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The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

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It was sad seeing Bret Hart get absolutely no reaction from the crowd and the non talented Cena get a great ovation. I know Cena is the man in the WWE now, but Bret is one of the greatest of all time and he deserved a better ovation.

Why would the average 15-year-old WWE fan have any clue who Bret Hart is? He hasn't been relevant since 1997.

It would be like me watching WWF in 1986 and getting excited over - I dunno - Bobo Brazil.

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LU-hcikwdCo


:drool:

Somewhat of a butterface, but between the flexibility and the screaming, I would DEFINITELY :hump:

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Why would the average 15-year-old WWE fan have any clue who Bret Hart is? He hasn't been relevant since 1997.

It would be like me watching WWF in 1986 and getting excited over - I dunno - Bobo Brazil.

There were just as many grownups there as there were 15 year olds. I gaurantee that Hogan or Flair would have got a much bigger pop than what Bret recieved the other night.

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There were just as many grownups there as there were 15 year olds. I gaurantee that Hogan or Flair would have got a much bigger pop than what Bret recieved the other night.

Bret was never all that popular in the US. He was champion when US business was way down because he was a huge draw in Canada and overseas. His window as one of the top guys was surprisingly small (1992ish to 1997ish). If you are a guy like me in his mid 30s, it would have been very easy to miss Bret Hart's prime completely. I pretty stopped watching wrestling in high school early 90s and picked it up again late in college (1996). I know Hart was the champ, but it didn't really register with me.

Hogan in his prime was a legitimate world-wide celebrity. People who never watched a wrestling match in their lives knew who he was. He also was #1 draw for about 8 years and one of the top five top draws for about 15 or 16 years. Also, when I stopped watching wrestling he was huge, and when I came back to wrestling he was huge.

Flair is strange. He's nowhere near in Hogan or Austin or Rock's league in terms of worldwide popularity. He was really only ever a major draw in the Southeast. As NWA champion, his job was to put on a good match with the local babyface. It was the babyface's job to sell the tickets. In other words, he may have sold Texas Stadium or Reunion Arena when he faced the Von Erichs, but it was the Von Erichs job to get the people in the arena.

Yet, he is in the DNA of pro wrestling to a degree that no other wrestler is. If you hit someone with a chop, the crowd will say "Whoo!" even if they don't know why. It's probably because he has been on national cable tv pretty much once a week since 1982. He's like Ron Popeil. He also was on both sides of the early to mid 90s wrestling downturn.

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother

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Bret was never all that popular in the US. He was champion when US business was way down because he was a huge draw in Canada and overseas. His window as one of the top guys was surprisingly small (1992ish to 1997ish). If you are a guy like me in his mid 30s' date=' it would have been very easy to miss Bret Hart's prime completely. I pretty stopped watching wrestling in high school early 90s and picked it up again late in college (1996). I know Hart was the champ, but it didn't really register with me.

Hogan in his prime was a legitimate world-wide celebrity. People who never watched a wrestling match in their lives knew who he was. He also was #1 draw for about 8 years and one of the top five top draws for about 15 or 16 years. Also, when I stopped watching wrestling he was huge, and when I came back to wrestling he was huge.

Flair is strange. He's nowhere near in Hogan or Austin or Rock's league in terms of worldwide popularity. He was really only ever a major draw in the Southeast. As NWA champion, his job was to put on a good match with the local babyface. It was the babyface's job to sell the tickets. In other words, he may have sold Texas Stadium or Reunion Arena when he faced the Von Erichs, but it was the Von Erichs job to get the people in the arena.

Yet, he is in the DNA of pro wrestling to a degree that no other wrestler is. If you hit someone with a chop, the crowd will say "Whoo!" even if they don't know why. It's probably because he has been on national cable tv pretty much once a week since 1982. He's like Ron Popeil. He also was on both sides of the early to mid 90s wrestling downturn.[/quote']

I agree with about everything you said. You're right, Flair is strange. He's very famous, I mean, when he dies, ESPN WILL cover it. But he didn't have the WWE marketing machine behind him in his prime like Hogan, Austin or the Rock had. As for how good a draw he was, that's debatable. Where as the WWE was always "superstar" driven, I believe the NWA sold it's product on good, hard hitting pro wrestling and it wasn't soley up to Flair to sell out arena's. Just as many people probably came to see Dusty, The Road Warriors and the Rock and Roll Express as there were to see Flair. No joke, between 85-87, no one in the NWA was as popular as The Rock and Roll express.

