Attention Fox News... Bush's Immigration Position Did Not Change

[Sarge]

Most of these people are immigrating not for themselves, but for their family. This is evidenced by the fact that they send so much money back to Mexico. I know things are different when you stray from the border, but you could never tell who is illegal or legal here based simply on the language they speak.

I want to become a bank robber. You know, to benefit my family. Sure it's against the law, but no one is really going to enforce it, are they?

And granted, it would be easier for me to rip off the bank if I worked there and tried hard to learn the system, but that would require effort, and who wants to do that when it's so much easier to pass the teller a note?

[HSW]

I want to become a bank robber. You know, to benefit my family. Sure it's against the law, but no one is really going to enforce it, are they?

And granted, it would be easier for me to rip off the bank if I worked there and tried hard to learn the system, but that would require effort, and who wants to do that when it's so much easier to pass the teller a note?

No you would get arrested. This is a poor analogy. It's like saying

if you speed then that is the same as murder...over the top and

would get you a failing grade in any PME writing course.:laugh:

[luckydevil]

I wonder how many of you would feel if you were living in Los Angeles area or in a border state. It's hard to imagine until you really experience massive illegal immigration on a local level.

Well, polls show that people in border states have a far more positive view of immigration then people in non-border states.

[Sarge]

over the top and

would get you a failing grade in any PME writing course.:laugh:

That anaolgy almost made me puke :laugh:

OK, how about going into child pornography? Drug running? A prostitution ring? The money I make would all benefit my family, because after 22 years in the military I'm not exactly rich, ya know.

And afterall, I'm a human being too! I just want a better life like everyone else

[Sarge]

Well, polls show that people in border states have a far more positive view of immigration then people in non-border states.

I'd like to see that poll. Not that polls are worth a hoot

[luckydevil]

I'd like to see that poll. Not that polls are worth a hoot

Sure, it will take some time to get it. I didn't save the link, . But why do you care we all know that you are opposed to legal immigration (well people with brown skin) as well.

[HSW]

That anaolgy almost made me puke :laugh:

OK, how about going into child pornography? Drug running? A prostitution ring? The money I make would all benefit my family, because after 22 years in the military I'm not exactly rich, ya know.

And afterall, I'm a human being too! I just want a better life like everyone else

Still reaching Sarge...

Then again you old timers always were set in your ways!

P.S. Lived in Hawaii for 4.5 years. Loved it.

[Sarge]

Sure, it will take some time to get it. I didn't save the link, . But why do you care we all know that you are opposed to legal immigration (well people with brown skin) as well.

Yeah, wouldn't the world just be so much better without all those pesky brown people

[luckydevil]

Yeah, wouldn't the world just be so much better without all those pesky brown people

You tell me, Sarge. Because you sure believe America would be better without those pesky brown people

[Sarge]

You tell me, Sarge. Because you sure believe America would be better without those pesky brown people

You know, for someone that loves to yell or insinuate "Bigot" every third thread, you sure seem to bring race up a lot.

I've said it before and for the slow of you, I'll say it again. I wouldn't care if they were purple, they are breaking the law by sneaking in here. Before you consider anything else (Human rights, "Civil" rights etc) that needs to be considered.

Go home. Use the time waiting for a visa to learn English and then come back legally and I'll have no problem with you

[luckydevil]

You know, for someone that loves to yell or insinuate "Bigot" every third thread, you sure seem to bring race up a lot.

I've said it before and for the slow of you, I'll say it again. I wouldn't care if they were purple, they are breaking the law by sneaking in here. Before you consider anything else (Human rights, "Civil" rights etc) that needs to be considered.

Go home. Use the time waiting for a visa to learn English and then come back legally and I'll have no problem with you

I bring up race with you, because you are a racist.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155545&page=6&pp=15

You said it

[Sarge]

I bring up race with you, because you are a racist.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155545&page=6&pp=15

You said it

According to you and your racist views

Look in the mirror son

[luckydevil]

According to you and your racist views

Look in the mirror son

Sure, Sarge. I love your logic.

[HSW]

Man, that was a real eye openning thread...

Thanks for posting that link LD.

That part about making fun of one of your troops because of

his heavy accent made me sick! When I first joined the Air Force

there were a lot of older guys like that. Thankfully most of them

have eithor retired or I now outrank them. That kind of crap

would not fly at all in my section...

[The 12th Commandment]

I want to become a bank robber. You know, to benefit my family. Sure it's against the law, but no one is really going to enforce it, are they?

And granted, it would be easier for me to rip off the bank if I worked there and tried hard to learn the system, but that would require effort, and who wants to do that when it's so much easier to pass the teller a note?

But did you ever speed home so your wife didn't let you have it for being late?

[Midnight Judges]

I'd like to see that poll. Not that polls are worth a hoot

Yeah, I mean, polls are only a reflection of what people are "thinking" in reality and we all know reality has a well known liberal bias. -Stephen Colbert's pre-emtive owning of Sarge. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

BTW, I saw your other post and I agree many service members are underpaid. How 'bout we raise taxes to give you all a raise? Honestly, I'd be fine with that.

