Barry Bonds Steroids book

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I am no saying race is the main factor...as I have said before, i think race maybe 5%, and the fact that Bonds is a prick and about to pass Babe Ruth is the other 95%. I am just not gonna jump up and down and trash Bonds becasue everyone is responsible for what happened, including Bonds...It was pratically encouraged by MLB...if MLB didn't want this steroid problem, a drug testing program would have been in place long before 2005. it would have been in place after 1998.

If Mark Mcgwire went through the same BALCO scandal, had the same court documents revealed against him, and acted arrogant about it the whole time...faced with being 6 HRs away from breaking the immortal Babe Ruth's record, this same situation would be happening.

[ccsl2]

THANK you!

My ass this is a race thing. People are after Bonds because he's an ******* and he's made significant physical changes in a very short time. They're also after him because he's perceived as a liar.

..and becasue he is about to pass the "beloved" Babe Ruth

[ccsl2]

If Mark Mcgwire went through the same BALCO scandal, had the same court documents revealed against him, and acted arrogant about it the whole time...faced with being 6 HRs away from breaking the immortal Babe Ruth's record, this same situation would be happening.

You are exactly right...but McGuire and Sosa weren't, and the game at that time was making $$$ and at it highest peak in terms of interest so (MLB, MLBPA, the media, and the fans) looked the other way...so if MLB and others involved can look the other way when they know it is going on, then why would anyone expect people to get all up in arms about Bonds using when we knew this was going on all along...the only reason they are after him is because he is about to pass Ruth...bottom line...and if you are gonna crucify Bonds and open some "Dowd" type report on him, you better open it on all of those people in the steroid era, not just Bonds.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

..and becasue he is about to pass the "beloved" Babe Ruth

What are we supposed to ignore Babe Ruth because he's white? Does that diminish his stature or something?

Why would we celebrate the hell out of Aaron in the 70's, and now, in the 2000's we are pissed that someone will pass a mark Babe Ruth doesn't even own?

Barry is the best player in baseball and I would not like my kids looking up to his overall person. I would LOVE for them to look up to black players such as Satchel Paige, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron.

[ccsl2]

What are we supposed to ignore Babe Ruth because he's white? Does that diminish his stature or something?

Why would we celebrate the hell out of Aaron in the 70's, and now, in the 2000's we are pissed that someone will pass a mark Babe Ruth doesn't even own?

Barry is the best player in baseball and I would not like my kids looking up to his overall person. I would LOVE for them to look up to black players such as Satchel Paige, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron.

I didn't say that...what I am saying is that no matter what record was in jeopardy (Maris, Ruth), if you know steroids was going on like the MLB did, then why wasn't there outrage back in 1998 like there is now that Barry is about to pass the Babe..that is my beef...what Bonds did was wrong, but you are not gonna get me to scream "bloody murder" when MLB turned the other way 8 years ago when they knew all of this waas going on...MLB is reaping what it sewed.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

You are exactly right...but McGuire and Sosa weren't, and the game at that time was making $$$ and at it highest peak in terms of interest so (MLB, MLBPA, the media, and the fans) looked the other way...so if MLB and others involved can look the other way when they know it is going on, then why would anyone expect people to get all up in arms about Bonds using when we knew this was going on all along...the only reason they are after him is because he is about to pass Ruth...bottom line...and if you are gonna crucify Bonds and open some "Dowd" type report on him, you better open it on all of those people in the steroid era, not just Bonds.

Okay so I forgot to add IF MARK WAS DOING THE SAME THING THIS EXACT YEAR. It would be the same darn thing.

[ccsl2]

Okay so I forgot to add IF MARK WAS DOING THE SAME THING THIS EXACT YEAR. It would be the same darn thing.

He and Sosa was going after Maris's record in 1998...where was the outrage then???

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

He and Sosa was going after Maris's record in 1998...where was the outrage then???

Understood. You are talking about a revenue scandal now. Now back to the race issue.

[ccsl2]

Understood. You are talking about a revenue scandal now. Now back to the race issue.

I have never made it a race issue at all...my point was that the main reason Bonds is getting BBQed is because the Babe is in reach...the fact that no outrage was shown in 1998 when Sosa and McGuire were going after Maris's record, or when HRs skyrocketed from 1994 on, is proof right there, IMO...in fact people were saying that the baseballs were juiced, when in actuality it was the players that were juiced.

