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The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

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Wrestlemania was awesome as an attendee. The Daniel Bryan YES! chants started slow and early in the parking lot....had no idea what it would gradually turn into in the next 30 hours... And also I think HHH is dead...

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Just stopping in to say that I watched the WM 28 today (a day late yes), and it was great! The truth about it though is to me the best matches were still by the same guys that have been doing it for years (Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Sean Michaels, Orton).

WM really won me over and I think I'm gonna give WWE another shot, but I would be completely sold if they would get rid of Cena's character. I understand the whole role model thing, and that's dandy, but it's tired and it's gotta go. I just wish wrestling was edgy again.

Tonight confirmed for me that Cena is going full heel. They are going to play it like the WWE universe turned their back on him or something like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etPpFzV43o0

Edited by spjunkies

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I'm so excited to be heading home so I can watch Raw! I'm stuck at work until 2. Ahh... thank you DVR!

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Tonight confirmed for me that Cena is going full heel. They are going to play it like the WWE universe turned their back on him or something like that.

It was this time last year when they announced the Rock Cena main event in Miami, and I told myself that I was going to buy the event. I figured it would go one of two ways.

The Rock would lose to Cena in Miami (and I would never eeeeeever watch another WWE episode A-gain!)

OR (and what I hoped for and thought would most likely happen)

The Rock would win in his hometown and the Cena scenario you just described would play out. This is making me want to tune in next week. The WWE needs a Cena heel turn, the main attraction of the last few years has been stale for a while.

I would love to see the belt around the Rock's waist again as well, so the news from tonight is good to hear.

Anybody else think they should go back to the heavyweight, intercontinental, european, tag title format? I feel like there are too many belts, too many champions, and having a belt means so much less. The WM match between Daniel Bryan and Sheamus was a perfect example. A WM heavyweight title match that lasted less time than their entrances? Come on.

I could also go for some lucha libre, frankensteiner, hurricanrana business.

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---------- Post added April-3rd-2012 at 02:54 AM ----------

This is making me want to tune in next week. The WWE needs a Cena heel turn, the main attraction of the last few years has been stale for a while.

I would love to see the belt around the Rock's waist again as well, so the news from tonight is good to hear.

Anybody else think they should go back to the heavyweight, intercontinental, european, tag title format? I feel like there are too many belts, too many champions, and having a belt means so much less. The WM match between Daniel Bryan and Sheamus was a perfect example. A WM heavyweight title match that lasted less time than their entrances? Come on.

I could also go for some lucha libre, frankensteiner, hurricanrana business.

This man speaks the truth.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll

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RAW is coming to DC next week. Does anyone think Lesnar will be there?

DC crowd last time I went only did a big pop for Alex Riley and overall was the same crowd as anywhere during the Capital Punishment ppv last year.

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I am worried about Raw in DC next week. If you check out this graphic. DC is John Cena little jimmy territory. There is no way we can keep up with that hot Miami crowd.

Cena-Graphic-Blog1.jpg

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I would go but I got classes. :(

Let me go back to Wrestlemainia

Out of a 10, I give it a solid 8. Every match was entertaining for me, well maybe except for the Divas match, but whatever :whoknows:

The Daniel Bryan Sheamus match was nice. It caught me off-guard and it was hilarious. They have been setting it up for the last couple of weeks when he and his girl (AJ) would kiss before every match. I would have never thought his opponent would capitalize on that.

Kane and Randy Orton were solid, Big Show and Rhodes was decent. But obviously the best three matches where HHH/Undertaker, Y2J/Punk, Cena/Rock.

I say that the Undertaker versus HHH match was the most entertaining of the night. HBK played the ref role perfect. However, I as far as pure wrestleing, CM Punk and Y2J had a classic match imo. CM Punk had to when with the the Anaconda Vise Grip. The Rock and Cena match was nice as well. Say what you want about John Cena, the bamma is entertaining. After he hit one the FU to Rock after The Rock jumped off the ropes, he almost got the 1-2-3. I love his response to the ref after the close call: "I know it's Wrestlemainia. I know we are in Miami... but man" :ols: Also, I love his nonchalantness when attempting to hit The Peoples Elbow.

