for desecrating the Brazilian flag.

It all went down during a match between Jericho and C.M. Punk -- who was proudly waving the flag in the ring. Jericho took the flag away, crumpled it up and kicked the flag out of the ring ... and that's when police stepped in and put a stop to the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjK98AEK6Go&feature=player_embedded

We're told Jericho was informed that desecrating the national flag is a crime in Brazil ... punishable by incarceration.

Cops gave Jericho an option -- apologize to the arena ... or go to jail. Chris chose the former ... grabbing the mic and telling the crowd he immediately regretted his actions. Cops allowed the event to continue.

Sources connected to the WWE tell TMZ ... the flag stunt was NOT planned or approved by WWE officials.

The WWE has just released an official statement saying, "Chris Jericho has been suspended indefinitely due to an irresponsible act of denigrating the Brazilian flag at a WWE event in Sao Paulo on May 24. The WWE has apologized to the citizens and the government of Brazil for this incident."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RikjeeDaMxI

The only wrong people in this party is definitely WWE. It was an honest mistake by Jericho, know way he should be suspended. Hope it isn't for too long...

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There's a lot of serious talk in this thread, so let's lighten it up a bit, shall we? All hail the camel clutch!

Qc.jpg

Edited by Forehead

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