[TimmySmith]

I didn't say that...what I am saying is that no matter what record was in jeopardy (Maris, Ruth), if you know steroids was going on like the MLB did, then why wasn't there outrage back in 1998 like there is now that Barry is about to pass the Babe..that is my beef...what Bonds did was wrong, but you are not gonna get me to scream "bloody murder" when MLB turned the other way 8 years ago when they knew all of this waas going on...MLB is reaping what it sewed.

Ridiculous. 1998 they were passing Maris, another white man. Your point is blown. Now in 2006 if anything baseball is up in arms because Barry is very capable of passing a gentlemen like Hank Aaron. Like anyone cares who is in 2nd place on any list, white or black. Babe Ruth is only still mentioned because of the signifigance of his achievements in his day.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I have never made it a race issue at all...my point was that the main reason Bonds is getting BBQed is because the Babe is in reach...the fact that no outrage was shown in 1998 when Sosa and McGuire were going after Maris's record, or when HRs skyrocketed from 1994 on, is proof right there, IMO...in fact people were saying that the baseballs were juiced, when in actuality it was the players that were juiced.

Okay. But I think that homerun chase took everybody by suprise. The most we thought was "MLB has to have rules; and Mac and Sosa take the best supplements."

I believe we were routing for Ken Griffey Jr. to break it 3 or 4 years in there. Baseball fans embrace black players. It was THE sport that had a huge effect on society itself. White people aren't "DOING" this to Barry because he's black.

My point is that, yes, baseball let a whole lotta stuff slide, but I think Barry shot himself in the foot with this one. His transformation from skinny, athletic looking skills-machine turned in to He-Man, invincible cyborg in a matter of a couple years. Not to mention it was in his 30's. Now that he's touching invaluble history BEGS for something to slap him upside his head.

You think the single season record was big? you're mistakin if you think it's bigger than the career marks.

Players played with fire, and Barry got too close, and now everybody is getting a taste of it. White Boy Victor Conte went to the big house because he fed all those (black, white, hispanic, whatever) players chemicals. But the speculation would still be there for Bonds because of his ridiculous transformation. At least Mac was always huge, and Sosa started getting big after his rookie season. We were used to their sizes, Barry made everybody's eyes boggle with his insane transformation.

For me, the bottom line is that Barry is in a situation that would beg for aggressive scrutiny for any player.

[Guest sith lord]

Ridiculous. 1998 they were passing Maris, another white man. Your point is blown. Now in 2006 if anything baseball is up in arms because Barry is very capable of passing a gentlemen like Hank Aaron. Like anyone cares who is in 2nd place on any list, white or black. Babe Ruth is only still mentioned because of the signifigance of his achievements in his day.

That's not entirely true. You ask a lot of people who's the greatest homerun hitter of all time and a lot of those folks will still say Babe Ruth.

[ccsl2]

Ridiculous. 1998 they were passing Maris, another white man. Your point is blown. Now in 2006 if anything baseball is up in arms because Barry is very capable of passing a gentlemen like Hank Aaron. Like anyone cares who is in 2nd place on any list, white or black. Babe Ruth is only still mentioned because of the signifigance of his achievements in his day.

How is my point blown...I am simply stating that I am not gonna get up in arms over this Bonds book now, because MLB and people associated with it looked the other way in 1998 when they all knew that McGwire and Sosa were juicing...they basically encouraged it...I am in no way saying that the reason that Bonds is getting BBQed is because he is black...he is now getting BBQed because he is about to pass the "beloved" Babe Ruth and because he is a prick...plain and simple...Babe Ruth is called the greatest HR hitter of all time, even though he is 2nd on the list...My thing is where was all of this outrage and investigative reporting back in 1998 when MLB and everyone associated with it knew it was going on...Bonds is the scapegoat for the steroid era.

[TimmySmith]

Bonds is the scapegoat for the steroid era.

I simply disagree. McGwire was the one essentially kicked out. Palmeiro has been disgraced. Giambi spent a year on the hot seat. All the while Bonds has been juicing and hitting home runs. One could say he has avoided true scrutiny because of the race issue, not the reverse. I would also say that among guys who are suspected of steroid use, Lance Armstrong has face far more accusations than Barry.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I simply disagree. McGwire was the one essentially kicked out. Palmeiro has been disgraced. Giambi spent a year on the hot seat. All the while Bonds has been juicing and hitting home runs. One could say he has avoided true scrutiny because of the race issue, not the reverse. I would also say that among guys who are suspected of steroid use, Lance Armstrong has face far more accusations than Barry.

