Chad Johnsons Deal vs. Randel El's

[skinsn24]

I am trying to compare Chads new deal vs the deal we gave randel el. I have finals comin up so i dont have time to dig up all the deatails and would love if someone could break down randel el's deal, year by year. I have done it for chad and it is below. Here is everything i know:

Randel el -7 year (where the 7th is voidable) 31 million with 11.5 guaranteed (5 million signing, 5 million roster, 1.5 other bonus) and about 20 million in base salary over 7 years which is 2.85 a year but obviously is less now and more later

Chad-6 year 35.5 million

$5 million signing bonus, a $250,000 reporting bonus, a $250,000 workout bonus and a base salary of $2.75 million for 2006. that equals 8.25 million (in actual dollars) for 2006.

In 2007, he is due a $3.5 million option bonus, a reporting bonus of $1.5 million, a $250,000 workout bonus and a $2.5 million base salary. = (in actual dollars)7.75

3 million (for 2008), $4.5 million (2009), $5 million (2010) and $6 million (2011). There are workout bonuses of $250,000 in each of those seasons.

Below i listed how much cash is he is making each year in the first column, and the second column is my salary cap prediction. To get the salary cap numbers i took base salary added reporting bonus and workout bonus to that year. I took the signing bonus 5 million and divided it by 6 and added that to each year. Lastly for the option bonus, 3.5, i divided it by 5 (the amount of years left when it hits). The only i wasnt sure of was the 1.5 million reporting bonus in 07, so i just added it to 07, it might be spead over the lenght but doesnt really change much.

2006-8.25-------------4.0833

2007-7.75-------------5.7830

2008-3.25-------------4.7830

2009-4.75-------------6.2830

2010-5.25-------------6.7830

2011-6.25-------------7.7830

If someone can please break down the randel el deal that would be great. or if there is an error in my numbers let me know. I dont think we overpaid for randel el, as u cant determine anything like that untill u see production, but at least we can compare market value to a top 5, if not top 3 wr in chad

[terpfan]

Here's Randle El's contract breakdown per a post of Buddha's a while back...

2006 585000.00

2007 595000.00

2008 820000.00

2009 4000000.00

2010 4250000.00

2011 4500000.00

2012 5000000.00

Last year is voidable. Not all of that 31 million actually affects the cap.

[talk show host]

Comparing Randel El's deal to Chad Johnson's is like comparing James Thrash's deal to Santana Moss.' Chad Johnson is one of the ELITE receivers in the NFL. Randel El is a 3rd string receiver at best. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have Randel El, but he is not in the same league as a player like Chad Johnson.

[USDsk8ter123]

just imagine how much we would pay chad johnson if he was on our team.

[fwo40]

Comparing Randel El's deal to Chad Johnson's is like comparing James Thrash's deal to Santana Moss.' Chad Johnson is one of the ELITE receivers in the NFL. Randel El is a 3rd string receiver at best. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have Randel El, but he is not in the same league as a player like Chad Johnson.

That pretty much sums it up right there. :applause:

[PCRoughrider]

That pretty much sums it up right there. :applause:

No it's not. It's completely bogus. I believe the point of this thread was comparing the terms of the contract. The question has nothing to do with the players' relative skill.

It's a dollar question, I believe, not a skill question.

[skinsn24]

yes, the question is of dollars, to see if what we paid was market value. "Talk Show Host" you obviously miss the point that regardless of there skill the overall worth of the contract is almost the same, so what we are looking at is how the money actually breaks down to see if randel el got paid more than what a market value would be.

Had randel el only gotten lets say a million a year then comparing it to a 30+ million dollar contract would not make sense. But since both deals are 6-7 years with over 30million i think the comparison is fair.

[herrmag]

Well, obviously CJ is getting more money in the first few years of his contract than Randle El is. However, I think you have to incorporate the life expectancy of each player on their respective team. I believe CJ will live out the LIFE of his contract, whereas I believe Randle El will be gone after three years. Granted, this is all speculation, but just my :2cents:.

