Immigration Legislation Compromise Announced

[The 12th Commandment]

Neither of these are sufficient penalties to ensure that there is not a repeat of this behavior in the future. We all know the employers aren't going to stop hiring the illegals and these illegals aren't going to stop coming to the US unless there is a serious penalty for doing so. But I think we all know THAT will never happen.

All right Mass I suffered through most of your nonsense here but, dude, this is just absurd and ignorant. Why do ignore the fact that when we create an immigration process that works, WE WON'T HAVE ALL THOSE ILLEGALS TO DEAL WITH. And while were at it, why don't you *complain* and moan about the politicians who allowed the situation to get to the state it's in now?

To use the "bottom line" analogy you're so fond of, making these illegals legal will cost YOU AND ME, less money in taxes. Period. I don't care to be bitter enough to want to punish the people who broke the law to feed their family at the expense of sparing criticism of the fat cats who allowed the law to be broken to line they and their buddies pockets. Your argument indicates that you do. While I may not agree with your tone very often, you do make valid points in other threads. Here you sound the like idiots you so often disparage.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

i really dont have anything to say to this: you just dug your own grave, lit yourself on fire and got shoot and fell into the hole with saying that kind of stuff, as far as im concerned all your posts have lost any once of credibility that they once had. contact the green berets, they love cold heartless people like you cause, well, they're the army.

You have to understand something, skinfan... I couldn't care any less what you or anyone else here thinks of me, my views or my beliefs. I'm not here to make people agree with me. Nor am I here to be liked or respected. Those are things I have no control over. What I can control is the fact that I will not edit myself solely because other people don't agree with me.

I'll respond to your military comment below.

and to your castle doctrine, if you examine it further i bet there are clauses becuase basicly what your sayig is that you can shoot anyone on your property and have protection from the state. there are certaint FEDERAL limits that override the stat anyway regarding these kinds of laws.

I'll be more than happy to take my chances with the state/federal judicial systems. Even if I an convicted, I'm certain that an 8'x8' cell will be a lot nicer than the accomidations of whoever made the mistake of trespassing on my property will have.

you are one crazy SOB and the army calls for you, if you really have this much hatred go to the nearest recruiting station and put your gun where your mouth is. and dont you dare come anywhere near MY beloved corps. we love honorable wariors, not sick phsycotics; thats what the army is for ( to all who ge my drift)

Been tried three different times. 1992 after HS graduation, 1994 after college graduation and Spring of 2002. In all three cases I was informed that my permanent physical maladies made me unfit for any Front-Line Combat MOS and I was unwilling to accept any of the Combat Support MOS' that were available.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

It appears that the basic gist of the discussion is lost on you. It will be much easier to prevent immigrants from entering the country if they have a legal avenue to do so. That's the whole point of the program. :doh:

They have a legal avenue now. In fact it's one that I find is not limiting enough as it is. These people choose not to use it because it takes time and isn't terribly convenient for them. To which I say... TOUGH LUCK!!!!

[Mass_SkinsFan]

All right Mass I suffered through most of your nonsense here but, dude, this is just absurd and ignorant. Why do ignore the fact that when we create an immigration process that works, WE WON'T HAVE ALL THOSE ILLEGALS TO DEAL WITH. And while were at it, why don't you *complain* and moan about the politicians who allowed the situation to get to the state it's in now?

So far as I'm concerned the LEGAL process we have now is, if anything, too accomidating. It's not tight enough. This new program would significantly loosen those rules, not tighten them.

I don't complain about the politicians who allowed it to get to this point because it's already at this point. That would be crying over spilled milk... a worthless act with no point to it. I consistantly vote against pretty much every national legislator that gets elected here in Massachusetts. That's about the best I can do.

To use the "bottom line" analogy you're so fond of, making these illegals legal will cost YOU AND ME, less money in taxes. Period. I don't care to be bitter enough to want to punish the people who broke the law to feed their family at the expense of sparing criticism of the fat cats who allowed the law to be broken to line they and their buddies pockets. Your argument indicates that you do. While I may not agree with your tone very often, you do make valid points in other threads. Here you sound the like idiots you so often disparage.

