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Ryman of the North

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I like signing a few players to address needs through FA, but I believe you still need to develop talent through the draft. Depth is not to be underrated. If the injury bug bites, it could hurt a team like the Skins worse than others.

It's somewhat a roll of the dice. I'll bet there are plenty of fans of other teams out there that WISH their teams would roll the dice like this more often. Some of those same fans will loudly bash this FA spending. :)

FA is more expensive, so we'll be fighting the cap for years. But we've already been fighting the cap for years and it hasn't stopped us from getting players, so I'm not too concerned about that.

The cap continuing to rise will offer some relief by the time the predicted "3-years-from-now-cap-hell" sets in. People always forget that.

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In this era of the NFL... It seems like you draft a guy, pay a high price, train and teach him the NFL game, then when he gets comfortable... You loose him to free agency, right when he's really ready to contribute.

I would let other teams draft, train and teach on their money... then come in and sign them away to our team... right when they're ready to contribute!!!

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If you screw up in the draft, all you are out is a draft pick.

If you screw up in FA, then it can have cap ramifications that could affect your team for a few years.

So, you better be right in FA more often than not.

Considering that we are probably done with the big FA signings, there are still places on this team where we still need depth (OL, DL, CB). You may be able to find guys in FA to fill these positions, but more likely, you are going to find guys in the draft to fill in here. (Particularly at DL and CB) Veterans want to start, for the most part.

Plus, every team needs those cheap guys on the roster. Despite our actions, there is a cap, and there is only so much we can spend.

Jason

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DO WE EVEN NEED TO DRAFT THIS YEAR?

Ok point 1-we dont draft terribly well after the second round anyway.

Point 2- We havent just signed Old vets near the end of the line instead we signed young guys with lots of upside. free agency was like an awesome draft for us this year.

Point3-If we trade Ramsey for abraham our only weakness is depth at corner and one more dominant Olineman who are tough spots to draft for anyway.

I am normally a huge Draft guy and I believe that bulding thru the draft is the best way LONG term, however, Gibbs has always been awesome at evaluating NFL talent and at trading and signing guys who will fit (2 best trade in NFL history are Schroeder for Lachey and Oliphant for Byner.)

God its good to be a skins fan again.

The Redskins have drafted many, many fine players after the 2nd Round. In fact, a large number of the players who contributed to our Super Bowl Championship Teams came in the later rounds of the draft. In 1979, we drafted Don Warren (4), Rich Milot (7), and Monte Coleman (11). In 1981, we drafted Russ Grimm (3), Dexter Manley (5), Larry Kubin (6), Charlie Brown (8), Darryl Grant (11), and Clint Didier (12).

Concerning trading Ramsey for Abraham - Ramsey was a draft pick. Also, the two trades you call the best trades in NFL history both involved players the Redskins drafted: Jay Schroeder (6th round) and Mike Oliphant (2nd round, I think).

Here are some more fine players who were drafted after the 2nd round: Cooley (3), Dockery (3), Cartwright (7), Stephen Davis (4), Gus Frerotte (7), Frank Wycheck (6), Brian Mitchell (5), Mark Schlereth (10), Stan Humphries (6), Charles Mann (3), and Mark Rypien (6).

I would agree with you that in today's NFL, with Free Agency, that we may not need as many draft picks as before, but I believe that we still need the draft, as well.

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:yikes: I hear and feel all of you all. I'm a real Redskin fan....but realistic SB aspirations are hopeless....I still see Philly/ Panthers/Giants and maybe even Dallas standing in the way, with the biggest being Philly. Why? There way under the salary cap, first off.

Hey, in 2yrs we'll be 40 million dollars over the cap. can you explain that? And most importantly how we're going to fix it? So we're going to have to clean out almost the whole team in 2 yrs.And we'll still be paying players that are not even on our team" whadup wit dat?"

If some one goes down on defense besides the safety position, we're cooked, and right now we have yet to sign Clark.

Other than Randle El's mouth he seems to be a good signing but he will not see the end of his contract, in 4yrs he'll be 30. But he does have a ton of talent in KR/PR and has been the only one NCAA history to do what he has done....you can check for yourself.

I don't have time to go into it (his college stats) right now. But I know one thing, he talks a lot and first off not a good sign....some of the core Redskins must have been thinking to themselves like what the hell is he talking about. Santana, didn't talk that much. So he better put up higher numbers and a greater performance than Santana. I already don't like EL.

