Is this adultery?

[Art]

Art,

Most of that was the worst advice ever.

For a pathetic, frightened boy, sure. For a man who needs at some point to remember it's ok to be a man, not so much. A line of trust was crossed that can't be uncrossed. But, if things continue in this relationship, it can be made quite clear how great the breach was, and how completely frightening the reaction can be.

The wife doesn't deserve understanding or rational conversation. In this relationship, she obviously feels she needs to find "passion" somewhere else. Only by acting passionately and convincingly can anything good come out of this. Going to a marriage councelor will lead to a divorce because there will never be any respect again. If she can do this without consequence and only with a couple meetings with a shrink, she can do anything she wants.

[Madman_Mike]

Seriously Art... bad advice. :doh:

She needs a chance to make things right on her own.

You can't force things to work out. You can't bully a marriage into working. There may be a point that something like that unfolds, but if it does things have gone too far.

[AlexRS]

His problem deciding how to proceed is partly because he doesn't know if he wants to put in the work necessary to save his marriage only to have it return to the same sorry state it was in.

Tell him that this "put work into saving marriage" is bull. The work will actually go towards making him a better person.

Once he is making progress in that regard he would be able to see the situation more clearly, and the right course of action will become self-evident.

His kids will grow up to be better people as a result as well.

Tell him to put in the work, but do it for HIMSELF instead of for something else.

[ntotoro]

Are you talking about wife's emotional cheating or husband's spying on her?

Both are pretty serious signs that these people need to work on themselves, and on their relationship.

I would have never ended up in his position. He made matters much, much worse by spying on her.

Course of action - be a little kinder, a bit more compassionate to each other.

Kinder... ? Compassion?

Eff that. She has disrespected him. No 21st Century metrosexual feel-good terminology is going to change that.

How in the hell did he make matters worse by monitoring her online contact with the guy? You mean he found out about it and that made it worse?

She's the one at fault here, bottom line. The fact that she has been emotionally unfaithful and disrespectful to her Husband is the sign the marriage isn't healthy, but it's no excuse for her behavior.

You would have never ended up in this position, I agree. You would have ended up with a wife sleeping around completely behind your back without any knowledge of it at all if you didn't nip it in the bud.

[stevenaa]

Brave,

To me this is a very simple process for you.

First, you approach Tony. You do it in public so no one can say you did anything untoward. And you do it quickly. You pull him to the side and inform him in a very calm, cool, easy voice, that he's done talking to your wife. That if he is ever in the same area as you, he needs to move quickly to get out of that area. You conveny a quiet seriousness in your threat without ever actually communicating a threat.

You then call your wife on the cell and hand the phone to Tony. If he will not talk, you simply declare to her you're standing where you are, saying what you're saying. You make him declare they aren't talking anymore or you do it for him, in front of him, with your wife listening.

As you walk away with her still on the phone, you tell her it's everything in you not to take everything from her stupid, selfish *****. You and the kids are going away for a father's kid weekend, because it would not be a safe home for them to be in given what SHE did and how angry you are with her. If you get back and feel better, you'll talk, she'll listen, and she'll adjust. If you don't feel better, you'll serve her papers and sue for custody so she can be the whore she apparently feels need to be. You'll have the kids call her if they mention it.

And you do this all. Take the kids somewhere nice. Have fun. I doubt you'll ever have the problem again if you get back and want to continue with your wife. You don't need to go to any third party for help. You need to take control of your situation. You can accept your portion of the blame in the lack of heat in your marriage, and you can volunteer to try to improve in areas important to your wife. But, the line was crossed by her, not you, so, you utilize this moment to establish the order of things again and see if you aren't even a little lucky to use this to improve everything for a long time.

You now know how close you are to losing her. If you're at all worried about that, only your ability to take control of the situation will allow it to improve.

You are a hard ass. Treating her like dirt isn't going to help. There's no excusing what she did, but she is his wife. If it's actually gotten physical, all bets are off. But if he wants to actually save his marriage, beating her down like a dog is not the way to go. Now, if he wants to kick her to the curb, it is certainly an option.

[G-Prime]

Tell him to keep all evidence hidden and don't even tell her about what he's found... When it comes time for divorce this can be great ammunition.

[rictus58]

For a pathetic, frightened boy, sure. For a man who needs at some point to remember it's ok to be a man, not so much. A line of trust was crossed that can't be uncrossed. But, if things continue in this relationship, it can be made quite clear how great the breach was, and how completely frightening the reaction can be.

The wife doesn't deserve understanding or rational conversation. In this relationship, she obviously feels she needs to find "passion" somewhere else. Only by acting passionately and convincingly can anything good come out of this. Going to a marriage councelor will lead to a divorce because there will never be any respect again. If she can do this without consequence and only with a couple meetings with a shrink, she can do anything she wants.

Wow. Talk about a Tom Cruise response to counseling.

Counseling can help. There is a chance it can't as well. But if it's a path that Brave would like to persue, it's one worth following. If his wife is open to the idea, and honest in her sessions, it can work wonders for the both of them.

Nothing good can come from confronting the other man in public. Infact, it could make things a lot worse.

[Destino]

I agree with Art 100%. Sometimes a man has to step up and let it be known where the limits are. Don't get violent if you can help it because should the marriage end you don't want to go into custody court looking violent. Be calm and direct and let people know how it's going to play out. If she chooses to walk away because you didn't beg her over her own mistakes then it wouldn't work anyway.

Seriously people do you think that if you step out of line your partner should be apologetic about it? Screw that.

[AlexRS]

Kinder... ? Compassion?

Eff that. She has disrespected him. No 21st Century metrosexual feel-good terminology is going to change that.

Disrespect can only happen when there is atmosphere for it.

Yes, the current timeframe apperently has her disrespecting him before he disrespected her.

Still, this does not "just happen."

There are two sides disrespecting each other here.

How in the hell did he make matters worse by monitoring her online contact with the guy? You mean he found out about it and that made it worse?

Mutual disrespect.

Disrespect breeds disrespect.

She's the one at fault here, bottom line. The fact that she has been emotionally unfaithful and disrespectful to her Husband is the sign the marriage isn't healthy, but it's no excuse for her behavior.

I do not believe there is such thing as an "excuse for behavior"

There are reasons, yes - but not excuses.

You would have never ended up in this position, I agree. You would have ended up with a wife sleeping around completely behind your back without any knowledge of it at all if you didn't nip it in the bud.

[ntotoro]

Disrespect can only happen when there is atmosphere for it.

Yes, the current timeframe apperently has her disrespecting him before he disrespected her.

Still, this does not "just happen."

There are two sides disrespecting each other here.

Then what did he do to make her unfaithful? Finding out she had been so wasn't the cause for it. This isn't a chicken-vs-the egg scenario. She was the one who was unfaithful. Even when people just plain grow apart, adultery is wrong.

[AlexRS]

Then what did he do to make her unfaithful? Finding out she had been so wasn't the cause for it. This isn't a chicken-vs-the egg scenario. She was the one who was unfaithful. Even when people just plain grow apart, adultery is wrong.

People do not grow apart if people grow together.

It is not as simple as "what he did what she did".

This is just a symptom of 10 years in a marriage he himself described as "not so strong"...

The good part is that their marriage is actually much stronger than they think it is. They just need to believe it. Everything is not so horrible. This event is a starting point, a wake-up call from which things get better.

[Brave]

Thank you all for the responses and well-wishes. There is no bad advice ... only differing opinions ... which I was looking for.

About the spying. I will not have a problem telling her I did that. She knows I have never been jealous of her in my life. She has been able to do whatever she pleases without me: beach trips with the girls, nights out on the town, etc. Perhaps I am "not jealous" to a fault.

I am not going to hide the fact that I got suspicious and made arrangements to check things out. It's my damned computer and if I want to know what's going on with it, I will.

I will let her know what I know. At some point, everything will need to be on the table.

I may not have a plan as elaborate as Art's, but I do plan on confronting Tony. I will probably do it at his work so there is little to no chance of it turning too ugly.

[Zguy28]

Brave, I fell into this myself with a lady coworker about 2 years ago, although it didn't get to a sexual level (except in my head). It happened to me so subtley that I didn't notice it at first. We just started sharing our problems with each other and it became more intimate over time. Much of it was my neglect of my marriage and letting it stagnate, so my emotions took the easy path. I only came to a realization of what was happening when my wife said to me "You talk about Amy from work than you talk about me." Ouch. I immediately pulled back and instead focused on my wife for the woman she is. You must confront her on this, but in gentleness and love. But sometimes when you love someone the truth can hurt. Do you still love her?

Here are some things I found personally useful:

1. Don't do it alone. Join a small group of some kind. We had an immediate affinity with our church group, meeting regularly for learning, community, and worship—we "did life together."

We developed close relationships. When our marriage got rough, we had friends to call.

Who will you call? Don't do it alone. Begin now—nurture some meaningful relationships.

2. Seek assistance. A professional counselor can provide objectivity and facilitate communication, steering a disaster-bound marriage toward recovery.

3. Soften your heart. Relationships are most vulnerable when disagreements escalate to the point of deadlock. If you let them, circumstances will quickly spiral to standoff stage—past disagreement, beyond raised voices to a point where communication stops and the only option seen through the helplessness and hurt is to walk out.

Before you give up, pause and look at yourself:

• Do you need to ask forgiveness?

• What are you angry about?

• Do you need to forgive?

• Is a headstrong attitude stonewalling your marriage?

• How might you compromise?

• Why did you get married in the first place? Remember?

Someone needs to give in. Someone needs to soften his or her heart and take a first step toward healing. Relinquish your need to "be right." Stop the finger pointing, quit the blaming. Humble yourself and submit to the possibility that you contributed to the breakdown. Turn your focus from anger to negotiation and next steps.

What's more important, your pride or your marriage?

:2cents:

[The King]

The King would let that ho keep talking to dude. While The King would be making copies of all of her interaction with dude. I will gather my evidence first without her knowing. By the time she starts screwing the dude I will have me lawyer ready to teach her azz a lesson. The lesson would be not to try to get over on The King. I would keep everything including the house and the kids. After the divorce is final. I would introduce her sister or best friend to the long stroke. LOL Im so damn cool.

[Destino]

Are you talking about wife's emotional cheating or husband's spying on her?

Both are pretty serious signs that these people need to work on themselves, and on their relationship.

I would have never ended up in his position. He made matters much, much worse by spying on her.

Absolute nonsense. He didn't spy just for kicks, this is no different then investigating a strange noise at night - you don't get up at 3AM with a baseball bat just because you want to, you have cause for concern and respond accordingly. If you suspect your wife is doing some shady things and she's not being honest, the natural reaction is to investigate. He was right in this case. There is nothing at all wrong for taking steps to make sure your house is in order.

Course of action - be a little kinder, a bit more compassionate to each other.

More nonsense. She stepped out of line and he has every right to be upset. What rational adult doesn't expect and understand that lying to the person the married is going to piss them off?

[JPM285181]

For a pathetic, frightened boy, sure. For a man who needs at some point to remember it's ok to be a man, not so much. A line of trust was crossed that can't be uncrossed. But, if things continue in this relationship, it can be made quite clear how great the breach was, and how completely frightening the reaction can be.

The wife doesn't deserve understanding or rational conversation. In this relationship, she obviously feels she needs to find "passion" somewhere else. Only by acting passionately and convincingly can anything good come out of this. Going to a marriage councelor will lead to a divorce because there will never be any respect again. If she can do this without consequence and only with a couple meetings with a shrink, she can do anything she wants.

Art I totally agree with some of what you say. Braves wife has to realize there are some degree of consequence for her actions. I also think approaching Tony is a huge mistake. Tony really is not the issue, its the wifes #%^*up period. I also would say that your advice closes the door on reconciliation. There are many variables we dont know. Maybe the couples life revolves around the children. Maybe they never do anything for themselves. Maybe Brave works all the time. Maybe they just co-exist with no fun or excitement. Maybe their work schedules conflict?................. Do you see my point? These are all fixable issues if both parties so desire. I agree that Brave has to draw the line before this escalates and keep his backbone while doing so but remember there are children involved and compromise and civility has to be maintaned thru this

[AlexRS]

Thank you all for the responses and well-wishes. There is no bad advice ... only differing opinions ... which I was looking for.

About the spying. I will not have a problem telling her I did that. She knows I have never been jealous of her in my life. She has been able to do whatever she pleases without me: beach trips with the girls, nights out on the town, etc. Perhaps I am "not jealous" to a fault.

I am not going to hide the fact that I got suspicious and made arrangements to check things out. It's my damned computer and if I want to know what's going on with it, I will.

I will let her know what I know. At some point, everything will need to be on the table.

I may not have a plan as elaborate as Art's, but I do plan on confronting Tony. I will probably do it at his work so there is little to no chance of it turning too ugly.

