Spin-off conversation -- Son's name....

[Art]

So, my wife and I discovered today she is pregnant, and while it's early and she's high risk, we're very pleased things look in line for a championship game bye week birth -- well timed if I must say. Our first child is 15 months old and easily more adorable than any other child ever seen as proven on this very board previously . (Disagreement leads to immediate banning).

We're hoping for a balance with a boy for the next child. Here's the rub something in the adultery thread got me to thinking. When my wife and I first contemplated a life together 12 years ago, discussing children and picking out names became part of the future dream. We'd agreed on the girl's names. Brynn, Bria and Brianna if we had three girls. All names my wife preferred. No arguments. Boys names were a little harder.

We'd agreed long ago the first boy would be named Griffin, which is her maiden name. It lends itself to a nickname, Griff, which I find important in a boy's name and I can live with it. We didn't go deeper because I didn't really have any strong views.

In 2000 my father died in the single event that has likely had the greatest lasting impact on my life in terms of behavior. The night he died I told my wife our first boy's name had just changed. My wife hates the name Ken. Can't stand Kenny. Hates Kenneth. She's not thrilled about Arthur either. She's strictly refused to consider Kenneth Arthur as his name.

To me, I will not have a son who doesn't have that name. My wife and I have joked that at the hospital they ask the woman for the child's name, but, while she's IN the hospital, I can legally change the name of the boy . We haven't had to seriously get to this conversation, but, now with the possibility again, we need to come to grips with it.

For my way of thinking, the moment my dad died, I owed him the honorific of his name in the family for reasons beyond tradition. My wife's objection is dislike of the name. She's attempted compromise of Griffin Kenneth Mills and he's Griffin. I have never moved off his name for six years.

Bottom line is his name will be Kenneth Arthur Mills. She can call him Kam, or my preference, "Deuce", since he'll be "the second" all she wants. But, my family and I will know him as Ken. And he will know his namesake and how important he was to all of us. Poor little guy will have no hope of actually living up to the expectations placed in him .

This is a mattresses fight. It's one I see no way to move on and have a hard time understanding why it isn't an automatic. Every single man I know in this world has agreed the name is my father's name with an incredulous look of, "Yeah, obviously." But, as I clearly don't get out enough to the sensitive side of life, I'm curious as to what some here think of the name and how strongly it should be necessitated by either party.

For the record, his name WILL be Kenneth Arthur Mills if it's a boy. I'm just interested in seeing how others might identify how to get a reluctant spouse to actually happily agree, since we must not force disagreement upon others .

[dfitzo53]

Art, I've got no experience having or naming kids. I have relatively little even with serious relationships, so I don't think I have anything in the way of meaningful advice.

But I will say congratulations!

[Teller]

With all respect, you need to rethink this. You can't force your wife to agree to this. She can't and likely won't spend her life calling her first-born son by a name she can't stand.

You know as well as I do, that as much as we fathers love our children, there is no bond in the world like mother and child. None. She deserves, as do you, to have a name that she loves.

You've got to find a way to come to an agreement. Whether it's using your first name -- or your dad's first name as your son's middle name -- you've got to agree.

I was lucky. My grandfather's middle name was Lacy. Like you seem to view your father, my grandfather was/is my hero. My daughter's name is Lacy Elizabeth.

I know it's hard to agree on a boy's name. My wife and I are struggling with the same thing, so I'll be watching this thread closely. Just remember that the presumably beautiful woman you're married too may be bringing your first son into the world. She deserves a lot more than consideration on picking his name.

That being said, best of luck, and my thoughts and prayers to you and your family.

[PleaseBlitz]

Congrats Art!

Heres my suggestion:

To me, I will not have a son who doesn't have that name. My wife and I have joked that at the hospital they ask the woman for the child's name, but, while she's IN the hospital, I can legally change the name of the boy .

This should give you plenty of time:

[DCsportsfan53]

Don't know what advice to give but I would like to say congratualtions, Art. May Kenneth growup to be as stubburn and articulate as his father.

[Joe Sick]

I don't want to get banned (again) so I won't post any pictures of my 14 month old son here.