But we better not have someone go down OL/DL/CB and Brunell better not go down. Cause we have absolutely no depth besides RB. Normally when a QB (2d string) hits the market he doesn't last long. But we can't even get a 4th round pick for PR....come on now.

And then its the LA jinx thats going to be aroound for the next 30 yrs. So if it will make you sleep better tonight, then I'll say it: Okay, we're going to the SB in 2yrs, but only in your dreams. Now when you wake up the only thing you'll be reminded of is the Deon, Stubblefield and B.Smith days. :yikes:

Play-offs ahh yeah but a SB win in the next 30yrs :shutup:

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:yikes: I hear and feel you. I'm a real Redskin fan....but realistic SB aspirations are hopeless....I still see Philly/ Panthers/Giants and maybe even Dallas standing in the way the biggest being Philly. Why? There way under the salary cap, first off.

Hey, in 2yrs we'll be 40 million dollars over the cap. can you explain that? And most importantly how we're going to fix it? So we're going to have to clean out almost the whole team in 2 yrs.And we'll still be paying players that are not even on our team" whadup wit dat?"

If some one goes down on defense besides the safety position, we're cooked, and right now we have yet to sign Clark.

Other than Randle El's mouth he seems to be a good signing but he will not see the end of his contract, in 4yrs he'll be 30. But he does have a ton of talent in KR/PR and have been the only one NCAA history to do what he has done....you can check for yourself.

I don't have time to go into it (his college stats) right now. But I know one thing he talks a lot and fiurst off not a good sign....some of the core Redskins must have been thinking to themselves like what the hell is he talking about. Santana, didn't talk that much. So he better put up higher numbers and a greater performance than Santana. I already don't like EL.

But we better not have someone go down OL/DL/CB and Brunell better not go down. Cause we have absolutely no depth. Normally when a QB (2d string) hits the market he doesn't last long. But we can't even get a 4th round pick for PR....come on now.

And then its the LA jinx thats going to bae aroound for the next 30 yrs. So if it will make you sleep better tonight, then I'll say it: Okay we're going to the SB in 2yrs, but only in your dreams. Now when you wake up the only thing you'll be reminded of is the Deon, Stubblefield and B.Smith days. :yikes:

Play-offs ahh yeah but SB win :shutup:

honestly everything u said in the essay of yours is completely wrong. U dont see the redskisn being a superbowl contender. honestly with these signing what makes u think we cant win the superbowl now? Salary Cap hell i thought it was suppose to be for the last 6 years. It has yet to happen. Y could randel-el need to put up more stats than santana. isn't santana our #1 wr. Also, there are several other qbs on the market better and more experienced than ramsey, why would teams want to give a 4th for him? the spending spree of 2000 was full of young palyers and we had Norv. Obviously i can tell u know nothign about the redskins. Are you still stuck in believing we have Norval as our HC. We got Gibbs. 2 losing season in what 16 yrs of coaching? We assembled the best coaching staff in the league and we have filled in our need.

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The only way you could replace the draft entirely with FA is if you KNEW every free agent you signed would work out. Draft picks are less reliable, but they are FAR cheaper. Because picks are such cheap labor, I think you have to maintain a balance between FA and the draft or else you will ultimately overspend for the inevitable player that doesn't work out.

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DO WE EVEN NEED TO DRAFT THIS YEAR?

Ok point 1-we dont draft terribly well after the second round anyway.

Point 2- We havent just signed Old vets near the end of the line instead we signed young guys with lots of upside. free agency was like an awesome draft for us this year.

Point3-If we trade Ramsey for abraham our only weakness is depth at corner and one more dominant Olineman who are tough spots to draft for anyway.

I am normally a huge Draft guy and I believe that bulding thru the draft is the best way LONG term, however, Gibbs has always been awesome at evaluating NFL talent and at trading and signing guys who will fit (2 best trade in NFL history are Schroeder for Lachey and Oliphant for Byner.)

God its good to be a skins fan again.

The guys that we have just gotten are young guys with alot of talent and something to prove. It's better than any unproven rookie draft pick in my book.

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Why does everyone here think that buying free agents is going to solve all your problems??

I see, you're telling us this from experience with TO, right? And for the last time, why is it "buying" free agents when it's the Redskins? :jerk:

And to answer the main question, I think drafting is important but not crucial, meaning that it's okay to surrender some picks every year, as long as you replenish the youth pool either with younger free agents or undrafted rookies.