McGwire kicked out of what? He only quit cause his body failed him. Giambi won points because he didnt lie, he fessed up and apologized. Also, I think Giambi gets more of a pass because he didn't break any big time records while juicing. The public wants to know that the records that are held are pure.

I disagree with the Lance comparison. Lance may have had more accusations, but the accusations against Bonds have been more vicious. I don't think anyones dedicated a book to Lance's steroid use?

After reading all this, I still think MLB is to blame for most of this. They knew what had been going on for years and still did nothing about it. People knew that roids had been in baseball ever since Boswell called out Canseco in 88 or 89. MLB continued to look the other way on the issue. MLB NEEDED the homerun race in 98 to bring fans back from the debacle of the strike in 94.

Part of me wants to say that Bonds is a cheater, but how can you cheat when there are no rules to go against? He just did what others weren't willing to do to go the extra mile.

Doesn't make me like him any more though. The guy is still a grade A douchebag.

I think the fact that he's been lying so much makes people want to see him fall, especially right before passing Ruth.

[ccsl2]

I simply disagree. McGwire was the one essentially kicked out. Palmeiro has been disgraced. Giambi spent a year on the hot seat. All the while Bonds has been juicing and hitting home runs. One could say he has avoided true scrutiny because of the race issue, not the reverse. I would also say that among guys who are suspected of steroid use, Lance Armstrong has face far more accusations than Barry.

That is true, but has there been an investigation into Giambi's steroid use, i.e. a detailed accounts of what he took, when he took them, and who gave them to him...in a book??? NO.

He has avoided true scrutiny because he is black?? He has had an ESPN Reporter, Pedro Gomez, following him every day for the last 2 years...has that happened with Giambi and McGwire? NO. Lance Amrstrong has faced more accusations than Bonds, please spare me. He has faced scrutiny, but not the the level on Bonds simply because of the sport that Armstronmg is in. Who in the hell cares about cycling other than when ther Tour De France is on?

[ccsl2]

McGwire kicked out of what? He only quit cause his body failed him. Giambi won points because he didnt lie, he fessed up and apologized. Also, I think Giambi gets more of a pass because he didn't break any big time records while juicing. The public wants to know that the records that are held are pure.

I disagree with the Lance comparison. Lance may have had more accusations, but the accusations against Bonds have been more vicious. I don't think anyones dedicated a book to Lance's steroid use?

After reading all this, I still think MLB is to blame for most of this. They knew what had been going on for years and still did nothing about it. People knew that roids had been in baseball ever since Boswell called out Canseco in 88 or 89. MLB continued to look the other way on the issue. MLB NEEDED the homerun race in 98 to bring fans back from the debacle of the strike in 94.

Part of me wants to say that Bonds is a cheater, but how can you cheat when there are no rules to go against? He just did what others weren't willing to do to go the extra mile.

Doesn't make me like him any more though. The guy is still a grade A douchebag.

I think the fact that he's been lying so much makes people want to see him fall, especially right before passing Ruth.

Totally agree. :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Spaceman Spiff]

Players played with fire, and Barry got too close, and now everybody is getting a taste of it. White Boy Victor Conte went to the big house because he fed all those (black, white, hispanic, whatever) players chemicals. But the speculation would still be there for Bonds because of his ridiculous transformation. At least Mac was always huge, and Sosa started getting big after his rookie season. We were used to their sizes, Barry made everybody's eyes boggle with his insane transformation.

Sosa used to be skinny...and McGwire...well, he wasn't always "Big Mac" either...

[ccsl2]

Sosa used to be skinny...and McGwire...well, he wasn't always "Big Mac" either...

There is a lot of selective amnesia going on with the steroids issue.

[ccsl2]

More food for thought on this Bonds situation.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/14051855.htm

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Sosa used to be skinny...and McGwire...well, he wasn't always "Big Mac" either...

Well at least Mcgwire transformed in to a monster when he was young. Barry was taking the juice as his great grandson was having its second child. And I don't know if you can find a more slouched and angled picture of Big Mac. In high school he was a freakin' giant SOB. We knew about the (then legal) andro, and that explained it all. Supplementing was apparent throughout all sports. But Mac went from 3rd in the lineup slugger to homerun king. Barry went from #1 batter to the all time greatest slugger in the history of baseball...making a huge leap in immense strength from ages 35 to 40.