We didn't want to go the traditional route of naming the kid right after both our dads. My dad's name is Jack (at least what everyone calls him) and my wife's dad was Brian. Our little guy ended up Jackson Bryant Sichol. (That's where the Sick comes from in my username, not my politics...

Maybe some form of that would work for you. I knew a guy named Kennen. How about Artis, after the basketball player? So, I guess that's one way to go. Just kidding, kind of. I wanted to name my boy Homer J, but I lost that one. I think we found a good compromise. Just keep suggesting weird and/or stupid names until she finally caves. Feel free to use the Homer J one.

I'd say, Stick to your guns. Kids these days need nice, strong family names, not something out of a book of Indian proverbs or a mountain in Fiji or something. Personally, I'm sick of all these Aidens and Summers out there.

Edit: Almost forgot - CONGRATULATIONS! The wife is already bugging me for #2. Thankfully, I spend too much time on here! :laugh:

[Bonef1de]

I have one child, a girl who we both agreed on the name Kiana Aloha.

I myself have a middle name of Alan which is after my grandfather on my fathers side. But myself personally do not have any plans to name a boy after my father. I haven't lost my father Art so I'm not trying to tell you what to do but if it was me I would get an extensive memorial tattoo to show my love and pride for my old man. (I already have one of my father serving his country in Viet Nam) But each life is it's own and I believe shouldn't have the pressures of our own pains placed on them from the beginning.

Your wife is your best friend and you guys are gonna spend the rest of your lives together, sometimes we as men need to put aside our own pride and listen our woman. I know that I hardly ever agree with mine but can almost always look back and see that she was right.

[Art]

Hog,

Love the feedback brother, but, why is it I can't force my wife to agree to this, but she can force me to agree to something I don't want? Is give and take essentially simply giving?

The mother/child bond thing certainly exists. With Brynn, the two were attached at the nipple for 11 months. Brynn only wanted mom, because dad had very little for her. That's changed a great deal since that stopped. Brynn is in a several month daddy phase now, mostly because daddy has an endless ability to throw 26-pounds of baby in the air. I would expect that to go back and forth for most of her young life before tipping wildly to the mom side when dating comes .

At issue here is her relative dislike of the name "Ken" versus my individual psychological issues with my father's death leading to an incredible compulsion to make something right I wasn't actually wrong in, but, was practical about. When my dad was diagnosed, I'd just gotten a great new job. I wanted to coordinate some time away to go help him, but, I didn't want to leave immediately, preferring to establish myself before leaving for a few months.

I was too practical about life and work to do what I knew I should have done, which was to get to him. I thought I had months. I had days. He died on a family vacation I didn't take so I could get things together to take a longer leave. Likely the problem I have is I will not be practical or reasonable about issues involve him again. I fully appreciate how ridiculous that is and how totally out of bounds and even UNFAIR it is to my wife, as are my trips back to his home in Michigan alone to simply sit by a tree we planted with his ashes, just to be.

I might even say I appreciate it is something of a sickness as it relates on this particular issue. In the end, I weigh the amazing foolishness I KNOW I have on the issue, versus, "I don't like the name Ken," and I can't really work up a lot of give and take on the issue .

AT least I admit to be a lunatic.

If my dad was alive, we'd never have a kid named Ken. That he's not means we can't have a boy not named Ken. It's one of those conclusions you kind of wish you didn't have to work to explain because you're not totally sure why it is so ingrained as the only possible answer yourself.

[Art]

Joe. We're going to have a baby off picture contest in poll form . I'm a mod though, so I can rig it. Sorry.

[kevinklein]

Congrats on finding out your wife is pregnant. I think it'd cool to have a son called "Kam"...very unique.

Is anyone else upset by the fact that the Championship week is still 9 months away.

[jrockster21]

I personally don't see the problem with giving him your dad's name as his middle name. It still honors your father, and you can still call him Ken if you want. And when it really boils down to it, a name is just a name, bro. If you really want to honor your father, raise your son to be a good man, as I'm sure your father was. :whoknows:

I think the most important part is that your wife has a significant role in naming your son. She's giving birth to him for crying out loud!! She certainly has some say in what your child's name is going to be.

