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Clutch the pearls: I agree with Czaban

Lombardi's_kid_brother

By Lombardi's_kid_brother
in The Stadium

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ntotoro

ntotoro

Posted
Posted
Specifically, you guys are right: Lloyd is a much safer choice than any third round pick. However, the broader question is accurate: why can't the Skins ever seem to discover/develop their own mid-round players?

Why do you ultimately care?

Why does anyone ultimately care, for that matter?

You're not gonna' get a proven guy cheaply, regardless whether he's from another team or a draft pick of our own making. Are you personally writing the checks for these guys out of your account? There's a downside to home-grown talent, too. You fall in-love with them and they end of leaving for more money. You're either gonna' pay one guy or another. That's the business end. There's no guarantee that a draft pick will pan out.

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gutlead74

gutlead74

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I don't like living in a world where he makes sense:

http://www.czabe.com/daily/

In general' date=' it's a postive take on free agency, but he does ask a few good questions.[/quote']

czabe is a jerk...he and b mitch are why i quit watching comcast post game. czabe could make disney world no fun and b mitch is a bitter middle aged man whom doesnt seem to realize he cant play anymore....every friggin week CP this CP that...it even looked like he was in pain when CP would come through big....WTF man i know you were listed as a RB but you were just a ST guy....:rolleyes: i would rather listen to Mann's stories and harvey's studdering at least they had some good things to say!!! please no tre johnson though.. he never made any since...how about Ray Brown?? he and harvey+ Mann again=postgame live worth watching again. :cloud9::party:

KJ needs to stay though and chick is cool:dj::soapbox:

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Elmo

Elmo

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I think the redskins FO and Gibbs looks at the entire system of how to acquire players and has a big picture approach to their planning of player acqusitions.

If I recall, Cooley was a 3rd rounder and he brought game in his first year. I think when the FO looked at the WR position they might be concerned about the quality of the players in the mid and later rounds. Therefore they played within the system and acquired a player they felt is still on the rise. Good calculated gamble. No different than the draft other than they spend more $$ but they also have more information as to Lloyd's ability in the NFL, not NCAA.

Even back in Gibbs first tenure, they broke the bank and made one of the first big free agent signings when they brought in Wilbur Marshall. He was a terror in Chicago, but they utilized him much differently in Washington to complement the team concept. BIG PICTURE.

I think we all have to understand that we all are assuming this and that and I bet Gibbs and company have a detailed plan that they are working within. I for one, feel the team is more stable than over the past decade even in this era of tremendous player movement.

Remember, there's the forest and there's the trees. BIG PICTURE!!

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

Posted
Posted
That's sort of the discussion I was trying to trigger with this.

Hines Ward was a third round pick. He did not demand a big salary until this year and even then it was less than what Randle El just got.

And frankly' date=' let's not pretend that free agency is anything less than a crap shoot than the draft. Brandon Lloyd has just hit the jackpot. What's to stop him from opening a record label and stop working out?

[/quote']

:doh:

You threw out an imagined scenario and treated it as if provable fact...to answer your question, though, just take a look over the past 5+ years of free agency, and tell us all how many players immediately changed their focus to another endeavor and "stopped working out" once they got a big contract on another team?...

Now compare that miniscule percentage to the percentage of 3rd round wrs who never contribute anything of significance in the NFL....

Still think FA is just as big a crap shoot?

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Darth Tater

Darth Tater

Posted
Posted
I don't like living in a world where he makes sense:

http://www.czabe.com/daily/

In general' date=' it's a postive take on free agency, but he does ask a few good questions.[/quote']

To find a guy like Lloyd in the draft will take 2-3 years minimum, even for Joe Gibbs and assuming that in all the years that the BPA at that draft slot is a WR. Finding talent is as much a numbers game as anything, Gibbs knows that and has said so on several occasions.

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Henry

Henry

Posted
Posted
That's sort of the discussion I was trying to trigger with this.

Hines Ward was a third round pick. He did not demand a big salary until this year and even then it was less than what Randle El just got.

And frankly' date=' let's not pretend that free agency is anything less than a crap shoot than the draft. Brandon Lloyd has just hit the jackpot. What's to stop him from opening a record label and stop working out?

In terms of continuity and cost, developing players makes more sense to me than buying them in free agency.

But I am clearly in a very very small minority here.[/quote']

It makes perfect sense to me as well. I'd love for us to keep our draft picks and develop our own talent.