Making these illegals legal will simply be an invitation for the next batch to come here. I'm going to use a very politically incorrect analogy here but it's one I think is quite good and from this country's own history.... Why did the American Indians lose this country to white men from Europe??? Because they let the white man get a foothold on this continent. The indians around Roanoke, VA had the right idea. The indians around Plymouth, MA did not. If we continue to accept this invasion of illegal immigrants, eventually we will no longer have the ability to stop it at all.

[Larry]

I'm going to use a very politically incorrect analogy here but it's one I think is quite good and from this country's own history.... Why did the American Indians lose this country to white men from Europe??? Because they let the white man get a foothold on this continent. The indians around Roanoke, VA had the right idea. The indians around Plymouth, MA did not. If we continue to accept this invasion of illegal immigrants, eventually we will no longer have the ability to stop it at all.

1) So, it's all those liberal Mass indians' fault?

2) Oh, I don't think your point is politically incorrect at all. "White=bad, color=good" is practically the definition of PC.

3) It could be argued that this legislation proves that we've already lost that ability.

[FlyinO]

Its funny to me how most of the people that defend illegals (that aren't latino) most likely have a college education and came from priveledged households. They don't care because their jobs will never become threatened by illegals. Hell, they probably even benefit. Again, can anybody actually prove the propagandist rhetoric that they are good for our economy, and do jobs Americans won't? Don't confuse working for a substandard wage,in effect forcing Americans out of that particular job market, for an entity (that is breaking the law) with doing jobs that Americans won't do. This is the establishments wet dream to drive down wages in this country so as to better compete with other countries and bring in foreign businesses. Import cheap labor and send the good jobs overseas(as in India).It is a carefully constructed business model that screws workers for the benefit of corporations. Why else has't the law been enforced for decades? Our Congress does what those who can make generous campaign contributions want. I am tired of the middle class always getting screwed. Republicans and Democrats are anti-middleclass, which is evident by their policies that continue to make it slowly disappear and shrink.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

1) So, it's all those liberal Mass indians' fault?

To a degree, yes. Roanoke failed because the indians didn't help the settlers. Columbus never really tried to settle the continent. The Norse were run out of North America by hostile "skraelings", who I would be willing to bet were what we call indians. Plymouth was the first time that the native population assisted the invaders. Imagine the story of that first winter in Plymouth WITHOUT the aid of the indians. It ends quite differently, I think.

2) Oh, I don't think your point is politically incorrect at all. "White=bad, color=good" is practically the definition of PC.

That's true. I hadn't looked at it that way.

3) It could be argued that this legislation proves that we've already lost that ability.

I don't think we've totally lost the battle yet. If we offer amnesty and fail to punish the illegals and their employers this time, I think we will have lost the war.

[Larry]

To a degree, yes. Roanoke failed because the indians didn't help the settlers. Columbus never really tried to settle the continent. The Norse were run out of North America by hostile "skraelings", who I would be willing to bet were what we call indians. Plymouth was the first time that the native population assisted the invaders. Imagine the story of that first winter in Plymouth WITHOUT the aid of the indians. It ends quite differently, I think.

So, it's all because those liberal Massachutsets Indian's welfare for immigrants?

(Sorry. Had to.)

[Mass_SkinsFan]

So, it's all because those liberal Massachutsets Indian's welfare for immigrants?

(Sorry. Had to.)

Don't be sorry. You're completely and totally correct.

[Midnight Judges]

Again, can anybody actually prove the propagandist rhetoric that they are good for our economy, and do jobs Americans won't? Don't confuse working for a substandard wage,in effect forcing Americans out of that particular job market, for an entity (that is breaking the law) with doing jobs that Americans won't do. This is the establishments wet dream to drive down wages in this country so as to better compete with other countries and bring in foreign businesses. Import cheap labor and send the good jobs overseas(as in India).It is a carefully constructed business model that screws workers for the benefit of corporations. Why else has't the law been enforced for decades? Our Congress does what those who can make generous campaign contributions want. I am tired of the middle class always getting screwed. Republicans and Democrats are anti-middleclass, which is evident by their policies that continue to make it slowly disappear and shrink.