Other than that, the only thing I can suggest is that you kiss ass and suck up like you've never kissed ass and sucked up before! :laugh:

[visionary]

So, my wife and I discovered today she is pregnant, and while it's early and she's high risk, we're very pleased things look in line for a championship game bye week birth -- well timed if I must say. Our first child is 15 months old and easily more adorable than any other child ever seen as proven on this very board previously . (Disagreement leads to immediate banning).

We're hoping for a balance with a boy for the next child. Here's the rub something in the adultery thread got me to thinking. When my wife and I first contemplated a life together 12 years ago, discussing children and picking out names became part of the future dream. We'd agreed on the girl's names. Brynn, Bria and Brianna if we had three girls. All names my wife preferred. No arguments. Boys names were a little harder.

We'd agreed long ago the first boy would be named Griffin, which is her maiden name. It lends itself to a nickname, Griff, which I find important in a boy's name and I can live with it. We didn't go deeper because I didn't really have any strong views.

In 2000 my father died in the single event that has likely had the greatest lasting impact on my life in terms of behavior. The night he died I told my wife our first boy's name had just changed. My wife hates the name Ken. Can't stand Kenny. Hates Kenneth. She's not thrilled about Arthur either. She's strictly refused to consider Kenneth Arthur as his name.

To me, I will not have a son who doesn't have that name. My wife and I have joked that at the hospital they ask the woman for the child's name, but, while she's IN the hospital, I can legally change the name of the boy . We haven't had to seriously get to this conversation, but, now with the possibility again, we need to come to grips with it.

For my way of thinking, the moment my dad died, I owed him the honorific of his name in the family for reasons beyond tradition. My wife's objection is dislike of the name. She's attempted compromise of Griffin Kenneth Mills and he's Griffin. I have never moved off his name for six years.

Bottom line is his name will be Kenneth Arthur Mills. She can call him Kam, or my preference, "Deuce", since he'll be "the second" all she wants. But, my family and I will know him as Ken. And he will know his namesake and how important he was to all of us. Poor little guy will have no hope of actually living up to the expectations placed in him .

This is a mattresses fight. It's one I see no way to move on and have a hard time understanding why it isn't an automatic. Every single man I know in this world has agreed the name is my father's name with an incredulous look of, "Yeah, obviously." But, as I clearly don't get out enough to the sensitive side of life, I'm curious as to what some here think of the name and how strongly it should be necessitated by either party.

For the record, his name WILL be Kenneth Arthur Mills if it's a boy. I'm just interested in seeing how others might identify how to get a reluctant spouse to actually happily agree, since we must not force disagreement upon others .

So you can't/won't have Kenneth as a middle name? If that's the case, I guess she will just have to get over his or call him something else as a nickname. Kam sounds good. No idea how to convince her though, maybe time will do that... :laugh: I really don't see how she could really hate the name Ken and all it's derivations and permeatations that much anyway, it's cool name.

[Teller]

Again, with all respect, I think you're looking at two different issues. On one hand, you're telling your wife, "This is the only option." She's telling you, "I don't like this ONE option." It is different. Though she tries to shoot down one option, there are an infinite amount of possibilities left. You're giving her no choice whatsoever.

And no. Give and take is by no means simply give. She doesn't want Kenneth Arthur Mills. That's all you want. It's possible that what neither of you is seeing is the potential for common ground.

For instance, Griffin Kenneth Mills. You get to honor your father as you rightfully wish to do. She doesn't have to call her son Kenneth or a derivative thereof. It seems to me to be a win-win. And keep in mind, at every major life event, your son would be referred to as Griffin Kenneth (or Arthur) Mills. Think about it, graduation, his wedding, every major event there is.

I respect your feelings about your father. I understand the feelings of missed opportunities and the hole in your life. And I'm not going to hijack this and make it a religious thread, but your dad KNOWS how you feel. Trust me.

Art, I hate to say this, truly. No matter what you do, your dad is not coming back. You've fought through his loss, and are making a great life for you and your family. When you get right down to it, your father's legacy is YOU. Simply by providing for your family, and being a great husband and father, you honor him everyday. The fact that you love and respect him enough to name your son after him is just icing on the cake.

