tr1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 tr1, why do you bring WB up ? By your contention, he wouldn't have re-signed w/ the Eagles then, right ?... he would have turned it down and waited for his chance at FA to sign elsewhere, right ? You said that players were trying to get out at the first chance. So why did WB re-sign ? Why ? Very poor choice of an example to try and back up your made up point. Why am I not surprised. I think it's a great example. It shows how your team treats its talent. WB held his tongue for the most part, but everyone knew what he was thinking. And yes, he signed with the team...because it FINALLY coughed up the cash.(because, I think, it was ready to let TO go when initially not wanting to keep WB.) But, don't you see, with that cap room, they could have had both...they actually had a chance to have a content TO...but they didn't want to pay (or you might call it, 'they managed the cap'). Had we the money last year to sign Pierce and Smoot and not done it, I'd have called the Redskins cheap...but the cap prevented us from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpsEagles Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 did all of us Eagles fans not tell you, for months, almost the exact week that WB's deal would be signed ? yes or no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpsEagles Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 interesting... so you are saying that it was impossible for the Skins to re-sign either Peirce or Smoot ? Am I clear on that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 Anyone wonder if WB has ever heard of the fake dollars the Eagles build in to contracts to bloat the appearance of spending in one year to carry over to another? I'm pretty sure he has since he once bragged about it. . Art, just about every team in the league uses LBTE incentives. You should know this. The Skins did the same thing this past year and carried 1.1 million dollars over to 06 as a LTBE incentive on Rock Cartwright. Is Snyder cheap? Or finally, smart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 by "original thread topic", do you mean that tr1 just spews nonsense and the actual data and numbers back that up ? You really should take time to read my entire posts. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 did all of us Eagles fans not tell you, for months, almost the exact week that WB's deal would be signed ? yes or no You mean before TO exploded or after? I remember many thinking that WB was expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 interesting... so you are saying that it was impossible for the Skins to re-sign either Peirce or Smoot ? Am I clear on that ? Not without wrecking the team...that's the difference. The Eagles could have signed both, stopped the TO outbreak and keep all players happy. No, instead, they decided not to spend any additional cap on TO because the 'don't renegotiate' no matter what...well look what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 Man, he really gets you going.I happen to agree that it happens to more players on the Eagles, and I'm just going by past results. If it's any consolation, I don't think it really affects the locker room. How can you say that when the Eagles have the highest rate of signing young players to second contracts than any team in the NFL? Come on, Dock...smarten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Art, just about every team in the league uses LBTE incentives. You should know this. The Skins did the same thing this past year and carried 1.1 million dollars over to 06 as a LTBE incentive on Rock Cartwright.Is Snyder cheap? Or finally, smart? Bogus argument. No one uses LTBEs to the extent the Eagles do to create cap and undermine the CBA. That's why they have all that cap room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 How can you say that when the Eagles have the highest rate of signing young players to second contracts than any team in the NFL? Come on, Dock...smarten up. Link please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 Where do I begin, TE...Others have listed the players...I couldn't think of a number that came close to that with the Redskins...can you? When a player knows that there is money allocated to be spent on players under the cap, and management decides to save the money and let the player go, then yes, I believe the player is upset with their 'cap management.' Look at how the Eagles jerked WB around until they decided they'd had enough of TO. They could have signed them both, without getting close to going over their cap...am I right? Look, I say things that may get you upset, but I've been given a ton of baggage that I've never said. And quite frankly, I stil believe the Eagles are in part a major reason (along with about ten other teams) for the predicatment the CBA is in...Upshaw says it all the time...if teams don't spend what's allocated on players, the cap is a joke. I think he's right...and that's why I'll never criticize the Redskins for spending money....that's what they agreed to do with the union. But, no Eagle fan cares to address my point because I'm dead on. The Eagles way of cap management is the reason this crisis has occurred. Why did the Skins let go of Pierce and Smoot? Two young players coming off great years? Are the Skins cheap? Help me out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 Bogus argument. No one uses LTBEs to the extent the Eagles do to create cap and undermine the CBA.That's why they have all that cap room. Why is it bogus? Going by the contention of you and many others on this board, using LBTE incentives is not trying as hard as you can in the current year. You couldn't have used a 1.1 million dollar player against Seattle last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Dock... man. That's not what I said at all. I NEVER said that there aren't players who have left Philly. Every team in the NFL has players that leave for other teams... be it for more $$ or more playing time or whatever. I said that the list you all provided, was a list of players that were mostly released by the Eagles. They way the felt, after being released, has absolutely no bearing on what he said. It was NOT a list of players who left Philly at the first chance they could. What I asked tr1 for, was some evidence or basis for his statement that there are currently so many players that are just waiting for the first chance to get out of Philly. Perhaps a list of "current" players who are just dying to get out at the first possible chance? We are talking about two completely different things. Maybe you are right. I'm talking about veteran players wanting to go somewhere else to get their payday, because they know it won't be in Philly. How they felt before they left is just speculation, but we