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u need cheap labor in the nfl to win. look at new englands run of 3 out of 4. they had rookies O-line to play in the big game when their veterans went down. when they were down to 2 cbs, they had gay and other rookie step in. this season they went 10-6 with a bunch of rookies and advance to the 2nd round. cheap labor allows u to have a season despite major injuries.

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damn i guess u forget about tom brady, jerry rice and all the other hof who fell near the bottom of their drafts. i mean i would not want any of those players. Drafts are were u get HOF that potentially change a franchsie for years to come. Maybe for the good or the bad of the team.

Got to disagree here. Not in principle, just in practice.

For every Jerry Rice you find low in the draft, there are 31 other players in that round who don't amount to anything but a bit player. It's reasonably understandable that we would forgo the draft this year in large part. We've already traded our first and third round picks. We're not projecting any huge gains from our position, and don't have a lot more to trade in the way of picks to move up.

We're doing the right this this year by getting some proven players who are still young and will have a shot at a good career with us. They're already developed. We don't have to suffer through their growing pains. Our lower picks will be good for finding some backup role player types who probably won't be with the team any length of time. We'll wait for next year, when we have a more normal draft, and get back into the young talent search then.

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honestly everything u said in the essay of yours is completely wrong. U dont see the redskisn being a superbowl contender. honestly with these signing what makes u think we cant win the superbowl now? Salary Cap hell i thought it was suppose to be for the last 6 years. It has yet to happen. Y could randel-el need to put up more stats than santana. isn't santana our #1 wr. Also, there are several other qbs on the market better and more experienced than ramsey, why would teams want to give a 4th for him? the spending spree of 2000 was full of young palyers and we had Norv. Obviously i can tell u know nothign about the redskins. Are you still stuck in believing we have Norval as our HC. We got Gibbs. 2 losing season in what 16 yrs of coaching? We assembled the best coaching staff in the league and we have filled in our need.

Okay I'll make a note to get back with you in Jan :yikes:

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honestly everything u said in the essay of yours is completely wrong. U dont see the redskisn being a superbowl contender. honestly with these signing what makes u think we cant win the superbowl now? Salary Cap hell i thought it was suppose to be for the last 6 years. It has yet to happen. Y could randel-el need to put up more stats than santana. isn't santana our #1 wr. Also, there are several other qbs on the market better and more experienced than ramsey, why would teams want to give a 4th for him? the spending spree of 2000 was full of young palyers and we had Norv. Obviously i can tell u know nothign about the redskins. Are you still stuck in believing we have Norval as our HC. We got Gibbs. 2 losing season in what 16 yrs of coaching? We assembled the best coaching staff in the league and we have filled in our need.

And here's one piece:

Yes contender but that's all; moreover, I find it somewhat humorous that a player judged so expendable by one team can be knighted by another. Yes, you will read that new coach Haslett wanted him back. Kind of. He was convinced otherwise.

As one who has watched AA ever since he has come into the league, I unfortunately have to suggest that Mr. Snyder just blew $10 million plus this year's salary. Not that that matters.

If a first down safety was that important, then it's a decent move. Archuleta is good at directed plays in front of him. Unfortunately for the Skins, that's all he's good at. Some have suggested he's also good at blitzing, but he's not. He runs by the pocket with very few change of direction skills.

Adam can't cover a TE if his life depended on it. The Rams have been consistently burned by mediocre TE's like Campbell and Johnson on AA's watch.

When AA is in space, he has few football instincts. Running backs can set up Arch with one move, and he's out of the play. I'm sure you've heard of the bad angles he takes.

I'm sure the better coaching will allow Arch to play at a higher level, but at the end of the day, here's a guy you gave beaucoup dollars to who I didn't want anywhere near a starting spot for the defensively challenged Rams next year.

Strange.

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I agree...going after Free Agents can be a great thing considering Gibbs is at the helm......Gibbs is different from the past head coaches we have had within the past few years....he actually knows how to win and has a game plan which he sticks by...so with that in mind....it makes perfect sense to complete this puzzle..... Gibbs will still go after later round picks...I just don't think Gibbs is big fan on first rounders unless he really wants a guy who he knows will be a perfect fit for his skins team.....Guys...Gibbs is different.....the day I dread isn't when a certain player leaves this skins team for more money.....it will be the day Gibbs retires once again!!!!