However, we did just that for years under Casserly and Turner. How'd that work out for us?

The bottom line is regardless of overall philosophy, either your Front Office gets the personnel to build a successful team or it doesn't. Gibbs' track record, while not perfect (as if anyone's is) is pretty impressive when it comes to building winners. Even since his return, he has hit a lot more than he's missed, in both the draft and free agency.

If his strategy continues to work as it has over the past two years, I don't really care about the offseason style points, about whether he drafts this guy or trades for that guy. If it's the right guy, that's really all that matters.

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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
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:doh:

You threw out an imagined scenario and treated it as if provable fact...to answer your question, though, just take a look over the past 5+ years of free agency, and tell us all how many players immediately changed their focus to another endeavor and "stopped working out" once they got a big contract on another team?...

Now compare that miniscule percentage to the percentage of 3rd round wrs who never contribute anything of significance in the NFL....

Still think FA is just as big a crap shoot?

The point is not every free agent signing works out. What is say that El or Lloyd aren't the second coming of David Patten who looks like he is moving on to his life's work.

Adam Archuletta has a history of injuries. He could be the next Michael Barrow.

I am sure the Vikings were excited when Fred Smoot came to town.

Yes, it is a crap shoot.

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barefoot

barefoot

Posted
Posted
If this way works' date=' I will be the first to say that Snyder and Gibbs are right.[/quote']

If you go back to Gibbs Part 1, He and Beathard used free agents more so than draft picks to build their teams. They had some good draft picks (see D Green), but most was done then as is done now. Money scale has changed GREATLY though. :)

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Butz65

Butz65

Posted
Posted
Specifically, you guys are right: Lloyd is a much safer choice than any third round pick. However, the broader question is accurate: why can't the Skins ever seem to discover/develop their own mid-round players?

Pierce is the only real example I can recall -- and, of course, they failed to recognize his talent until it was too late. It would have been easy to sign him to a longer contract back when everyone was talking about him in practice. Once he was making plays on the field -- and an impending FA -- it was too late.

Cooley?

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

Posted
Posted
The point is not every free agent signing works out. What is say that El or Lloyd aren't the second coming of David Patten who looks like he is moving on to his life's work.

Adam Archuletta has a history of injuries. He could be the next Michael Barrow.

I am sure the Vikings were excited when Fred Smoot came to town.

Yes' date=' it is a crap shoot.[/quote']

But not to the same degree as a mid-to-low round draft pick...which was the point you were trying to get at before.

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TankRizzo

TankRizzo

Posted
Posted

Yeah...but imagine if we drafted them in the first round how much better they'd be....we could get someone the likes of Rod Gardner! Or how about the 2nd round, I bet we could get another gem like Taylor Jacobs.

Receivers are a crap shoot, Lloyd has proven to be reliable and he was on one of the worst offenses in the league. We know what kind of a player we're getting w/ him, the 3rd and 4th picks aren't that concerning to me all things considered.

...and this is coming from a guy who LIVES for the draft. I watch both days, I'd love to see the 'skins do more in the draft, but I can't argue w/ getting Lloyd for a 3rd and 4th.

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themurf

themurf

Posted
Posted
See Taylor Jacobs.. what's worse is he was a second rounder and he's still a bust.. Why gamble on rookie when you can bank on vet.. Better yet a 24 year old vet..

I was going to say the same exact thing. Not every draft pick turns into gold. Some turn into Mike Westbrook. Or Albert Connell. Or Taylor Jacobs.

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TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

Posted
Posted

Basically the Skins get their talent both ways...they just tend to want more certainty with their bigger-ticket acquisitions.

Like others have mentioned, we have drafted and developed contributors:

Jansen, Samuels, Cooley, Betts, Cartright along with Pierce, Smoot, Champ, and Lavar (while here). But we've added some great players to play along with them which is anything but a bad thing.

When it comes to trying to find a star, you have a better chance of getting that person if he's been in the league already. That is a fact. Too many players have been busts and too many have come from nowhere to be very good to think that there is any rhyme or reason to the draft.

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RIDETHEWALRUS

RIDETHEWALRUS

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Here is how you know Czaban doesn't know his arse from his earhole.

And you have to worry about any player who really wants to be a rapper. Never good

What difference does it make as long as a player is dedicated to football and by all accounts Lloyd is a very dedicated player. The fact that he doesn't spend every second of every minute of every day of his life lifting weights and studying film is healthy. It reduces the likliehood of burnout.

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