You have a wife who supports you and supports your following the Redskins around all season long; and God only knows what else. You've got a good woman. Reward her, and she'll reward you. I'm sure she understands better than anyone else how you feel about your dad. I would guess she'd be more than willing to make some concessions in that regard, as far as your son's name. I'd just suggest giving her some options. If she can make a choice, even between just two options it'll help IMO.

Also, just for the record, you are by no means a lunatic. (At least not on this issue. ) But don't try to provide your dad with some kind of legacy based on a name. YOU are already continuing his legacy; pretty damn well from what little I know.

Anyway, I hope I haven't come off as some know-it-all prick who's trying to tell you what to do. I'm just trying to throw you a little different perspective. Again, nothing but the best to you all.

[jrockster21]

The more I think about it, Griffin is a badass name. I might just steal that for my son (when and if I have one)!

[Jumbo]

I was a little dragging in getting here on purpose, and I haven't read the last couple posts yet, so I may depart from the crowd, but I would like to think you can convince your wife in time, and it seems to me like she would eventually "have to" accept and understand that the depth and nature of the sentiment you're responding to runs a little deeper for most people than some strongly-held (but still arbitrary) personal taste on a name.

Especially given that there's some flexibility in that she can call the child some nickname more appealing to her preferences. I would insist that your reason is too meaningful and runs to deeply to compromise in this particular, specifci matter, and I'd remain adamant.

Admittedly, were it me, I would do this firmly but gently and respectfully, and with my inimitable persuasive charm and obvious flair for tenderness, while still being stunningly masculine and able to strike an imposing figure. Now whatever approach you select to achieve your goal, I say you should prevail in having the say and that she must concede and do her best to accept. And you can always surprise her with some cool concession on something down the road. You can look that word up.

BTW, congratulations and let her raise the child .

Seriously, I think you must make a great dad. And I figure Mrs. Art must be half/saint and half/Delta, but no doubt all woman.

P.S. I didn't care much for my dad, he wasn't around much before he passed, and I have minimal investment in family names or the whole continuity thing, so my comments weren't based on sympathetic vibes via those matters.

[Titaw]

Art,

Yet again I completely agree with you. I am a 3rd and when my fiancee was pregnant we made the ultimate comprimise; I picked the boy's name: John Bernard Holman IV and she could pick the girls name. Well, when our daughter was born we picked Taylor Leann Holman.

I wanted the 4th because of my grandfather, one of the greatest men to ever walk the face of this earth. So I can understand where you are coming from. All I can say is stand firm and hopefully she'll come around.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Personally, I'd compromise a little bit in this situation (as much as I like "Deuce" as a nickname ). Probably one of your better options when it comes to not starting a feud is to make use of your son's middle name in some fashion and either call him by his middle name (Kenneth Griffin Mills) or honor your father with his middle name (Griffin Kenneth Mills).

K. Griffin Mills

Griffin K. Mills

(you can feel free to call him whatever irregardless of the ordering, of course)

I like the latter, myself. This way your wife will give it the :thumbsup: and you both get a little something. Also keep in mind that giving your son your father's full name isn't necessarily the only way to honor his memory in the next generation. The way I see it, a name by itself doesn't mean much of anything... it's only what the person behind the name does in his/her lifetime that matters. Your son certainly won't feel anymore special if his entire name is based on his grandfather's than two-thirds of it. Relent just a little bit with the name and make up for it by telling your son the kind of man your father was.

This is coming from someone who shares a middle name with his own grandfather, a man who I respect tremendously and look up to. I honestly don't think I would appreciate him any more than I already do if I also shared a first name with him. It's just knowing about him that counts...

Besides, if you have another son you can always name him ______ Arthur Mills. Pay homage to your father in two kids

In conclusion:

Griffin K. Mills is a badass name

:peaceout:

[Kosher Ham]

Congrats Bro.

I am excited just to have a new Redskins fan in this world.

Hope all goes well, and everyone is healthy.

As far as names, I will have to read the rest of your post. haha.

[spanishomelette]

Geez, Art...You agreed upfront to name your first boy Griffin..Tsk tsk tsk.

Sounds like you'll have to conceive 2 boys to resolve this issue. Congratulations.

[Ghost of]

It's not like your dad was named Scientific Mapp.