Right now, Flair is probably more famous for his WWE days, but us old timers know Flair will always be an NWA guy.

Edited by blue collar

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I agree with about everything you said. You're right, Flair is strange. He's very famous, I mean, when he dies, ESPN WILL cover it. But he didn't have the WWE marketing machine behind him in his prime like Hogan, Austin or the Rock had. Right now, Flair is probably more known for his WWE days, but us old timers know, Flair will always be an NWA guy.
WCW too (didn't NWA become WCW?).

EDIT: Oh, and Linda McMahon won the Repub primary for Conn. Senate.

Edited by ACW

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That is a long, complicated story. It seems like NWA became WCW, but not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_World_Championship_Wrestling

The NWA basically died - even though it never really went away. And the remnants of the old Charlotte/Crockett territory were bought by Ted Turner...who paid a fee for the NWA name for a years and then realized that he was wasting his money for no apparent benefit.

The big problem the NWA had was that Vince McMahon was one guy making every decision while the NWA was 10 or 15 guys who couldn't agree on ****. So, McMahon could divide and conquer. It also helped that all the old promoters were stuck in the 60s.

I've always thought that it Fritz Von Erich and Bill Watts had merged early on and gone national with ESPN behind them, they could have at least been a long-term viable #2 - if not over-taken the WWF. The Von Erich boys could have easily been as popular nationally as Hogan for the simple fact that they would have drawn young girls to the arenas.

Have you ever watched old WCCW shows? No wrestler has ever gotten the response that the Von Erichs got. Good 16 year old Baptist girls were grabbing them and trying to make out with them on their way to the ring.

On top of that - aside from Mike - they could all work.

Granted, by 1997, everyone in that locker room was dead or dying from drugs...but they had a chance damn it.

Crockett could have survived too if he had more business sense. For some reason, he felt obligated to buy all the dying territories. All he had to do was let them rot and then buy the talent he wanted for 10 cents on the dollar. Instead, he ended up with all of the UWF and CWA and Florida debt to go along with his own.

If Crockett had just bought the talent he needed, kept his base in Charlotte and run tours in a territory marked by Baltimore, Miami, New Orleans, and St. Louis, he might still be in business.

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No one even bothered to mention TNA tonight. If you don't know, iMPACT was off the chain. The Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money best 2/3 was the best tag match in ages. Definitely a match of the year candidate. But the beatdown the TNA wrestlers laid on ECW was classic.

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RIP Lance McNaught, AKA Lance/Garrison Cade.

Lance McNaught, better known as Lance Cade, died this morning of what is believed to have been heart failure after two family members believed there was something wrong with him over the past week.

He was 29.

McNaught's wife Tanya noticed over the past week that he didn't look healthy and seemed to be having trouble breathing and called an ambulance to rush him to the hospital on Tuesday night. He passed out at one point but was revived in the hospital. Lance asked to be released on Wednesday, and after he got home, left and didn't come back.

On Thursday, his father, Harley McNaught, said Lance showed up at his work and he was not looking good. Harley brought him to his father's home in San Antonio and was discovered having passed away late last night. He was scheduled to leave today for a two-week tour of All Japan Pro Wrestling.

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/17123/

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Daniel Bryan was the 7th member of team wwe. It was a great surprise and his time in the ring was exciting as hell with some sick moves. Earlier in the night Miz cut a great in ring promo. Other than that SummerSlam sucked hard. Of course it ended with Cena by himself overcoming the odds to beat Nexus alone.

Edited by BigMike21

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[rant]

I am bored with the WWE. They have no shock value anymore. I just watched Summer Slam and the best thing they can come up with is the return of the Undertaker and Daniel Bryan? Tonight was the perfect night to let John Cena turn heel, but I see that their bottom line is more important than good entertainment. The whole "G" rating thing they have going on right now is good for kids and whatnot, but can they at least try to put some decent story lines in their programs.

