Truant Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Left Tackles are talked about with such high esteem because they cover the QB's blindside. Jansen was out two years ago so last time was the only time he saw extensive time blocking for a lefty QB. With Mark as our QB last year, how the Jansen fair as the most important lineman on passing downs? (I don't have stats or particular events in mind but I feel that JJ did a nice job last year and I'm confident in his abilities, but I was wondering if I'm just being a homer or if someone can reassure me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Fence Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought he did very well, could have done a tiny bit better, but he is not paid like one of the top lineman in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Keep in mind that, despite the fact that Brunell is a lefty, the best pass rusher on most defenses is still on the right side (of the defense) and will be rushing against Chris Samuels most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought that at times both of our tackles had trouble dealing with speed rushers. Overall, both had good years but both also had games where they got pretty abused. Simeon Rice abused Samuels twice. Burgess gave Jansen fits. Jared Allen got sacks on both of them. I'm not sure if this was because they were consistenly left on a island or what but Samuels especially SHOULD be left on an island and expected to dominate (at least that's how he's paid. You want Walter Jones, Orlando Pace money you damn well better not need any help over there). Jansen, from a physical standpoint isn't as wel equipped to handle speed rushers and as such, you'd like to be able to count on Samuels to have his side on lock and give help to Jansen but that wasn't always the case last year. Overall, I thought Jansen had an excellent year. You can't discount the fact that he was playing with two broken thumbs, either. That has GOT to affect your pass protection. I'm really satisfied with the entire starting group we've got up there. My main worry for this unit, for this team, for our entire season is the health of Jansen and Samuels. I'm scared ****less of what our line will be like should one of them miss significant time. I think the health of those two is one of (probably THE in my mind) biggest concern heading into next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 pretty good pass blocking, dominating run blocking we ran most of our run plays to the right side and it's obvious why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryClark4Canton Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I thought that at times both of our tackles had trouble dealing with speed rushers. Overall, both had good years but both also had games where they got pretty abused. Simeon Rice abused Samuels twice. Burgess gave Jansen fits. Jared Allen got sacks on both of them. I'm not sure if this was because they were consistenly left on a island or what but Samuels especially SHOULD be left on an island and expected to dominate (at least that's how he's paid. You want Walter Jones, Orlando Pace money you damn well better not need any help over there). Jansen, from a physical standpoint isn't as wel equipped to handle speed rushers and as such, you'd like to be able to count on Samuels to have his side on lock and give help to Jansen but that wasn't always the case last year.Overall, I thought Jansen had an excellent year. You can't discount the fact that he was playing with two broken thumbs, either. That has GOT to affect your pass protection. I'm really satisfied with the entire starting group we've got up there. My main worry for this unit, for this team, for our entire season is the health of Jansen and Samuels. I'm scared ****less of what our line will be like should one of them miss significant time. I think the health of those two is one of (probably THE in my mind) biggest concern heading into next season. Buges, is that you? Well said post, our glaring weakness is o-line depth definitely. I think Samuel L and Big John stud performed well. I'd give Samuels a B- and Jansen a C+. Couple of times those thumbs looked like they were really hindering him which is to be expected. GC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPstretch Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 i thought he had a better year than samuels did, yet samuels made the pro bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishOrange15 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I did a statistical analysis of every starting O-Lineman in the league last year. Basically I created a formula utilizing footballoutsiders.com’s adjusted line yards and subtracting “total yards lost” (sack yards allowed + penalty yards allowed) from it. I won’t say this is a concrete way of evaluating an O-Lineman. However, I found that my statistics generally coincided with how many O-Linemen are rated. For example, guys like Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, Tom Nalen, etc. did superb according to my statistical formula. OTOH, guys like Luke Petitgout, Shaun O’Hara, and Kenyatta Walker did poorly. Essentially I think my formula gives a pretty solid ballpark figure on how well an O-Lineman played. According to my formula, Jansen finished 6th for all right tackles (using a formula of runs behind right tackle + runs at left defensive end minus total yards lost by Jansen) Samuels finished 5th for all Left Tackles and Randy Thomas finished 5th as well for all right guards. The killer parts were Rabach finished 31st for all centers and Dockery finished 23rd for all left guards. Rich………… Cowboys fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 i thought he had a better year than samuels did, yet samuels made the pro bowl Bad thumbs and all, I agree. He looked superior to Samuels. Also regardless of which side the strongest DE lines up, which many do switch for lefties. The blind side is more difficult. I feel with Brunell at QB, Jon is the most important player on the offensive side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Keep in mind that, despite the fact that Brunell is a lefty, the best pass rusher on most defenses is still on the right side (of the defense) and will be rushing against Chris Samuels most of the time. This is true, people do seem to forget this sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I did a statistical analysis of every starting O-Lineman in the league last year. Basically I created a formula utilizing footballoutsiders.com’s adjusted line yards and subtracting “total yards lost” (sack yards allowed + penalty yards allowed) from it.I won’t say this is a concrete way of evaluating an O-Lineman. However, I found that my statistics generally coincided with how many O-Linemen are rated. For example, guys like Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, Tom Nalen, etc. did superb according to my statistical formula. OTOH, guys like Luke Petitgout, Shaun O’Hara, and Kenyatta Walker did poorly. Essentially I think my formula gives a pretty solid ballpark figure on how well an O-Lineman played. According to my formula, Jansen finished 6th for all right tackles (using a formula of runs behind right tackle + runs at left defensive end minus total yards lost by Jansen) Samuels finished 5th for all Left Tackles and Randy Thomas finished 5th as well for all right guards. The killer parts were Rabach finished 31st for all centers and Dockery finished 23rd for all left guards. Rich………… Cowboys fan Nice, even for a Dallas fan. Seems about right too, though I definitely don't think Rabach is the 2nd worst starting C in the league. And yeah, Jansen played very well last year considering the man was coming off major knee surgery and played with two busted thumbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPstretch Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Seems about right too, though I definitely don't think Rabach is the 2nd worst starting C in the league.And yeah, Jansen played very well last year considering the man was coming off major knee surgery and played with two busted thumbs. i agree, i didnt think casey played poorly for the skins at all last year. also, jansen was coming off an achilles tear, not knee surgery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetch Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Jansen's ultimate power lies in the Flux Capacitor. As long as Marty evades Biff at the dance and Doc successfully harnesses 1.21 gigawatts of electricity... It's not going to be easy, but if it works I can reassure you: you're not just being a homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Bad thumbs and all, I agree. He looked superior to Samuels. Also regardless of which side the strongest DE lines up, which many do switch for lefties. The blind side is more difficult. I feel with Brunell at QB, Jon is the most important player on the offensive side of the ball. I agree. Rice absolutely owned Samuels last year (but he does that to a lot of people). Considering he was protecting Brunell's front side, I seem to remember him letting more pressure on Brunell than Jansen. Especially when you factor in that Jansen's a dominating run blocker not known for his pass protection, while Samuels is knows for his protection skills. I thought Jansen was much more deserving of a pro bowl spot. I'm expecting big things from our line this year, assuming they're healthy :fingersx: . 4 of them have been together for 2 years now under Giibbs and Bugel, 2nd year as an entire unit, they really started to come on big time at the end of last season and it's time for them to consistenly dominate. If our O-line stays healthy this year there's no limit to how far we can go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishOrange15 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 i agree, i didnt think casey played poorly for the skins at all last year.also, jansen was coming off an achilles tear, not knee surgery Rabach allowed the second most penalty yards last year as he was called for 8 holding calls. His pass protection wasn't exactly great either and in the end he wound up having the second highest amount of yards lost allowed (sack yards allowed + penalty yards allowed). When Washington did run up the middle, they were pretty successful finishing 10th overall in adjusted line yards. However, his yards lost was so bad that the decent job of run blocking killed his stats according to my formula. And truth be told, I don't think you can finish with the second highest amount of penalty yards at your position and be very good compared to the rest of the players around the league. Then again, Robbie Tobeck finished as the worst center according to my formula (pretty awful in everything from sack yards, penalty yards, and run blocking) and somehow got to the Pro Bowl. Rich........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPstretch Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 i thought rabach was such an upgrade over cory raymer that i guess i tried to ignore all the holding calls. he and dock did have a lot of holding calls against them last year. tobeck made the pro bowl because of shaun alexander IMO. he also played to the right of walter jones and steve hutchinson, 2 of the best at their positions, so tobeck had an easier job because of their presence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Overall, I thought Jansen had an excellent year. You can't discount the fact that he was playing with two broken thumbs, either. That has GOT to affect your pass protection. I'm really satisfied with the entire starting group we've got up there. My main worry for this unit, for this team, for our entire season is the health of Jansen and Samuels. I'm scared ****less of what our line will be like should one of them miss significant time. I think the health of those two is one of (probably THE in my mind) biggest concern heading into next season. Amen sportsfan i cant imagine haveing to block a big D end with TWO broken thumbs. What a warrior, thinking jj had a good season and continues to play well for us is NOT being a homer. We just need him and randy thomas to stay 100% healthy the whole year because running behind those two and sellers must put a HUGE smile on CPs face. Just remembering the play where CP grabbed onto Sellars and sellars powered him thru and after CP regained his balance he took it to the paint, the play was a toss to the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MossPortisTaylorRocky Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Samuels is the better of the two. Samuels is a rare breed. One of the best. He will blocking Jasons blind side for yrs to come. Jansen is good at run blocking but gets beat way too much. Like the KC game and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeSeanT. Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 All them Michigan boys know how to block... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I guess that tells you one thing stat analysis can only ever tell you so much and use the right stats and any ho hum player can seem a world beater, fortunatly football is played on the field and not the slide rule . That said it was an interesting and well worked argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalex41 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 JJ played with two broken thumbs last year and he did and "outstanding" job, true Brunell is a "lefty" but that does not minimize JJ's respon- sibility for "protecting" him. He still has to "plug the gap" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Jansen is easily one of the best RTs in the league. One of the reasons that the Redskins run to his side more often is that Thomas and Jansen have much better footwork than Samuels and Dockery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishOrange15 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 tobeck made the pro bowl because of shaun alexander IMO. he also played to the right of walter jones and steve hutchinson, 2 of the best at their positions, so tobeck had an easier job because of their presence Tobeck making the Pro Bowl was the biggest joke out there. He finished with the highest amount of penalty yards for all starting centers. He finished with the highest amount of total yards lost (sack yards + penalty yards) for all starting centers. He finished 25th in passing attempts per sack allowed. They did run very successfully up the middle, but I don't see how you can lead the league in penalty yards and make the Pro Bowl. Rich.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 That really does piss me off. IMO Jansen is the better tackle yet Samuels keeps on gettin the nod for Pro Bowls. I'm not saying that Samuels sucks, but why does he keep on getting all the votes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishOrange15 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 That really does piss me off. IMO Jansen is the better tackle yet Samuels keeps on gettin the nod for Pro Bowls. I'm not saying that Samuels sucks, but why does he keep on getting all the votes? Samuels plays left tackle (a position usually more highly regarded than RT) and was a much higher pick than Jansen was. Thus Samuels basically had a great reputation in the league before he played his first snap of football and since he's played well at LT, Jansen would have to practically be the best O-Lineman in the game before he started getting the same amount of recognition. Rich......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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