Please do not confront Tony. This has NOTHING to do with Tony. This is between you and your wife. By keeping Tony in the picture you are keeping Tony in the picture.

She does not like or want Tony. She wants YOU. This whole thing is just her way of dealing with distance between the two of you.

[Destino]

Thank you all for the responses and well-wishes. There is no bad advice ... only differing opinions ... which I was looking for.

About the spying. I will not have a problem telling her I did that. She knows I have never been jealous of her in my life. She has been able to do whatever she pleases without me: beach trips with the girls, nights out on the town, etc. Perhaps I am "not jealous" to a fault.

I am not going to hide the fact that I got suspicious and made arrangements to check things out. It's my damned computer and if I want to know what's going on with it, I will.

I will let her know what I know. At some point, everything will need to be on the table.

I may not have a plan as elaborate as Art's, but I do plan on confronting Tony. I will probably do it at his work so there is little to no chance of it turning too ugly.

Good luck buddy. I really mean that.

[Thiebear]

Brave, to protect yourself, make sure you save the information you've learned/gathered in a safe place that she can't access it.

I know that doesn't sound nice, but if things unfortunately follow a more dire path, it will help you.

It doesnt matter in Virginia...

[JPM285181]

I agree with Art 100%. Sometimes a man has to step up and let it be known where the limits are. Don't get violent if you can help it because should the marriage end you don't want to go into custody court looking violent. Be calm and direct and let people know how it's going to play out. If she chooses to walk away because you didn't beg her over her own mistakes then it wouldn't work anyway.

Seriously people do you think that if you step out of line your partner should be apologetic about it? Screw that.

Hey Destino this is spoken like a true 26 year old. You are correct about letting her know the limits but remember there are 2 kids involved and that means the answers and solutions are a little different.

[Henry]

I like Art's response. A lot.

If it were me, though, I don't think I'd waste my time with Tony. This isn't about him. It's about me and my wife.

I would definately confront my wife though. And I'd make sure that it was clear that whatever problems we may be having, the line was crossed by her. There is no excuse for cheating (and yes, if you have to lie about it, it's cheating) I would definately take the 'kids/father weekend' and let her think long and hard about what she really wants out of our relationship. Work has to be done by both sides, but she has to do more. She broke the trust. She crossed the line. That does matter.

[Destino]

Please do not confront Tony. This has NOTHING to do with Tony. This is between you and your wife. By keeping Tony in the picture you are keeping Tony in the picture.

She does not like or want Tony. She wants YOU. This whole thing is just her way of dealing with distance between the two of you.

You have your own opinion but I know a lot of guys love nothing more then breaking up healthy relationships should they be interested in the girl. It's not hard at all if she lets you hand around. A few well placed comments will make all of their little spats into big fights. You'd be surprised how much trouble you can cause just by opening a line of trust and communication.

[Thiebear]

I agree with Art 100% also.. I went through the exact scenario and did it his way.

There are consequences to actions or there are not.... you pick.

But if you don't fix this 100% there will Never be trust again.

I confronted the Special Forces guy she was seeing (didnt work)..... he tried to move in to her house 3 months after the seperation but I went over and told him he had 3 days to get out or I was taking the children forever... he left that night...

Man-up!

[Destino]

Hey Destino this is spoken like a true 26 year old. You are correct about letting her know the limits but remember there are 2 kids involved and that means the answers and solutions are a little different.

I understand that I'm young but if you are upset and don't communicate that what are you going to end up with? A wife that you don't trust and a lot of bitterness you never let out. He needs to be direct and she has a lot to make up for. You can't force marriages to stay together - but not being honest with yourself will kill you on the inside.

I'm not saying he needs to walk away, I'm saying that kneeling down and apologizing for someone elses wrong doing is like putting the relationship on life support. It may still be alive, but not really. Being straight with eachother is the only way this thing can get back on the right path.

[AlexRS]

You have your own opinion but I know a lot of guys love nothing more then breaking up healthy relationships should they be interested in the girl. It's not hard at all if she lets you hand around. A few well placed comments will make all of their little spats into big fights. You'd be surprised how much trouble you can cause just by opening a line of trust and communication.

Indeed. The relationship is essentially at mercy of evildoers if there is no communication, mutual understanding, and respect.

Breaking up a healthy relationship from the outside is impossible.