know what Duce, Trotter and Hugh, etc. said while they were waiting to find out. You can't bad mouth a team that you hope to re-sign you; you just end up showing yourself the door. Most players are just happy to be employed and on an NFL team. As for the young players, I don't think those guys ever want out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 Maybe you are right. I'm talking about veteran players wanting to go somewhere else to get their payday, because they know it won't be in Philly. How they felt before they left is just speculation, but we know what Duce, Trotter and Hugh, etc. said while they were waiting to find out. You can't bad mouth a team that you hope to re-sign you; you just end up showing yourself the door. Most players are just happy to be employed and on an NFL team. As for the young players, I don't think those guys ever want out. You know in your heart that a FO has to make decisions if they want to stay competitive. You just can't pay everyone. Especially if you drafted their replacement 2 years prior in the 1st or 2nd round. The Skins actually smartened up last year and followed the Eagles philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgirth Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 You know in your heart that a FO has to make decisions if they want to stay competitive. You just can't pay everyone. Especially if you drafted their replacement 2 years prior in the 1st or 2nd round.The Skins actually smartened up last year and followed the Eagles philosophy. Joe Gibbs follow Reid :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 10-6/6-10 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpsEagles Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Not without wrecking the team...that's the difference. The Eagles could have signed both, stopped the TO outbreak and keep all players happy.No, instead, they decided not to spend any additional cap on TO because the 'don't renegotiate' no matter what...well look what happened. Care to show me an example of where the Skins gave a player more $$, or re-did their deal, after the first year of the deal ? And I'm not talking about asking a player to re-structure to help w/ cap relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpsEagles Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Link please. sure, just as soon as you provide a link to anything, and I mean ANYTHING that supports your argument that there are all these players just dying for their first chance to bolt and leave the team. Which where this all started this morning to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 tr1 surprised me. He said the Skins would have signed Pierce and Smoot but didn't have enough room under the cap. So Snyder's cap management directly related to not having enough money to sign two of their young stars. And this guy made a thread saying how the Eagles FO should pattern themselves after the Skins FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 You know in your heart that a FO has to make decisions if they want to stay competitive. You just can't pay everyone. Especially if you drafted their replacement 2 years prior in the 1st or 2nd round.The Skins actually smartened up last year and followed the Eagles philosophy. I don't think so, they still went out in FA/trade to grab Moss, Patten, Stoutmire, Prioleau. The Redskins like to use FA more than the draft. And they have an owner that doesn't care if he pays more than top dollar. The Redskins FO uses contracts that are very flexible to manage the cap. Everyone assumes that what they are doing is somehow going to bite them in the ass, but it never does. Even this year when the cap looked like it was going to be 94.5 mil. The Eagles philosophy is not the only one that can be successful. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 I don't think so, they still went out in FA/trade to grab Moss, Patten, Stoutmire, Prioleau. The Redskins like to use FA more than the draft. And they have an owner that doesn't care if he pays more than top dollar. The Redskins FO uses contracts that are very flexible to manage the cap. Everyone assumes that what they are doing is somehow going to bite them in the ass, but it never does. Even this year when the cap looked like it was going to be 94.5 mil. The Eagles philosophy is not the only one that can be successful. That's all I'm saying. But you let go of Smoot and Pierce because you thought you could get their production from cheaper players via players already on your team or planned draft picks. That is smart. Why the Eagles get bashed for it is beyong me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 But you let go of Smoot and Pierce because you thought you could get their production from cheaper players via players already on your team or planned draft picks.That is smart. Why the Eagles get bashed for it is beyong me. Seriously, I think the Eagles get bashed when they do things like dick around with Westbrooks contract, when they know damn well that he's staying. They used the franchise tag to force players to stay. That has never worked out for them. It's an impression of strong arming the players, and giving them a low ball offer. I still have the opinion that the TO situation could have been handled better. I think these things are what drives the reputation. Plus, Banner looks like Mr. Burns. http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nfl/2005/0830/photo/w_banner_195.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 When have the Eagles ever used the franchise tag to make a player stay? They tagged Trotter and Simon and released the tag when neither would sign the tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 When have the Eagles ever used the franchise tag to make a player stay? They tagged Trotter and Simon and released the tag when neither would sign the tender. They've used the tag as a negotiating tool. And Westbrook's tender last year. That was insulting as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 They've used the tag as a negotiating tool.And Westbrook's tender last year. That was insulting as well. No one gave him an offer....how insulting could it have been. So now I ask you, if the Skins apply the same tender on Dockery, would it be an insult. See, this is a fun game we continually play in here. Skins fans deride the Eagles FO for moves they make and when I ask questions about similar moves the Skins FO makes, everyone changes the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpsEagles Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Should they have just threatened to send him a flat screen tv ? OR maybe when he's not looking, they could write $6mil out of his contract ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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