[skinsn24]

2006 585000.00

2007 595000.00

2008 820000.00

2009 4000000.00

2010 4250000.00

2011 4500000.00

2012 5000000.00

If those are the base salary, then prorating the entire bonus of 11.5 over 7 years would yield these cap numbers

2006--2.2279

2007--2.2379

2008--2.4629

2009--5.6429

2010--5.8929

2011--6.1429

2012--6.6429

Now these numbers may be slightly off, but i know the signing bonus is over 7 years and i dont know exactly when the other bonuses kick in, but if they are not over 7 years it will make the later numbers bigger, the the earlier years cheaper. Notice the huge jump in the 4th year, as the base salary jumps from under a million to 4 million. So you could think of the contract as a 3 year deal, all with cap numbers under 2.5, however if he is let go after those 3 years that means only 4.9286 million in bonuses have been paid, so a cap hit of 6.5714 million would hit us. What this means is, if u want to think of it as a 3 year deal, the cap numbers are 2.2, 2.2, and 2.4 and then 6 million in dead money the next year, meaning it would actually be cheaper to keep him for a 4th year then cut him. If he is kept for 4 years, and cut after that the cap hit would only be 4.9286 in dead money, which would save .9643 million if we had kept him for year 5. So basically 4 years is the deal and then after that it is cheaper to get rid of him. But the 4th year will be expensive and so will be the dead money on the cut.

Now to quickly address "Talk show host" trying to say that these contracts are not comaparable, notice how both chads and randel el's take large jumps in cap numbers in year 4. Also notice how close they are in cost 5.6 and 6.2 in the 4th year. So what have we learned? it is better to research before you make statements. What i also learned is that Randel el's deal is very cheap in the first 3 years compared to Chads but after that they are pretty close. I also learned that the year it saves us money to get rid of him is in year 5. However this is all without the multiple rounds of renegocaition that we love to do. please excuse my spelling

[Skin Deep]

What's your point?

If it's that their salaries are close, and we gave similar money to one of our receivers, I don't think it compares. Randle El is valuable in different ways. You can't compare with a receiver like Johnson.

[Skin Deep]

His market value can't be based on a guy like Johnson, in other words. That's delusional.

[skinsn24]

Lets think about Markets real quick, economics, supply and demand. The NFL free agency is no different than a labor market for a competive firm, say in sillicon valley. If a top employee lets, call him A, earns a salary of X and is twice as productive as employee B, we would expect that employee B earns a salary somewhere near 1/2 of employee A, or .5X. They may do different jobs and be productive in different ways, but if employee A is twice as productive doing it his way, then he will earns somewhere near double employee B. The point here, is that Chad and Randel El are both employees at the same position. And if a top employee, Chad, earns a certain amount, then taking into account what another employee, randel el, does u can gauge what his worth is in terms of dollars in the open market. The only unknown is their future production.

[skinsn24]

Skin Deep "His market value can't be based on a guy like Johnson, in other words. That's delusional"

This same concept is applied directly to the NFL draft, when all different guys from all different positions are paid based on what the top players are paid. That is why, for the most part, the top picks sign first and then the rest of the players follow, because the teams base there pay on what the player above them got.

So either your delusional or the whole NFL is.

[Mister Happy]

You can find Randle El's salaries at NFLPA.org

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=33056

Or anybody's for that matter.

Randle El's signing bonus is $5M this year. Then in 2008, he gets another $5M signing bonus and a $1.5M roster bonus.

So Chad gets $16M total in his first 2 years (if your numbers are right), and Randle El gets a little over $6M.

[skinsn24]

You can find Randle El's salaries at NFLPA.org

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=33056

Or anybody's for that matter.

Randle El's signing bonus is $5M this year. Then in 2008, he gets another $5M signing bonus and a $1.5M roster bonus.

So Chad gets $16M total in his first 2 years (if your numbers are right), and Randle El gets a little over $6M.

thank you for that information. That would change the cap numbers that i assigned to randel el, however i know that all that money is garenteed so, the time to cut him would still be about the same i beleive. All that would really change is that the first 3 years, become even cheaper, while the last 4 get even more expensive

[Gilgamesh]

Comparing Randel El's deal to Chad Johnson's is like comparing James Thrash's deal to Santana Moss.' Chad Johnson is one of the ELITE receivers in the NFL. Randel El is a 3rd string receiver at best. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have Randel El, but he is not in the same league as a player like Chad Johnson.