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I disagree that we draft poorly after the 2nd round. You have to remember, a big part of a front office APPEARING to have good 2nd day picks is consistency in the coaching staff. Until now we have had rapid turnover in coaching staffs and therefore personnel preferences. The people who perhaps unjustly pay the price for such turnover are 2nd day draft picks.

Second of all, I disagree that our only weaknesses are depth at corner and depth at OL. Depth at DT was undoubtably the BIGGEST need going into this offseason. When our team was perfectly healthy last season it was a superbowl contender... when it was missing any 1,2, or 3 elements other than DT it was a playoff contender. When our team was completely healthy except for even one of our starting DTs we were unbelievably pathetic. That was how significant our starting DTs were to the success of our team last season. Maybe by addressing many of the surrounding components we have lessenned the impact an injury to DT will have, but I still don't want to go through another season with so much riding on the health of both of our starting DTs every single weekend.

Now maybe this weakness doesn't need to be addressed in the draft, but my preference would be to use our 2nd rounder to get a good, young DT to put behind Salavea and Griffin.

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...honestly, what kind of post is this?! There are so many holes in your logic it's astounding.

:yikes: "I hear and feel all of you all. I'm a real Redskin fan....but realistic SB aspirations are hopeless....I still see Philly/ Panthers/Giants and maybe even Dallas standing in the way, with the biggest being Philly. Why? There way under the salary cap, first off."

Uh, last I checked, they don't give a team playoff wins for being under the salary cap (the cardinals would be in the SB every year). They have to spend it on good talent that meshes well with their team. I don't think you can say that the Redskins haven't done that--these are talented young players that understand that Gibbs wants a "TEAM FIRST" attitude.

"Hey, in 2yrs we'll be 40 million dollars over the cap. can you explain that? And most importantly how we're going to fix it? So we're going to have to clean out almost the whole team in 2 yrs.And we'll still be paying players that are not even on our team" whadup wit dat?"

40 million is a hyperbole. Yes, we spent money this week, but prorated over 6 years. You don't even know what the salary cap is going to be, so how do you know how much we're going to be over it? If you do some research on the CBA & the escalator clause, or how revenue for the NFL is supposed to double by 2010, or if the NFL network is going to capture more pay-per-view games, then you can see that maybe the salary cap isn't going to be the same in 2008 as it is this year.

"If some one goes down on defense besides the safety position, we're cooked, and right now we have yet to sign Clark."

Hmm, we had Arrington, Griffin, Springs, Harris, Bowen and Wynn miss time this year, but yet we still had the #7 defense. How come we weren't cooked then?

"Other than Randle El's mouth he seems to be a good signing... But I know one thing, he talks a lot and first off not a good sign....some of the core Redskins must have been thinking to themselves like what the hell is he talking about.

It doesn't make one iota of diffence how much someone talks (I actually enjoyed listening to him, but, again, that's beside the point). Production is the key.

"But we better not have someone go down OL/DL/CB and Brunell better not go down. Cause we have absolutely no depth besides RB. Normally when a QB (2d string) hits the market he doesn't last long. But we can't even get a 4th round pick for PR....come on now."

The Ramsey trade is totally unrelated to our depth (the staff likes Campbell's chances to contribute, & we'll get Collins signed as well), but if Minn. can't even get a 2nd for Culpepper now, you know why we can't get a 4th rounder. Year to year, it's a market economy for players, and if there's little demand, or excess supply, don't expect a lot.

"And then its the LA jinx thats going to be aroound for the next 30 yrs. So if it will make you sleep better tonight, then I'll say it: Okay, we're going to the SB in 2yrs, but only in your dreams. Now when you wake up the only thing you'll be reminded of is the Deon, Stubblefield and B.Smith days. :yikes:

Play-offs ahh yeah but a SB win in the next 30yrs :shutup:

This is a prime example of judgment being clouded by emotion...you're having a pity party b/c the Skins & Lavar parted ways, & you're blind to the fact that, despite a lot of good community relations & pr, he did not perform up to expectations.

He ain't Babe Ruth, pal...there's no Lavar jinx that's gonna haunt the team & prevent us from winning the Superbowl. I thought that belief in jinxes went out with bloodletting by leeches & the "flat earth" theory.

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