In Italy, high resistance to Islam and it's Mosques

[Mickalino]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12927212/

Mosque plans bring controversy to Tuscan town

Mayor backs Islamic center's construction, but residents are 'very afraid'

"A need for space"

Muslims gather for Friday prayers at the Islamic Cultural Center, a converted storefront, in Colle di Val d’Elsa. The Tuscan town is embroiled in a controversy over the planned construction of a new mosque and Islamic center.

COLLE DI VAL D'ELSA, Italy — For hundreds of years, Colle di Val d’Elsa has been renowned for its crystal and as the birthplace of medieval sculptor and architect Arnolfo di Cambio. But, the picturesque Tuscan town, situated on the road between Florence and Siena, may soon be better known as home to one of Italy’s largest mosques. That is, if it’s ever built.

The controversy over the planned construction has been brewing for seven years and has split the local community. The outcome here could set the tone for Muslim endeavors and integration across Italy.

“Those of us who live here are really afraid,” said Lucia Prizzi, who lives in an apartment beside the field and vineyards where the mosque will be built.

“It’s not right that the local government gave them this land without consulting us first,” she said.

Her sentiments are echoed on graffiti along a nearby wall: “No Mosque,” “Christian Hill,” and “Thanks to the communists the Arabs are in our house!!!” Another calls on the mayor, who supports the mosque’s construction, to build it at his house.

From emigrant to immigrant nation

Once a nation of emigrants, Italy has only had a sizeable immigrant population for around 15 years, and is still adjusting to the changing circumstances. Yet, in many areas someone from an adjacent town can still be seen as a “foreigner” — as they have a different dialect, cuisine, and patron saint — let alone someone from across the Mediterranean Sea who practices a different religion.

With one of the European Union’s highest unemployment rates, wages at a near standstill and prices shooting higher along with the euro currency, many Italians see little room for immigrant labor. And since the rise of international terrorism, the growing Muslim community — now at around 1 million, or 2 percent of the population — is being eyed with even greater scrutiny than other immigrant groups.

After the July 2005 London transport bombings, dozens of suspected Islamic extremists were deported from the country. And in April, former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi’s government said it thwarted planned attacks by such extremists on Milan’s subway system and on Bologna’s cathedral, which houses a painting that depicts the Muslim prophet Mohammed in a Dantesque hell.

Feeding on the country’s fears, the political party La Lega Nord — or the Northern League — switched its platform of separation from southern Italy to kicking out all foreigners, but most notably Muslims.

Meantime, although there are more than 500 Islamic centers of varying sizes across the country, Italy does not recognize Islam as an official religion.

This charged atmosphere has affected life in Colle di Val d’Elsa, where the Muslim community and the mayor have been working to build a new, larger, Islamic center to accommodate the town’s growing number of Muslims and to promote cultural exchange.

‘A place to exchange cultural knowledge’

The historic center of Colle di Val d’Elsa — which means “hills of the valley of the river Elsa” — rests on a verdant hill, looking over the businesses hub where medieval facades stand alongside modern buildings.

On a recent Friday, the fruit and vegetable market was winding down in Piazza Scala, in the center of the lower town, as the muezzin’s call to prayer rang out from the current Islamic center, a former bakery with an entrance along the piazza.

As the imam lead the prayer, the small room filled with up to a hundred people. Men stood hip-to-hip, wall-to-wall, bumping each other as they bent over in prayer. On the other side of a cloth partition, women sat cross-legged, knee-to-knee, with children clambering on top of them and vying for room.

“As you can see, we need a bigger space,” said Imam Feras Jebareen, adding that “on religious holidays we are forced to rent another hall that can hold more people.”

“The idea came about to create a center that would not only be an area to pray but a place to exchange cultural knowledge and assist integration,” he said.

Plans were put forth, and in 1999 the town’s previous mayor, Marco Spinelli, approved construction of an Islamic cultural center in the Badia quarter’s San Lazzaro park on the edge of town.

The center would comprise a mosque with a dome and minaret, made from local crystal and covering 600 square yards, as well as a library, open air-courtyard, playground with basketball hoops, and parking lot. Pedestrian and cycling paths would link the center with the town’s sporting grounds.