[DjTj]

This thread has gone downhill in a hurry, but I'll answer Fergasun's questions here:

Honest non-divisive question.

What about the massive government expendatures to go through with the Guest Worker Program? It seems like USCIS can't even process the current load... how can we expect them to process a whole lot more?

USCIS is processing people just fine. There are some processing delays, but the quotas are filled in the backlogged categories every year. At this point, the reason people don't get into the United States is not slow processing; it's because our laws are keeping them out.

There would be some administrative costs to implementing a Guest Worker program, but it would certainly be lower than massive deportation. It is always cheaper to make people do something that they want to do than it is to force them to do something that they don't want to do.

Second question.

How do we guarantee that this program will/won't continue under the next administration? I have aunts and uncles that applied for citizenship under a program Clinton opened up in 1998, 1999... something about higher skilled workers. When Bush was elected, he stopped this program, and now they are in limbo... but still working here under a greencard. How come we aren't discussing a quicker path to citizenship for them? They've been here for a decade, and pay taxes....

You're right that there is no guarantee, and Congress and a President could change the law at any time. We actually had a Guest Worker program for Mexicans in the 40's and 50's that was terminated under the immigration reform of 1964.

As for your relatives, it sounds like they have H-1B temporary worker visas, which are not green cards, and they probably got them when Clinton and Congress greatly expanded that program in the late 90's. Depending on their level of education, if they can find a friendly employer willing to sponsor them, they should be able to apply for a green card. Once they get a green card they will have an automatic 5-year path to citizenship.

In my opinion, I actually don't really like the automatic path to citizenship under this new H-2C guest worker program - it definitely does feel like "amnesty" and I like the idea we currently have in our system of all immigrants going through the same green card process ... what we should probably do is create a new green card category that is available to anyone that resides in the country legally (under some combination of B, E, F, H, L, or other "temporary" visas) for a continuous period of like 10 years. Like the tax system, immigration is filled with too many special exemptions already, and some simplification would be nice.

[Sarge]

BTW, I saw your other post and I agree many service members are underpaid. How 'bout we raise taxes to give you all a raise? Honestly, I'd be fine with that.

IT suit me if they just quit taxing our pay. Kinda redundant, don't ya know?

[Fergasun]

Man... I'm sick of immigration threads.

I think everyone agrees the border needs to be secured and closed to illegals.

Those who feel illegal immigrants should be given earned amnesty feel that a guest worker program for some is a compromise (instead of a program for all).

Those who aren't fans of illegal immigrants think enforcement needs to happen now, and anything that allows them to stay in the country amounts to amnesty. A limited guest worker program for few, down the road is the compromise.

I think it's going to be hard to sell a guest worker program NOW to the enforcement crowd.

My personal preference is that Bush pushes enforcement up until he is a lame duck in 2008. Summer 2008 we have enough confidence to implement a guest worker program, and it gets done then.

I don't see how the government will be able to:

(1) Secure the border

(2) Enforce against illegal immigration

(3) Set up Guest Worker Program

All at the same time.

If we go through 1-2 years of strict enforcement (that will continue after the guest worker program is implemented)... then a guest worker program goes through, I'd be happy.

I need to see the Federal government enforce the current law before I trust them to enforce new laws...

[Sarge]

Man... I'm sick of immigration threads.

Didn't you post this thread? :laugh:

[Destino]

Didn't you post this thread? :laugh:

He did. lol :laugh:

[Cambl2Moss]

"3) We are a nation of immigrants (my parents and grandparents didn't immigrate)"

What tribe are your ancestors? After all, you must be American Indian then...

[Fergasun]

Guilty as charged.... but it seems like we get the same thread over and over....

It's like trench warfare during WWI.

I'm not sure the two sides will be able to come to an agreeable compromise.

[Fergasun]

What tribe are your ancestors? After all, you must be American Indian then...

Parents, American born. 1950s...

Grandparents, American born. 1920s...

Great-grandparents, Some American born, some immigrants 1890s...

25% Italian

25% Polish

25% Finnish

25% Welsh

[DjTj]

I don't see how the government will be able to:

(1) Secure the border

(2) Enforce against illegal immigration

(3) Set up Guest Worker Program

All at the same time.

Don't you see that it's actually easier to do those things all at the same time?

If you set up the temporary worker program, all the illegal immigrants that are eligible will show up at USCIS and register - that's probably 10 million people that the government won't have to try to deport right away.

Basically, I think Bush is looking at this problem and saying, well, would it be easier to deport 2 million immigrants or 12 million immigrants?

Even the 2 million number would be reduced a lot if people knew they could go back to Mexico and apply for the Guest Worker program. Giving some incentive for illegals to identify themselves and/or go back to their home countries will actually make enforcement a LOT easier.