What does any of that have to do with the terms of the signed contracts? :doh:

[skinsn24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by talk show host

Comparing Randel El's deal to Chad Johnson's is like comparing James Thrash's deal to Santana Moss.' Chad Johnson is one of the ELITE receivers in the NFL. Randel El is a 3rd string receiver at best. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have Randel El, but he is not in the same league as a player like Chad Johnson.

What does any of that have to do with the terms of the signed contracts? :doh:

Exactly, some people just dont get it. The point was to compare the terms of the contract as we all know Chad is the better player. It is to see if the terms are in propotion to what each does on the field

[Seabee1973]

Comparing Randel El's deal to Chad Johnson's is like comparing James Thrash's deal to Santana Moss.' Chad Johnson is one of the ELITE receivers in the NFL. Randel El is a 3rd string receiver at best. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have Randel El, but he is not in the same league as a player like Chad Johnson.

same thing was said about Moss last year.

[skinsn24]

At first i was worried that we may have over paid for Randel El, not based on talant, but based on market value at the time. I beleive no one ever knows if a contract is worth it untill after the play goes on the field. However seeing that his cap numbers are about half of what chads are in the first 3 years, id say its right where it should be. The only thing that worries me is after year 3, when either randel el gets lots of money or a cut happens (would be after year 4) and large dead money hits us

[wskin44]

CJ's contract is not what it would be if he negotiated it as an unrestricted free agent. In reality he was under contract to the Bengals for four more years and the Bengals did not have to renegotiate at all. CJ would have made much much more if he was free to negotiate with any team, no strings attached.

On the other hand Randle El was an unrestricted free agent, so comparing the two contracts to determine if the Redskins got appropriate value is complete nonsense.

[skinsn24]

CJ's contract is not what it would be if he negotiated it as an unrestricted free agent. In reality he was under contract to the Bengals for four more years and the Bengals did not have to renegotiate at all. CJ would have made much much more if he was free to negotiate with any team, no strings attached.

On the other hand Randle El was an unrestricted free agent, so comparing the two contracts to determine if the Redskins got appropriate value is complete nonsense.

while i do agree with some of what you said, being that he was not a free agent, however, lets be honest here, Drew and Chad are not going to sign any extention that doesnt pay him what he wants, and locks him up longer. While he may have gotten slightly more in the open market, it is hard to make more than 16 million in 2 years at wide reciever.

To call the comparison nonsense, is well nonsense. The fact that he was not unresticted should be taken into consideration, but i do beleive they both play WR, they both play in the NFL, and they both try to make as much money as possible. Think about it, he could easily hold out, or demand to be traded. yes those are not great options, but TO did it and is cashing in a big pay day as Free Agent. but he can only make 21 mill in 3 years, or 7 mill a year if he does everything right. Chad is gonna get 8 mill a year in the first 2, regardless. So to think Chad would have gotten THAT much more is nonsense. Maybe he would have gotten a bigger signing bonus, but the deal would prob have been 7 years and much much smaller base salaries. Because it was a renegociation, the base salaries could not be changed that much.

Reggie Wayne got a 12.5 million dollar signing bonus, and will get paid 18.1 in the first 2 years, but after that the deals are pretty much the same.

So to claim Chad would have made "much much more" is probably inaccurate, more yes, that much more? Not really possible

The difference being that Chad has gaurented money later in the deal. So yes, in the open market chad would have gotten a little more money, but keep in mind that Waynes Deal was on the biggest ever for a WR. We could easily add reggie waynes deal into this comparison. It call the comparison nonsense, is nonsense, but taking other things, like the open market into consideration makes sense.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm still befuddled by the Randle El contract. Boolah for him, but I will never understand Snyder's theory of "Why pay $8 million when you can pay $11 million?"

[skinsn24]

I'm still befuddled by the Randle El contract. Boolah for him' date=' but I will never understand Snyder's theory of "Why pay $8 million when you can pay $11 million?"[/quote']

Haha i agree considering the bears were only at 8 million. But if you read the whole break down, by giving him all 11 we were able to keep the base salaries in the first 3 years under a million dollars each, and under a 2.5 cap number. If he had signed a 3 year 7 million dollar deal, it would be the same, except when he is released in 4 years we will have a large dead money hit