“It’s not really a mosque, but an open structure for cultural activities as well as Islamic prayer,” said the current mayor, Paolo Brogioni.

Construction costs would be paid for by a donation from Monte dei Paschi bank’s cultural fund and the Muslim community, with the local council paying a small fee to the architect who drew up the plans.

Jebareen, the imam, said each working Muslim in Colle di Val d’Elsa was asked to give 500 euros, and that no outside country had sponsored it.

“We want it to be an Italian mosque, for Italian Muslims, that represents an Italian Islam,” he said.

Both mayor and imam said that the Muslim community was integrating well and that there had never been problems with the current Islamic center.

Opposition to the new construction therefore took both parties by surprise.

‘Anti-democratic’

“Clown!” and “Shame on you!” the people shouted as the mayor left the legislative palace on a recent evening. The town council had just voted down the Badia residents’ petition to hold a referendum on the mosque’s construction and a few dozen protesters waited around with an “anti-democratic” banner and rice to pelt at the mayor.

Several groups have popped up in opposition to the mosque, including “Insieme per Colle” – or “Together for the town of Colle” – which promoted the referendum, and the Civic List political party.

While the Northern League opposes all mosques, saying they are political institutions where “terrorists work to create a state within the state,” these groups say they only oppose construction on the specified plot of land in the Badia quarter.

“We are not against integration or the Islamic community,” said Letizia Franceschetti, president of the committee that proposed the referendum on the center’s construction, stating that Badia residents don’t want to lose the grassy parkland, vineyards, and views of Chianti’s hills in the distance.

However, Brogioni, the mayor, accused the group of “hiding behind the arguments of the park and environment.”

“What I don’t understand,” said Brogioni, “is that I would like to discuss the activity of the center, not the place where it will be constructed, because if the people of that area don’t like the activities of the center, then it won’t go over well in any other part of town.”

The mayor said that although the community was informed of the construction in 1999, there was no opposition to the plan until after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States. But, the protesters outside the legislative palace were quick to tell reporters that the “mosque bomb” was not dropped until a later date, and that their opposition was not related to a fear of Islam.

‘Really afraid’

Amidst the bitter counterclaims, anxiety over the unknown is apparent.

One woman spoke of seeing Muslim youths train for jihad on television, and a man said that the only reason a park was being built alongside the mosque was to accommodate all the Muslim children.

“Well, when you have multiple wives, what do you expect,” he said, asking that his name not be used with that comment.

Many feared that due to the size of the mosque, Muslims from across Tuscany would flock to Colle di Val d’Elsa for Friday services and camp out during Muslim holidays, making the area a no-go zone for them.

“Why put an Islamic Vatican here on our terrace?” asked Viviana Mastacchi. “Imagine how it’ll be during Ramadan, imagine all the confusion,” the 39-year-old waitress said.

Meantime, others feared that their apartments would depreciate in value, and there was confusion over who was funding the construction costs.

"Our houses won't be worth anything," said Mastacchi.

"There's an Italian saying," said Gabrielle Antonio, "If I don't have shoes for myself, how can I give you a pair?"

"If they ask the council for money and I don't even have a house, how can we give them money for a mosque?" the 60-year-old asked.

“I think that the people here are really afraid, whether their fears are right or wrong, either way it’s only human to be afraid if you’re on a bus or on a subway you’ll look around to see if there are any Muslims around you,” Franceschetti, the lawyer, said.

To combat such fears, imam Jebareen, a Palestinian physiotherapist who has lived in Italy for more than 10 years, has promoted a pact against terrorism as well as an annual interfaith forum, and has signed a contract with the local government, stating that the new Islamic center’s existence is contingent on the Muslim community not taking part directly, or indirectly in illegal activities involving the center.

Speaking of the contract, Franceshetti said: “The Muslim community is going to have to guarantee and verify that those who enter the Islamic center are good people, which is absurd because no city, not even New York or London could confront this problem. Even they found themselves helpless in the face of grave attacks.”

‘A big moment’

The mayor remained confident that non-Muslims would frequent the center and that both groups would benefit from learning about each other, but many were skeptical.