Uh, I guess these articles are all propagandist rhetoric. They are articles about construction worker shortages.

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/03/06/story3.html

http://www.tdn.com/articles/2005/12/26/top_story/news01.prt

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/21/AR2005112101357.html

It's fairly obvious why migrant workers are good for the economy. If homes were built completely on $28/hour labor, they would cost twice as much.

[LD0506]

Hey, here's a thought, lets just annex Mexico, make it 7 or 8 new states, and send all the Mexicans with landscaping experience there to wrest it back from desert.... then any illegal aliens have to trek that much further to get to where anyone on ES lives and will b***h about it

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

This is why I have a problem with this.

http://www.odmp.org/agency.php?agencyid=4830

This legislation is a slap in the face to everyone who has ever worked to uphold the laws of this country. And unfortunately I know people on this list. BP Agents have been killed and seriously injured trying to stop these people. And now they will get a free pass. :mad:

.

[FlyinO]

Uh, I guess these articles are all propagandist rhetoric. They are articles about construction worker shortages.

They are(see http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/mi.../06/story3.html., emphasis on bizjournal) There is a shortage because wages continue to drop, especially in the South. Damn, the free market sucks when it doesn't work to the advantage of employers. If paying Americans $28/hour is necassary (it's not, this is a gross exaggeration), I guess we as citizens might have to accept the fact that we will have to live in smaller houses. If you think that I'm going to feel sorry that huge corporations and construction companies cannot build and expand at their desired rate and cost, you are mistaken. If their demand for workers goes up, so should their wages they are willing to pay. They are breaking the law and circumventing the market (job) by hiring illegals.

[Extreme]

I see your point now Extreme and Mass Skins Fan. You're right, we need to put a stop to this so we can protect jobs for those citizens without a high school education.:doh:

i was an honor grad you toolbag, i also had an academic scholarship offer of $50,000 from maryland, a great college. yes i turned it down....why, you ask? i joined the army, and yes i believe serving my country is better than being a money grubbing all for myself prick

[Extreme]

Let me start over.

What I am saying is that illegals currently are working for companies that THINK they are legal.

Going forward, would we punish the companies for this practice. And if not, that will be the firt loophole exploited.

these companies most certainly should be punished, because when hiring foreign employees they are required under federal law to verify they are legal, by being given a copy of a visa, and verifying it through INS

[Extreme]

You really should quote who you are replying to. Anyway, the burden is already on small businesses. The problem is with the people who have fake documentation. Not the fault of the businesses. The fault of the government.

you're completely wrong, federal law requires the company to verify the info, not just look at a document and say ok:rolleyes:

[Extreme]

I have read all your posts on this thread and I think you should seriously consider starting your own landscaping company. There are many benefits to owning a company and you could get a government loan to start it, and you could use tax deductions on many expenses, including your vehicle and equipment. This way, you can pay folks to do your old job, not break your back, and make a hell of a lot more money. You could even work with your father and your sister and get their input. There are many knowledgable folks here at extremeskins that can help you with good financial advice.

No illegal can start their own company like that. You can. The opportunity is right in front of you. Go for it!

it would be great, and i did think about it, but the problem is, in the hampton raods area, there is a flood of landscaping companies operating without a license, that undercut the legit companies by doing the work for nothing. it's a double edged sword. the ****ed up part, is most of the people i've met running these under the table companies are retired cops and retired military, it's even more screwed up based on that fact alone

[chomerics]

To be fair, I know plenty of dems who have that same blame the world mentality. I think it is a weakness of character that isn't necessarily political. :2cents:

I completely agree with your post. There are two types of people in this world, people who see what the world is, complain about how they are screwed by society, and do nothing, and people who actually work to make themselves better. I like to think I fall in the latter catagory, but I know way to many people in the former, and yes, it holds no political bounds. My only point was it is the mantra sprouted by the right as nauseam and I bet Extreme has professed that viewpoint from time to time because of being a conservative. If it is good for the goose, it is good for the gander

[chomerics]

I've never claimed to be a person who believes in religion as the sole guiding factor in life. Morals & Values, yes. Religion, no.