And not to sound crass but whose dad's death had such a significant impact? Your wife's dad? No?

Yours? Oh, okay then.

Then you get to name a boy by his name provided it's a reasonable name (not Darquedrion or Shasta or something)

This really shouldn't be a debate.

I plan on at least giving STRONG consideration to naming my son Dale after my father. The foot is going down on this one. I suggest you run down the history again, perhaps she forgot since the last time you broke down in tears in her arms. Or maybe it never happened but she should know it COULD happen and thus you win.

Again, I'm not trying to be insensitive by parlaying such a loss into an advantage the significance of the loss but trying to formulate a common sense and plain talk solution to your problem based on a greater and deeper truth that, if things were as they should be, would find acknowledgment and recognition. Charm really shouldn't be needed. Just ask her if her parents are still alive.

I disagree with honorary_hog here. I mean, what he said is true about how you are creating a legacy for him regardless of a name. And you should give options (I guess) but I could never call my child "THomas" and that was my dad's middle name. Dale or nothing. Unless the spouse has some kind of similar history where she wants to honor someone, then you start working around compromises or maybe the gender doesn't match. Yes, his wife is a great woman but isn't it kind of petty to hate THIS particular name. I mean, gimme a break.

That's like me getting married and my wife just HAPPENS to really hate the name Dale. WTF?! :doh: Doubtful. Suspect. It may be bad luck but that's HER bad luck not yours. It's a son. You're the father. You have someone special you want to honor with a name. It's not some bizarro world name---you win.

Did she get to name the girl or have final say? (oh, apparently she had the major hand in that.)

Go out there and be obstinate like we know you can be.

And by the way, not crazy about the name Arthur? Uh... :laugh:

[Sarge]

Congrats Art.

But you're gonna have to find a comprimise here bud.

You know how when you forget your anniversary or birthday or Mothers Day and you have to hear about it for months?

You're gonna hear about this for at least 18 years and maybe beyond

You could always name him Sue:)

[Major Harris]

Hog,

Love the feedback brother, but, why is it I can't force my wife to agree to this, but she can force me to agree to something I don't want? Is give and take essentially simply giving?

yes, give and take is essentially giving, from each end. a compromise.

i'm going to say something that will embarass the :pooh: out of me right now: when my wife was pregnant with our son, i tried to convince her that lavar was a good name. :doh: now, i'm not sure that had she actually agreed to it that i'd really go through with it, but i pretty much knew she wouldn't so i pressed the issue.

naming your child is a hard thing to do. it has to be something you both like.

look at it this way: do you really think your dad would want you and his daughter in law to name his grandchild something that one of you hated just to honor him? you think he would want her to be unhappy in his name? i'd venture to say no.

the fact that she's willing to use the name as a middle name is compromise on her part. you and your side of the family could call him by his middle name.

:2cents:

oh, and congrats art...

[Brave]

I'm a Jr. and there were thoughts of my son being III. In the end, we didn't go that route because we simply found a name that we liked better. Actually ... I came up with his name: Landon Hayes Kellum.

However, it was not real important to me in the first place that he be a III. My feelings, if one party feels VERY strongly about bestowing that honor, the other party should really have a better reason to deny it than "I don't like that name."

They would learn to love that name when if was the name of their child.

Oh yeah ... congrats Art.

And my daughter's name, just so she gets equal time (any parents of more than one know about THAT): Kayleigh Taylor Kellum

[visionary]

Congrats Art.

But you're gonna have to find a comprimise here bud.

You know how when you forget your anniversary or birthday or Mothers Day and you have to hear about it for months?

You're gonna hear about this for at least 18 years and maybe beyond

You could always name him Sue:)

Hmmm, Sarge telling someone to compromise...that's kind of scary actually... Maybe I should rethink my position on this :laugh:

[jrockster21]

look at it this way: do you really think your dad would want you and his daughter in law to name his grandchild something that one of you hated just to honor him? you think he would want her to be unhappy in his name? i'd venture to say no.

That's an excellent point. I think your father would be more honored if you raised your son right and taught him good values and how to be a man; all the lessons your father passed down to you. I mean that's really what its about, right?

oh, and congrats art...

Oh yeah, that too!