Now to RAW, that crowd was amazing last night, my only beef with them was the "We want Lesnar" chants. But it still didn't ruin the moment. I never thought that Cena would turn heel, but they keep bringing in these legends and having him get beat up, I could see Cena saying **** it and start dogging the fans. Either way, the WWE is starting to get a little creative, but they still have some work to do.

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lol, so does the AA become the FU again?

I don't see a full Cena heel turn...it would be awesome, but i don't see it. I see them teasing it, and having people wonder if he's going to snap. They keep using these guys like Kane, Rock, now Brock, from what i've been hearing possibly even Batista down the line to "come back" and stomp all over what John Cena has been the face of for years now. i honestly think they're gonna have him get so beaten down buy these guys verbally, physically, and mentally that they're going to put him in the role where everyone starts feeling sorry for him. Without ever really turning heel, he'll probably gain his full on "face of the company" charm again in time for a huge match at Summer Slam.

Machine Gun Kelly had some interesting comments at Wrestlemania right before Cena came out, about Cena being the "underdog" in the match. I think they're putting Cena against all these guys he could potentially be an "underdog" against because he hasn't been for so long. Kane started trying to break him down by attempting to get Cena to "embrace the hate". Next, a year long feud culminates in a devastating loss at Wrestlemania at the hands of the Rock....so what's in store next with Brock Lesnar? His size and stature, along with the fact that he's been gone for what, 8 years or so, casts John Cena in the roll of the underdog yet again.

Basically, instead of making him a "heel" and destroying a huge portion of their sales...they're going to tease a heel turn and actually turn the face of the company into an "underdog", until he "gets his mojo" back, and begins getting some fans back on his side. I could see it playing out MORE like that than a full on heel turn....simply because it's the WWE and John Cena.

Edited by Drop

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Tonight confirmed for me that Cena is going full heel. They are going to play it like the WWE universe turned their back on him or something like that.

Wow. That actually made me smile. Been awhile since the WWE has been able to do that. I might have to start watching again

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Last night just proved how weak a top guy Cena really is.

Seriously, could you imagine Hogan or Savage or Flair or Austin or the Rock letting an arena completely overpower their promo like that? I'm surpised the force of Lesnar's charisma didn't push Cena into the fourth row when he showed up.

Here is the difference between pro wrestling as an "art" and pro wrestling as a "performance." The most awesome part of that ending was the way Brock just casually kicked that stupid green hat out of the ring at the end. I'm sure that was not "on the script" but that's the kind of thing that takes a moment to the next level.

I end with a question. I have been watching pro wrestling since 1980. I have never seen the fans boo a wrestler NOT making a heel turn before. Has anyone ever seen anything like that before?

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I am worried about Raw in DC next week. If you check out this graphic. DC is John Cena little jimmy territory. There is no way we can keep up with that hot Miami crowd.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/aftermath/files/2012/01/Cena-Graphic-Blog1.jpg

Noooo

Yeah there's no way DC will be half as rockin' as in Miami. Most of the people in that building were people who traveled to Miami and were probably some hardcore wrestling fans. I remember the crowd in Capital Punishment PPV last year and it was meh. A very standard crowd and only get really loud when Alex Riley was introduced as the hometown boy.

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There is a difference between heels getting cheers and faces getting boos and what Cena is doing right now. This is unprecedented.

The Rock basically started out with X-Pac heat - except he was getting it as a face. The fans booed him because they disliked him as a performer. So, he turned heel and more or less got real X-Pac heat for a while. Until he became the Rock and was eventually forced into a face turn because he was just that awesome.

I don't know if there is a name for a heel being so awesome that they become a face by default, but it could probably be called "Road Warrior Heat." Rock and Austin had that.

I've never seen anything like this Cena thing. I don't even think the boos he is getting are directed at him. I think they are directed at the McMahons who insist on pushing this guy down everyone's throats. I'm not even sure a heel turn would be good for Cena, because I'm not sure he can pull off a Bash at the Beach type promo like Hogan could. Nor do I think he knows how to work a heel match like Hogan could. His boos are more about disgust and boredom.

The genius of prime Hogan was more or less than he wrestled as a heel even when he was a face. All he had to do when he turned was run during the heat segment instead of taking the beating.

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There is a difference between heels getting cheers and faces getting boos and what Cena is doing right now. This is unprecedented.

The Rock basically started out with X-Pac heat - except he was getting it as a face. The fans booed him because they disliked him as a performer. So' date=' he turned heel and more or less got real X-Pac heat for a while. Until he became the Rock and was eventually forced into a face turn because he was just that awesome.

I don't know if there is a name for a heel being so awesome that they become a face by default, but it could probably be called "Road Warrior Heat." Rock and Austin had that.

I've never seen anything like this Cena thing. I don't even think the boos he is getting are directed at him. I think they are directed at the McMahons who insist on pushing this guy down everyone's throats. I'm not even sure a heel turn would be good for Cena, because I'm not sure he can pull off a Bash at the Beach type promo like Hogan could. Nor do I think he knows how to work a heel match like Hogan could. His boos are more about disgust and boredom.

The genius of prime Hogan was more or less than he wrestled as a heel even when he was a face. All he had to do when he turned was run during the heat segment instead of taking the beating.[/quote']

I chose the Rock because he's the closet example of someone I can think of that was force fed down the fans throat, but I agree that they are on two different levels.

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I chose the Rock because he's the closet example of someone I can think of that was force fed down the fans throat, but I agree that they are on two different levels.

But he was forced down our throats for - what - six months? That was also another era when Vince still believed in the smiling babyface.

The difference between then and now is obvious. Vince used to - at least on some level - give the people what they wanted. They hated Rocky so he sent him to the NOD to get repackaged. He had no idea what to do with Steve Austin so he said "Try to get over on your own" and when he did, he strapped a rocket to his ass.

Last night was fun, because it was basically the fans versus Vince. Vince wants a company where Cena is the top face, because he is good on radio interviews. He wants Del Rio at the top of the card, because he is such a draw in Mexico. Seamus is going to be at the top of the card, because HHH likes Seamus.

The fans want to boo Cena out of the building. Vince sends him out there to say basically "I will always be the hero." The fans want Daniel Bryan. So, he has him beat in 18 seconds.

The greatest example right now is Zack Ryder. Ryder had the gall to get himself over with no one's help. And Vince has buried him like no one I've ever seen. Ryder has spent the last six months losing every match, getting crippled, and having his chick play him for a fool. Even if there is a push somewhere on the horizon for him, the fans are now programmed to see him as a complete and total loser.

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LKB, we have already seen a heel Cena before, and that is when he got "famous". He can get some incredible heat as a heel. It might not approach heat like HHH, Edge, Road Warrior, etc. but he can definitely get some heat.

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I see Cena being on a road towards an inevitable heel role. Hell, I think he already is a heel, just not in the traditional sense. He gets ravaged by Kane, beaten by the Rock, and now ravaged by Lesnar. I think the WWE is listening to the fans, and Cena has become the punching bag for anybody we actually want to see. Want to bring someone back with a bang? Let them beat up John Cena. :ols:

Again, he's not a traditional heel, he's not a vicious monster or a clumsy wuss. He's a sort of goody two shoes. I think all he needs to do is keep pushing that on us, and we'll continue to hate him more each week. He should start preaching his morals even more, to where even kids can sense that he's being condescending. Make him hyper sensitive to other wrestlers who he doesn't think match his values.

Perhaps he creates a faction to "cleanse the WWE of its bad PG-13 behavior". The NWO with manners.

It's just really difficult for any of us to believe that they'll actually commit to making Cena full-heel. It's still up in the air, but signs are pointing to a revolution. The scary part is if they actually make Cena start exacting revenge on everybody as a good guy, I might not watch WWE for another few years. I think there's a 90% chance Cena is being made a heel, and 10% chance that they'll keep on pushing him as a good guy.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll

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Perhaps he creates a faction to "cleanse the WWE of its bad PG-13 behavior". The NWO with manners.

:hysterical: a more extreme version of Right to Censor?! Now that would piss me off.

I know Cena could make a legitimate heel turn, and a lot of people don't think so because he's been such an annoying babyface for so long. I'm sure there is a lot of pent up anger towards the fans because of the shellacking he's been taking. No grown *** man with any kind of ego takes the **** he does night in and night out, and just shrugs it off. Give the man 30 seconds unscripted to say whatever he wants to the fans and roll from there...

Not to mention I'd like to see the heel turn for the guy's sanity. I've always disliked John Cena the character, never the person, and I think for his career to progress I'd like to see him turn into a nasty heel the likes of which the WWE hasn't seen for a long time.

Edited by FSUSkins24

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Not to mention I'd like to see the heel turn for the guy's sanity. I've always disliked John Cena the character, never the person, and I think for his career to progress I'd like to see him turn into a nasty heel the likes of which the WWE hasn't seen for a long time.

Here's the problem: If he turns heel, who is the babyface?

I guess they can do it now with Brock but Brock has never exactly fit the babyface profile. (And to be honest, I want to see Brock in the ring before I get too excited about him. He looked really really out of shape last night). And it's really hard to imagine Randy Orton fighting for the honor of the fans. I guess Punk could do it, but they seem to have created a ceiling for Punk. The Rock obviously could do it, but that's maybe four matches a year if they are lucky.

I think what people hate most about Cena is how his presence has kept anyone else from reaching his level.

Say what you will about the Hogan Era, but at least three and maybe four guys reached his level during his run. If they wanted to, they could have turned Hogan heel and had him run against a face Savage, Piper, Warrior, or maybe even an Orndorff and it would have worked. But if you watch those old tapes, they never had to. There was never a debate about who the most over babyface in the company was until the 90s. (I recently re-watched all the buildup to Wrestlemania III recently. My God, Hogan was such a villain during that and he still got the face pop to end all face pops in the Silverdome).

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother

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Here's the problem: If he turns heel' date=' who is the babyface?[/quote']

Anyone and everyone in the WWE. The turn would have to be written well, because everyone has been expecting it for so long (or else it would just be another ho-hum moment in Cena's career). Wrestling storylines can often get very predictable so a real curve ball would have to be thrown. What about a story line where Cena calls out Vince and tells him he's tired of doing the PG shtick. We as the fans get to see a conversation (in kayfabe) that has probably happened hundreds of times between Vince and Cena backstage. Cena starts to push the envelope all the while running roughshot on the WWE, Vince isn't okay with it. Vince then proceeds to oppress Cena as the "boss" in ways only he knows how to. Cena gets worse and worse until he's no longer even distinguishable as the annoying babyface.

I feel like in wrestling there doesn't always have to be face/heel, because the fans are going to cheer for whoever they want to anyway. I for one would be so happy that babyface Cena was gone that I would probably start cheering for him and hoping he'd be an even badder dude every week. A "heel" turn would probably turn him into a crowd favorite.

On a different note. I think Otunga should start getting a push and see how people react to him. Wrestlemania was the first time I've watched in a while so I don't know everything going on in his story, but the guy definitely has the look. I could see him with a heavyweight belt. Not a sudden shot through the rankings, say maybe domination in the secondary belt level first.

Edited by FSUSkins24

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