I would hate to see the "morals & values" you hold dear when human life isn't one of them, yet money is.

Actually, while I lay my head down in Spencer at night, my time is much more spent in places like Worcester, Auburn and Springfield, which have considerably larger problems with violence. Probably at least in part because those cities restrict their citizens ability to carry a concealed weapon.

Yea, I'm suuuuure the reason is because people can't carry concealed weapons

[Extreme]

I would hate to see the "morals & values" you hold dear when human life isn't one of them

i'd hate to see your morals if you think these illegals have a right to be rewarded......i hope they get your job someday, you'll change your tune

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I would hate to see the "morals & values" you hold dear when human life isn't one of them, yet money is.

Humanity, for the most part, has turned into nothing more than an oversized virus. A plague of worthless sacks of skin full of nothing more than the worst possible combinations of Liberalism, socialism and every other disgusting thing humanity has ever come up with whose only purpose on this planet is to spread their contamination as far and wide as possible. They need to be popped like the zits on humanity's backside that they are.

As for the rest of my morals & values... you wouldn't understand them so I won't waste either of our time trying to explain them to you.

Yea, I'm suuuuure the reason is because people can't carry concealed weapons

Believe what you want. An armed society is a polite society.

[chomerics]

i was an honor grad you toolbag, i also had an academic scholarship offer of $50,000 from maryland, a great college. yes i turned it down....why, you ask? i joined the army, and yes i believe serving my country is better than being a money grubbing all for myself prick

So what right do you have to complain about making $8 an hour? You get to go to college if you want, it is your CHOICE that you did not, and you have nobody to blame but yourself. You can use your schlorship, or the GI bill and have your education paid for, why don't you use it instead of wasting bandwidth telling everyone how tragic your situation is?

[chomerics]

Humanity, for the most part, has turned into nothing more than an oversized virus. A plague of worthless sacks of skin full of nothing more than the worst possible combinations of Liberalism, socialism and every other disgusting thing humanity has ever come up with whose only purpose on this planet is to spread their contamination as far and wide as possible. They need to be popped like the zits on humanity's backside that they are.

As for the rest of my morals & values... you wouldn't understand them so I won't waste either of our time trying to explain them to you.

That is because I believe you have no morals and values, or your version of moral is completely different then 99.99% of the population's version.

Believe what you want. An armed society is a polite society.

lol, you are nothing but polite, and in fact are downright rude in some instances, but that is societies fault right?

[The Sisko]

i was an honor grad you toolbag, i also had an academic scholarship offer of $50,000 from maryland, a great college. yes i turned it down....why, you ask? i joined the army, and yes i believe serving my country is better than being a money grubbing all for myself prick

Uhhh yeah. Too bad they folded up UMCP while you were in the military and it doesn't exist any more. Big sacrifice there.

Still doesn't hold water. I paid my way through UMCP on my own by working and GASP! joining the MD National Guard. Who would have thought there was a way to do both things at once. Amazing really.

i'd hate to see your morals if you think these illegals have a right to be rewarded......i hope they get your job someday, you'll change your tune

I got news for you. Businesses are in business to make money. Nowadays labor is a commodity just like steel, oil or coal. Therefore, if a business owner can get greater value from someone else, your job is gone. That's obviously doubly true if they can get someone else that will work harder for less money. That's just a fact of life. There are no guaranteed jobs (or anything else) in a capitalist system. The sooner you realize that the sooner you'll start thinking about what else you can do with your life to move on.

[skinfan133]

I would hate to see the "morals & values" you hold dear when human life isn't one of them, yet money is.

i dont do it often but chom, :applause: