Gun Control and Liberals? Help me here...

[Midnight Judges]

I already pegged it as Rush, but reading it a second time, could be Savage.

Really? I thought it wreaked more of Hannity or Ingram. Care to place a gentlemen's bet?

Hopefully, 21KO will indulge us.

[21KO]

Liberals aren't against guns, they are against criminals getting guns legally. What is the big deal with waiting 30 days before a backround check is completed to see if you can buy an automatic assault weapon which can take out a crowd of 100 in less then 10 seconds?

I never said all liberals were against guns. I said MANY....rtfa. And if you think all you need is a 30 day check to buy a full auto weapon you are an idiot. A class 3 FFl is needed.

You seem to think liberals don't want guns, I like guns and I am a liberal. I also think that mandatory wait times are a good thing, I don't like the fact that Ackmed Muhammad can go to a local gun shop and buy a .50cal rifle which can take out a target from 2mi away.

Again, rtfa. And if you think the gun-hating crowd doesn't lean wayyyy to the left you're deluding yourself. No one said wait times were bad, and a .50 has never been used in a crime. Expensive, big, heavy. Not a good choice. And that's quite the racist statement, isn't it? Ackmed???

Probably the most ignorant thing I've read on here in months!!! You actually have the AUDACITY to tell us to leave a country we love, and think is turning to crap? we stay because we LOVE this country and we want to eliminate the scourge in power right now!!!

Calm down, son. You're frothing. I never told you to leave the country.

As do many liberals, like I said, we are NOT for getting rid of guns!!!! There are MANY MANY avid gun owners and hunters that are liberal. We want a backround check, and we want to eliminate the proliferation of guns being passed willy nilly to anyone at any time.

I want the same checks. And obviously I'm not talking about those liberals, am I? I clearly said MANY - not ALL.

We are no more gun hating then you are a nazi. . .wait, that may not be correct, you for all I know very well could be a Nazi, so that was a bad analogy. Put it this way, we hate guns no more then you hate your own children.

I may be a nazi, and you may hate your children....and again, I'm not referring to libs who aren't anti gun. Hell, I even capitalized MANY.

Ummm, taking up arms against this government is a ridiculous reason to own a gun. Maybe if you would could make a better analogy with a nuclear bomb, because then you could actually have some negotiating power. Come on now.

ummmm, I was clearly referring to worst case scenarios. And the last line of defense against a totalitarian government is armed citizenry.

Nice straw man argument ou like to propose, to bad it is patently false. Stop listening to Rush, he;s just a pathetic drug addict. . .why do you believe this crap?

You love that "straw man" phrase, don't you? :laugh: And what's patently false about it? It was a hypothetical statement. IF the SHTF, what are the anti gun libs gonna do? And I haven't listened to Rush in years. Well, I did have "Exit Stage Left" on the other day. Does that count??

Probably the one single thing you stated in this thread which is based on truth.

And you're the expert on TRUTH, aren't you? :laugh:

[21KO]

Generalize more. How can you knock the words out of someone's mouth if you don't put them in there first?

More slogans. Nothing says "'Nuff Said!" better that just saying "'Nuff Said!" Nuance and subtlety are wasted here.

Thank you - I think :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[ZoEd]

What exactly is the point to owning an assault rifle? Or a fully or semi auto weapon?

Defense?

Hunting?

Cause it's "cool"?

Because it's our right!

[Baculus]

What exactly is the point to owning an assault rifle? Or a fully or semi auto weapon?

Defense?

Hunting?

Cause it's "cool"?

What is the point for owning ANYTHING other than what you may need to survive? What about a fast car? You do realize that auto accidents caused by overzealous drivers in sports cars results in many deaths: Are we going to ban them? What do you think?

But, to answer your question, the reasons may vary. For me, the response would be the following:

1. They are, in fact, cool. Have you seen these rifles?

2. The engineering behind these rifles are amazing and awesome to behold.

3. A certain “Wow, look what I have factor!” especially when they make a nice, loud noise when they fire them.

4. They are fun to shoot and for plinking. I love shooting my AR-15 – it is a nice rifle to shoot at targets.

5. In case I DO have to resist to…whatever, I won’t be stuck with a shovel as my weapon of choice.

6. History – these firearms have had a huge impact on the course of events.

7. Did I say that they are cool?

8. It is my American right to do so, a right that the common citizens have struggled to attain for years.

Anyway, why the question about assault rifles? Do you know how few crimes even involve these types of firearms? Just because they may have a certain menacing appearance does not mean they are used by every gun-wielding criminal. They are not.

[Baculus]

If a fascist government did somehow take over this nation, I would feel much better if we did have the means to resist as opposed to the self-defeating thought of "We would never be able to resist if that happened." Sure we would - we have done it before. But if we are not armed to at least offer a token resistance, then it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Also, armed militias in rural environments can be a tough resistance to quell. This is, of course, purely hypothetical and "survivalist" talk.

Plus, I have a feeling that US military combat units would resist as well.

[The 12th Commandment]

What is the point for owning ANYTHING other than what you may need to survive? What about a fast car? You do realize that auto accidents caused by overzealous drivers in sports cars results in many deaths: Are we going to ban them? What do you think?

But, to answer your question, the reasons may vary. For me, the response would be the following:

1. They are, in fact, cool. Have you seen these rifles?

2. The engineering behind these rifles are amazing and awesome to behold.

3. A certain “Wow, look what I have factor!” especially when they make a nice, loud noise when they fire them.

4. They are fun to shoot and for plinking. I love shooting my AR-15 – it is a nice rifle to shoot at targets.

5. In case I DO have to resist to…whatever, I won’t be stuck with a shovel as my weapon of choice.

6. History – these firearms have had a huge impact on the course of events.

7. Did I say that they are cool?

8. It is my American right to do so, a right that the common citizens have struggled to attain for years.

Anyway, why the question about assault rifles? Do you know how few crimes even involve these types of firearms? Just because they may have a certain menacing appearance does not mean they are used by every gun-wielding criminal. They are not.

Right on! I couldn't agree more. I might add pure laziness. It made me buy an auto-loader so I coud shoot more and load less. :laugh:

[The Evil Genius]

It was more a curiousity Baculus.

I can see the point of a handgun for defense (or even offense ), or a hunting rifle. Or even a civil war relic like a muzzle loader or something like that.

I was just curious as to what the appeal of an assault rifle was. To me, it doesn't hold an appeal of history or "coolness" as much.

[PleaseBlitz]

I guess I am one of the nutty ones that thinks restricting the TYPE of firearm you can own is not the same as denying the members of a free society the right to own and possess firearms in general. I have never understood why you cannot do everything there is to do with a firearm with a hunting rifle and a shotgun. Home defense - check. Hunting - check. Attempt to resist a tyrannical government - check.

Im with you on this one. Though i prefer to handle all 3 of those tasks with my flamethrower.

[21KO]

Really? I thought it wreaked more of Hannity or Ingram. Care to place a gentlemen's bet?

Hopefully, 21KO will indulge us.

None of the above, actually. Independent thoughts from an independent mind. Not that you'll believe me.

How's Al Franken's deal working out anyway? Can you get him? I bet you're glued to set waiting anxiously for your next talking point. :laugh:

[PleaseBlitz]

If a fascist government did somehow take over this nation, I would feel much better if we did have the means to resist as opposed to the self-defeating thought of "We would never be able to resist if that happened." Sure we would - we have done it before. But if we are not armed to at least offer a token resistance, then it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Also, armed militias in rural environments can be a tough resistance to quell. This is, of course, purely hypothetical and "survivalist" talk.

Plus, I have a feeling that US military combat units would resist as well.

You LOVE Red Dawn dont you? :laugh:

[Destino]

Im with you on this one. Though i prefer to handle all 3 of those tasks with my flamethrower.

Next time you go hunting I'm coming with.

[Predicto]

What is the point for owning ANYTHING other than what you may need to survive? What about a fast car? You do realize that auto accidents caused by overzealous drivers in sports cars results in many deaths: Are we going to ban them? What do you think?

But, to answer your question, the reasons may vary. For me, the response would be the following:

1. They are, in fact, cool. Have you seen these rifles?

2. The engineering behind these rifles are amazing and awesome to behold.

3. A certain “Wow, look what I have factor!” especially when they make a nice, loud noise when they fire them.

4. They are fun to shoot and for plinking. I love shooting my AR-15 – it is a nice rifle to shoot at targets.

5. In case I DO have to resist to…whatever, I won’t be stuck with a shovel as my weapon of choice.

6. History – these firearms have had a huge impact on the course of events.

7. Did I say that they are cool?

8. It is my American right to do so, a right that the common citizens have struggled to attain for years.

Anyway, why the question about assault rifles? Do you know how few crimes even involve these types of firearms? Just because they may have a certain menacing appearance does not mean they are used by every gun-wielding criminal. They are not.

Good reasons. I myself think that Anthrax bacillus is really cool, especially in the "wow, look what I have" factor. And I truly enjoy my heroin.

[Midnight Judges]

None of the above, actually. Independent thoughts from an independent mind. Not that you'll believe me.

You're right, I don't believe you.

How's Al Franken's deal working out anyway? Can you get him? I bet you're glued to set waiting anxiously for your next talking point. :laugh:

I heard they were in serious financial trouble but I don't have XM radio. Franken is not on in the regular air waves in the DC area, is he?

[Predicto]

Calm down, son. You're frothing. I never told you to leave the country.

Oh, good job. "Frothing." See you are improving already. Next time try "whining" or "sniveling" - they are particularly effective against the libs.

And I see you have discovered the wonders that are the Tailgate smileys. They are good rhetorical weapons, no doubt. But branch out. The mocking laugh is good ( :laugh: ) but what you really need the is legendary D'oh! ( :doh: )

In fact, for full effectiveness, every post should have a D'oh. :doh:

or even a bunch of them :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Anyhow, don't take my criticism personally. I think you have the makings of a first class troll in you. Just keep it up, and be relentless. You've got them on the run now, "son"!

[chomerics]

I never said all liberals were against guns. I said MANY

You can't be this ignorant. . . can you??? You mentioned how many times. . . Rabid libs, gun hating libs and other stuff ad nauseum. If you weren't talking about "just a few" you would have said so. You were talking in sweeping generalities.

Again, rtfa. And if you think the gun-hating crowd doesn't lean wayyyy to the left you're deluding yourself.

Where is this evil gun hating croud you are talking about? I don't see them on this board. Are there wackos who want to outlaw guns? Sure there are, but there are also wackos who protest at gay funerals, and think the holaucast never existed. It is a very small minority, not the "MANY" you say.

No one said wait times were bad, and a .50 has never been used in a crime. Expensive, big, heavy. Not a good choice. And that's quite the racist statement, isn't it? Ackmed???

So now if I use terrorism as a reason for wanting a backround check I am a racist ??? Hell, you were the one who called yourself a racist. . .but then again, I guess it takes ont to know one huh :doh:

And BTW, there is a Croation who has been exporting .50 cal rifles outside of this country for the past few years, and he is not the only one. He is giving them to rebels, just what I want the terrorsits to have, .50 cals to shoot out soldiers with.

Calm down, son. You're frothing. I never told you to leave the country.

Again, you said "Why are you even still here? In the US?". . .and what the hell am I supposed to think? It is complete intellectual dishonesty on your part not even to admit what you are implying. It was a crap post, and so far your responses have been "I didn't say that" :hammer:

I want the same checks. And obviously I'm not talking about those liberals, am I? I clearly said MANY - not ALL.

So you are in the same position as the VAST MAJORITY of liberals then, read the opinions here to see what actual liberals think. Maybe, just maybe if you asked people what their opinion was, instead of trying to FORCE your ludicrous thoughts of what other people think, you wouldn't have gotten flamed.

And you're the expert on TRUTH, aren't you? :laugh:

Bring up a thread where I have patently lied, I have over 8500 posts, so you should be able to find one real quick right? Consider it a challange.

[21KO]

...and this is getting wayyy of topic, but that's ok. Assault weapons are cool. I have a Russian SKS made in 1954. It's beautiful. An M1 carbine made by Rock-Ola (yes, the juke box company) that may well have been in WWII and carried by one of our brave boys. That's history.

You want a more modern weapon? The AR is awesome. Non gunners will never get it, but it's fun firing off 20 or so rounds at a target as fast as you can pull the trigger. I don't hunt, but the AR CAN be used for that. Not the best choice, but it can. Any "assault weapon" can.

The AK is probably the best designed weapon in history. Light, cheap to make, trouble free, throw a handful of sand in the action and it still fires. Again, history. And in the SHTF scenario, which i think we all agree is highly unlikely, a good weapon to have for self defense.

Problem isn't the weapons, and the laws are in place. It's the lack of prosecution. Use a gun in a crime, go away for a loooong time. That should be the deterrent. Parole, early release = bad.

[Baculus]

You LOVE Red Dawn dont you

Yes, it was one of my favorite movies as a kid, and I still love the flick. :-)

One note, Predicto - you are correct that a shotgun and a hunting rifle can accomplish the same as an "assault" rifle, as far as hunting, defense, etc. On the other hand, a shotgun and a rifle can also cause the same death and destruction that those who fear "assault" rifles can cause as well. Anyone who is a halfway decent shot could be handed a bolt action rifle, and in a well-populated area, cause a lot of damage. And that is the point: it is the person behind the firearm that causes the violence and the crime.

Switzerland and Israel have a high ownership of true assault rifles, and you do not see the incident of violence from their citizens. (This is not including attacks by terrorists in Israel.)