Mac & Sosa = believable they were in the supplement market

Bonds = let's just show everybody how 'roids can make even an aging veteran have the best hitting years in baseball history. :doh:

[Thiebear]

***Bonds / Mcguire both admitted to taking steroids of one type or another = thrown under the bus... ***

Sosa: corked bat yes... steroids admission???

[Taylor 36]

Check out this from Dan LeBatard. Another angle on this whole Bonds Steroid Scandal.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/14043754.htm

Any one who would use LeBatard to back up a point is a moron. He is one of the worst so-called sports reports in the business. The man NEVER uses pure facts to back up ANY of his redicules accusations, he makes money off of turning everything into a controversy (esp. racial. See Nash getting MVP over Shaq last year), and is simply an ass.

So, you have chosen a poor person to put in your corner here. I know you want this to be a racial thing so bad, but it isn't. Bonds is a cheating *******. All of the records, some of which have just become public (which is why they weren't used in previous articles by the authors) prove that he was.

Big Mac was scrutinized big time, before this issue was made as big as it is today. It is a Congressional Issue now, for God's sake. Barry, if he would have come clean years ago, would be beyond it now. But, he is a lying, cheating, disgusting human being. He deserve everything he is getting!!!

[ccsl2]

Any one who would use LeBatard to back up a point is a moron. He is one of the worst so-called sports reports in the business. The man NEVER uses pure facts to back up ANY of his redicules accusations, he makes money off of turning everything into a controversy (esp. racial. See Nash getting MVP over Shaq last year), and is simply an ass.

So, you have chosen a poor person to put in your corner here. I know you want this to be a racial thing so bad, but it isn't. Bonds is a cheating *******. All of the records, some of which have just become public (which is why they weren't used in previous articles by the authors) prove that he was.

Big Mac was scrutinized big time, before this issue was made as big as it is today. It is a Congressional Issue now, for God's sake. Barry, if he would have come clean years ago, would be beyond it now. But, he is a lying, cheating, disgusting human being. He deserve everything he is getting!!!

I am a moron (name calling is so childish)??? Yeah ok. A response to that is not even dignified, being that you are basing it on me cutting and pasting a link into a repsonse from a columnist. How in the hell do you know what angle I want this to be??? Show me in one of my posts in which I said that MLB is going after Bonds simply because he is black.

How in the hell can someone cheat when there were no rules against using steroids back in 1998??? We all know that Barry used steroids, but so did McGuire, when he was breaking Maris's HR record...AND HE WAS CELEBRATED FOR IT!!!!

Just because you don't care for Bonds, does not dimish the fact that he did the samething that McGwire and Canseco were ALLOWED to do by MLB.

You can criticise Bonds all you want...but don't forget to go a little deeper in the issue, since we do the samething with others who commit crimes. If you think about it, McGuire started all of this mess with steroids, not because he "cheated", but because he was celebrated for it. So if the same people who celebrated McGuire back in 1998 (possibly you included Taylor36), are gonna go after Barry now, then I have a technical term for you...it is called a HYPOCRITE.

[Predicto]

McGwire kicked out of what? He only quit cause his body failed him. Giambi won points because he didnt lie, he fessed up and apologized. Also, I think Giambi gets more of a pass because he didn't break any big time records while juicing. The public wants to know that the records that are held are pure.

I disagree with the Lance comparison. Lance may have had more accusations, but the accusations against Bonds have been more vicious. I don't think anyones dedicated a book to Lance's steroid use?

After reading all this, I still think MLB is to blame for most of this. They knew what had been going on for years and still did nothing about it. People knew that roids had been in baseball ever since Boswell called out Canseco in 88 or 89. MLB continued to look the other way on the issue. MLB NEEDED the homerun race in 98 to bring fans back from the debacle of the strike in 94.

Part of me wants to say that Bonds is a cheater, but how can you cheat when there are no rules to go against? He just did what others weren't willing to do to go the extra mile.

Doesn't make me like him any more though. The guy is still a grade A douchebag.

I think the fact that he's been lying so much makes people want to see him fall, especially right before passing Ruth.

Best post of the thread, hands down.