“I’m a Catholic, why would I go there?’ asked retiree Folto Massaini.

Muslim Sinam Sharki, 19, also questioned why non-Muslims would frequent the center when “it’s really a place for prayer.”

Sharki, a Moroccan who came to Italy when she was 13, said she had non-Muslim Italian friends at school but did not see them outside of class.

“It’s not that I don’t like them; they are just very different from us; they go to discos, they eat out at restaurants, and we don’t,” she said.

Brogioni insisted that it was this divide that made the center, and it’s location within the town, essential to integration.

“The error often made in cases like this is to isolate them, to have them not be seen and not want to be seen,” he said.

“In reality, to be seen, and to want to be seen, is a big moment.”

The Muslim community has won full permission to begin construction of the Islamic Cultural Center, but the opposition has also vowed to continue its legal battle against it.

As growing Muslims communities across Italy plan to construct larger and more elaborate Islamic centers, Colle di Val d’Elsa’s experiences may foreshadow the ups and downs of integration and religious conflict to come.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I saw this article and found it quite interesting. I think this situation could come to a head.

[Destino]

I hate to say it but my first reaction is - When they support the building of large Catholic centers in the Muslim world, created to promote cultural exchange, then let them build this one in Italy. It's bad I know, I recognize that it is a negative reaction that won't generate any positive result. I can't however deny that part of me is getting sick of hearing the call for cultural diversity from a religion that often promotes the opposite. It has to be a two way street.

[SkinsHokieFan]

European Muslims are an intruiging group

For the most part they remind me of illegal immigrants from our southern borders here, in terms of how for the most part they have failed to really integrate into European culture, mainly because of how close they are to the homeland

In America this problem really doesn't exist, because we have totally integrated into American culture. You probably in a day have a few Muslims serve you, the cab driver, the janitor in your office, your child's teacher, and your doctor

Why have American Muslims integrated better? Because laws in Europe make it very easy and cheap to immigrate, while Muslims have a tougher time coming to America in terms of costs, education and distance requirments

Someone should do a study on this

[Mickalino]

I hate to say it but my first reaction is - When they support the building of large Catholic centers in the Muslim world, created to promote cultural exchange, then let them build this one in Italy. It's bad I know, I recognize that it is a negative reaction that won't generate any positive result. I can't however deny that part of me is getting sick of hearing the call for cultural diversity from a religion that often promotes the opposite. It has to be a two way street.

I would agree, and dont see this as on offensive statement for which you should feel guilty about

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I would agree, and dont see this as on offensive statement for which you should feel guilty about

Agreed.

[Sarge]

I hate to say it but my first reaction is - When they support the building of large Catholic centers in the Muslim world, created to promote cultural exchange, then let them build this one in Italy. It's bad I know, I recognize that it is a negative reaction that won't generate any positive result. I can't however deny that part of me is getting sick of hearing the call for cultural diversity from a religion that often promotes the opposite. It has to be a two way street.

Bigot

[Prosperity]

I hate to say it but my first reaction is - When they support the building of large Catholic centers in the Muslim world, created to promote cultural exchange, then let them build this one in Italy. It's bad I know, I recognize that it is a negative reaction that won't generate any positive result. I can't however deny that part of me is getting sick of hearing the call for cultural diversity from a religion that often promotes the opposite. It has to be a two way street.

The time when latin countries like Mexico stop being racist and allow more immigrants is when we should do the same.

[Mickalino]

The time when latin countries like Mexico stop being racist and allow more immigrants is when we should do the same.

You mean, instead of kidnapping Americans in VW cabs, and not letting them go, until they've drained out their savings with their ATM cards ?

[Prosperity]

You mean, instead of kidnapping Americans in VW cabs, and not letting them go, until they've drained out their savings with their ATM cards ?

sorry man that went right over my head, are you saying that happens in Mexico? (as in its common place)

[Sarge]

The time when latin countries like Mexico stop being racist and allow more immigrants is when we should do the same.

That's what I've said, have Me-he-co open it's border with Guatamala all the way and see how that works FIRST

[Mickalino]

sorry man that went right over my head, are you saying that happens in Mexico? (as in its common place)

Yes, especially in Mexico city, according to my Mexican friends.