[PleaseBlitz]

Yes, it was one of my favorite movies as a kid, and I still love the flick. :-)

One note, Predicto - you are correct that a shotgun and a hunting rifle can accomplish the same as an "assault" rifle, as far as hunting, defense, etc. On the other hand, a shotgun and a rifle can also cause the same death and destruction that those who fear "assault" rifles can cause as well. Anyone who is a halfway decent shot could be handed a bolt action rifle, and in a well-populated area, cause a lot of damage. And that is the point: it is the person behind the firearm that causes the violence and the crime.

Switzerland and Israel have a high ownership of true assault rifles, and you do not see the incident of violence from their citizens. (This is not including attacks by terrorists in Israel.)

So be honest. You are an angry postal service employee. Could you hurt more people in a short amount of time in a crowded area with a shotgun or an assault rifle?

And if a shotgun can handle the uses of a gun, why do you NEED an AR-15? "Its fun to shoot" is not a good reason.

[21KO]

Good reasons. I myself think that Anthrax bacillus is really cool, especially in the "wow, look what I have" factor. And I truly enjoy my heroin.

Great analogies :doh:

Sorry you got your panties in a wad. :laugh:

How's that?

[Mufumonk]

I've seen plenty of rabid libs screeching about how we're become Nazi Germany Redux, Stalin's Russia, Pol Pot's Killing Fields, the worst of the worst - all rolled into one. They're non stop. They see boogeymen everywhere.

Yet MANY of these same people will also rail endlessly about how no person needs a handgun, people should not be allowed to posess those evil "assault weapons", and all guns need to be registered with that same federal government that they claim is on the verge of rounding up every hippie that doesn't goose step the party line and gas them. All guns are evil, they say.

For the seemingly obssessively paranoid out there, and you know who you are, and there are pleennnty of you, how can you make claims of EVIL government creating future gulags and then want that same government to take away your last line of defense? That same government to have a detailed inventory of every weapon you own? If you see such evil, how will you protect yourself against it?

Why are you even still here? In the US? My God, from the things you write, the evil you see, I would think you couldn't stand it one more day. I'm a registered Republican - (that doesn't mean I think Bush is perfect, so can it) What am I saying? Half the people here don't even read the posts. They see a headline and rush desperately to reply. But even I, a kool-aid swilling, racist, black-hearted sheep bowing at the alter of W (according to many who generalize all Repub's) has a cache that will assist me in the event of a **** hits the fan scenario.

But you gun hating libs don't. What are you gonna do when the Empire you fear comes to subject you? Run to Canada? You know they'll have the highways shut down. Go live in the woods like grizzly man? You'd die without your daily latte and Huffington fix.

But besides the EVIL empire coming to get you, what if some terrorist group pulls off a big one? Power grid? Water supply? Bio or chem weapon? You saw how the fed handled Katrina. According to your own arguments, It wasn't the city or the states fault, it was the fed's. So if we have a SHTF scenario thanks to terrorism, and the general poulation panics, you're defenseless again. Relying on that same gov't that failed New Orleans to protect you from the worst case scenario, because you can't. Because you don't own guns. Because guns are evil, right?

I don't get it.

Unless of course, you really DON'T think Bush is the next Hitler, etc etc and you really just like to rant and rave because it's fun and you enjoy being prone to hysterics. Then it makes sense to me.

Just curious.

Hi. Tree hugging, latte swilling, salmon eating, hippy liberal here. I own 6 fire arms. All for the very reasons you brought up.

[Predicto]

Great analogies :doh:

Sorry you got your panties in a wad. :laugh:

How's that?

Son, I think you have a bright future here. :applause:

[21KO]

Hi. Tree hugging, latte swilling, salmon eating, hippy liberal here. I own 6 fire arms. All for the very reasons you brought up.

Exactly. You are NOT the type of liberal I'm referring to. Obviously it's hard for some people here to grasp that.

[Predicto]

One note, Predicto - you are correct that a shotgun and a hunting rifle can accomplish the same as an "assault" rifle, as far as hunting, defense, etc. On the other hand, a shotgun and a rifle can also cause the same death and destruction that those who fear "assault" rifles can cause as well. Anyone who is a halfway decent shot could be handed a bolt action rifle, and in a well-populated area, cause a lot of damage. And that is the point: it is the person behind the firearm that causes the violence and the crime.

A handgun may be concealed and carried around to commit crime. In fact, that's pretty much all it's good for. An "assault" rifle can kill a lot more people, a lot faster, than a rifle. In fact, that's pretty much what it's made for.

I would suggest that the real "point" is: assuming any limitations are appropriate (and I think they must be or we would all own nukes), then limiting the private ownership of guns to hunting rifles and shotguns is a reasonable societal tradeoff that both protects public safety and serves virtually all of the legitimate interests of gun owners.

[bcl05]

Guns don't shoot people. Vice presidents do.