That's why I like TNA more than the WWE. They just don't give a flying flute about what people think about them. They put on this best show for wrestling fans and don't care what other people think. They might not have the cashflow that WWE has, but they sure are making me happier.

I tried defending the WWE, but after tonight's PPV, :no:

[/rant]

Edited by MLSKINS

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Daniel Bryan was the 7th member of team wwe. It was a great surprise and his time in the ring was exciting as hell with some sick moves. Earlier in the night Miz cut a great in ring promo. Other than that SummerSlam sucked hard. Of course it ended with Cena by himself overcoming the odds to beat Nexus alone.

Hell yeah, i almost ripped up my front row tix for raw after cena made barrett tap. Stuff like that makes wrestling look SOOO fake and unbelievable. But BRYAN DANIELSON (not daniel bryan) was awesome.

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SuperCena defies the odds once again...give me a friggin' break! They could drop the atomic bomb on him and he'd still end up winning a 10-on-1 handicapped match.

I stand by what I said 4 months ago: wrestling died for me when HBK retired at WM26.

I'm going to start watching TNA, ROH, CZW, and PWG more often. I'm so glad I read results online and did not pay for that crap.

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i thought summerslam was okay not bad

bryan coming back was good news and sets up a feud with him becoming us champ over the miz

as for super cena , some of you relaize this guy is over with kids under 15.. way over so i was not surprised by the ending at all. I am curious what is going to happen on raw tonight

will nexus continue with it major push or did uncle vince make the decision yesterday and push the american dragon???

As for tna are they not relieving ecw/wcw memories lmao red face paint sting hanging out with kevin nash nwo wolfpac..smh and tommy dreamer has started another revolution that had a one night stand in 2005 how can u watch tna outside of dinero , the guns, beer money blah

Edited by That Redskins Fan

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SuperCena defies the odds once again...give me a friggin' break! They could drop the atomic bomb on him and he'd still end up winning a 10-on-1 handicapped match.

I stand by what I said 4 months ago: wrestling died for me when HBK retired at WM26.

I'm going to start watching TNA, ROH, CZW, and PWG more often. I'm so glad I read results online and did not pay for that crap.

a)They are working hard to put Cena over as the Hoganesque face of the company and it really grates on the viewer. That's why you have sooo many "Cena Sucks" chants during the shows. In my opinion he just doesn't have the same type of charisma to pull if off but their new target demographic eats it up nonetheless. I do respect that he is using his power in the company for good and is willing to put over some of the underexposed workers (Evan Bourne).

B) It's a shame that wrestling died for you when HBK left because there are many great wrestlers out there now. Quite a few of those guys learned from your beloved HBK.

c) Everything on that list looks good to me except for CZW.

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SuperCena defies the odds once again...give me a friggin' break! They could drop the atomic bomb on him and he'd still end up winning a 10-on-1 handicapped match.

I stand by what I said 4 months ago: wrestling died for me when HBK retired at WM26.

I'm going to start watching TNA, ROH, CZW, and PWG more often. I'm so glad I read results online and did not pay for that crap.

Wrestling, as far as WWE goes, has sucked since 2005 IMO. WrestleMania XX was the last truly great WrestleMania. It was the last one that wasn't main evented by Cena. He fought the Big Show for the US Title in the opening match, and won. Hell, I even cheered for him back then. At least he had a gimmick.

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Watched SummerSlam last night with some friends. Didn't really feel like much happened.

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I knew he'd be back. What I'm still not sure of is if the firing was a work or if it was real.

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I knew he'd be back. What I'm still not sure of is if the firing was a work or if it was real.

I think it had to be real since they let him go out and make money booking and working independent shows. However, I think everyone, including Danielson, knew he would be back in a couple months as a couple of factors point that way. First off, all wrestlers that are let go normally receive calls from Laurinitus. It was reported that Vince McMahon actually personally called Danielson to let him know. Second off, they redid his no-compete clause so that he could book gigs as long as they weren't shown on live television. That's how I was able to see him at that PWG show in California.

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