So, dont EVER get in a VW cab in Mexico.

And carry an extra Bank card in your pocket with only a few dollars in it, but keep your REAL bank card hidden in your butt crack

[Destino]

The time when latin countries like Mexico stop being racist and allow more immigrants is when we should do the same.

A fair reply, yet not exactly a powerful argument. Mexico seeks to prevent more unskilled workers from flooding into it's country because it already has too many. Far more then it's economy is able to employ, as it's own unemployment and poverty numbers will prove. Perhaps the strongest example of this however is the vast number of illegal immigrants flooding to the US.

This is a different situation then the current cultural and religious conflict taking place in the middle east, and other areas. A religion is promoting intolerence openly and consistently. Many Muslim states make the promotion of any other religion illegal and spread the idea that even friendship with nonMuslims is bad. Intolerence of this nature inspires an emotional reaction - one that I described in my first post and freely admitted as being a bad one.

[Prosperity]

A fair reply, yet not exactly a powerful argument. Mexico seeks to prevent more unskilled workers from flooding into it's country because it already has too many. Far more then it's economy is able to employ, as it's own unemployment and poverty numbers will prove. Perhaps the strongest example of this however is the vast number of illegal immigrants flooding to the US.

This is very debateable, why would immigrants move to Mexico unless there were jobs there? I think it is the same situation as Mexico except people in general are poorer thus populist/protectionist/racist ideas are just more common place and accepted.

This is a different situation then the current cultural and religious conflict taking place in the middle east, and other areas. A religion is promoting intolerence openly and consistently.

There is no point in going over which religions cause which amount of violence so I am not going to get into that. I do wonder how there ae so many Muslims in the US, such as SHF who do not condone, nor promote, nor committ any violence. If it was really the religion then the US would have suffered hundred of terrorist attacks from its Islamic community, and if not that much then at the very least more than we have right now.

Many Muslim states make the promotion of any other religion illegal and spread the idea that even friendship with nonMuslims is bad. Intolerence of this nature inspires an emotional reaction - one that I described in my first post and freely admitted as being a bad one.

The thrust of my argument is that you do not lower yourself to the level of others. I think you can make a very good argument that immigration in Europe ought to be curbed so the ones there already can assimilate, but the ones that are already there are muslim and you aren't going to change that easily, so denying them a mosque seems incredibly and overtly bigoted. Now, I know you said it was a bad initial reaction, I just like to point out that our bad initial reactons depend mostly on our background. We all have initial reactions that are ingrained in us thanks to our environment, but we have to use reason to stop the ones that are not useful or right. Which is why I would hope even after your initial reaction you would end up agreeing that even though many Muslim States are bigoted towards non Muslims does not mean Non Muslim States have to be bigoted towards Muslims, and thus Muslims in Italy ought to be able to build a house of worship like any other religion.

[gchwood]

The time when latin countries like Mexico stop being racist and allow more immigrants is when we should do the same.

Mexico charges you $75 just to leave their freaking country

[DC_Skins]

I hate to say it but my first reaction is - When they support the building of large Catholic centers in the Muslim world, created to promote cultural exchange, then let them build this one in Italy. It's bad I know, I recognize that it is a negative reaction that won't generate any positive result. I can't however deny that part of me is getting sick of hearing the call for cultural diversity from a religion that often promotes the opposite. It has to be a two way street.

I agree also :2cents:

[Sarge]

The time when latin countries like Mexico stop being racist and allow more immigrants is when we should do the same.

You mean brown people are bigoted against other brown people?

I thought, at least according to you, it was only carried out by whites against brown people

[Prosperity]

You mean brown people are bigoted against other brown people?

I thought, at least according to you, it was only carried out by whites against brown people

I don't know where you got that impression, I have never said anything that resembles that. But yes Sarge, I do hold you to a higher standard than the Saudis for example.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Nobody wants to discuss/challenege my assertion? :whoknows:

[Prosperity]

Nobody wants to discuss/challenege my assertion? :whoknows:

I think you are right for the most part.

[Sarge]

Nobody wants to discuss/challenege my assertion? :whoknows:

Aside to say you're correct?