Gun Control and Liberals? Help me here...

[Baculus]

Fine, how about this - for every rape that you show could have been stopped by the person having a gun (remember, just having a gun doens't stop the rape), I'll point out one person needlessly murdered by a gun. Guess who's going to have more examples.

My point is, that for some reason 21KO seems to feel that EVERYONE should have a gun. Just in case a someone breaks into your house and wants to rape your mother. Sorry, but guns aren't for everyone.

I don't see how certain gun laws are going to stop some of these murders. What I do see is the possibility of these murders being stopped if an armed party perhaps could have intervened.

I will agree that firearms aren't always the solution, and most of us who are pro-gun aren't suggesting they are the end-all solution. After all, we realize that most situations can be diffused with a little bit of rational, or settled in ways other than a shooting.

I have even been in situations where it could have turned out worse in the heat-of-the-moment: One afternoon a few years ago, in the middle of the day, I heard a banging from the rear my house; at first, I had no idea what the hell this thumping was which I was hearing. As it turns out, some neighborhood kids were banging on my AV fan. (God knows why they were in my backyard, banging away at the damn thing.) The thing is, I didn't even grab a pistol, nor did I think about grabbing it. I just stuck my head out the window, screamed "HEY!," which scared the crap out of the kids, and that was enough to chase them away (where I saw them run back to where they lived).

I ended up calling the cops just to scare them a little - I talked with the responding officer, who talked with the kids (and the parent that was supposed to be watching them). As a note, these parents hated me after this incident, since they blamed *me* for "calling the police on their children." Can you get that?!

[Mass_SkinsFan]

We may have to do the same in NC. Down here, you have to apply for a permit at the sheriff's office. That can take a few weeks until you get it. The permit is good for 5 years and that's what you give the gun shop when you purchase something.

Essentially the same here. We get the permit at the local police station (assuming the local police chief is willing to issue them). They cost $100 for six years. Depending on waht you applied for and what you are issued you are given a Class A LTC, Class B LTC, or FID Card determines what you can and can't do under that license. Each individual purchase does not require a new license. I have to show the license to the gun shop when I make the purchase. They return it to me at the end of the purchase and I go on with my life.

[DixieFlatline]

Essentially the same here. We get the permit at the local police station (assuming the local police chief is willing to issue them). They cost $100 for six years. Depending on waht you applied for and what you are issued you are given a Class A LTC, Class B LTC, or FID Card determines what you can and can't do under that license. Each individual purchase does not require a new license. I have to show the license to the gun shop when I make the purchase. They return it to me at the end of the purchase and I go on with my life.

Hmmm..not sure if we have different levels here. I just got two permits and wasn't told if there were restrictions. They cost $5 a piece and are taken away when you buy the gun. You can only apply for two at one time, but I don't think that means you can't have two in your possession at one time.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Hmmm..not sure if we have different levels here. I just got two permits and wasn't told if there were restrictions. They cost $5 a piece and are taken away when you buy the gun. You can only apply for two at one time, but I don't think that means you can't have two in your possession at one time.

Yes, we're talking about two different things here. You have to get a permit for each firearm you purchase. That permit is specific to the firearm you buy. That is apparently separate from your license, or in place of.

Whereas, I have a single 'Class A License to Carry Concealed Weapons'. I present that license, which says I am a legal gun owner in the Commonwealth at the gun dealer. The only way the state knows I've purchased a firearm is by the form the dealer sends to Boston AFTER the transaction is completed, and which the state promptly loses if what I hear is correct.

It would appear that North Carolina essentially licenses/registers each GUN, while Massachusetts licenses the Gun Owners instead. Personally, I would not be able to live in such a state for philosophical reasons.

[21KO]

It would appear that North Carolina essentially licenses/registers each GUN, while Massachusetts licenses the Gun Owners instead. Personally, I would not be able to live in such a state for philosophical reasons.

With a CCW permit, we don't need to have purchase permits. I have completed the CCW class, but have been lax in obtaining the permit.

Mainly because I transport unconcealed in my vehicle, which is legal, and also because I haven't had the desire to purchase any new pistols. Four is enough right now.

This may be semantics, but each pistol you buy is still registered under your name, correct? Serial number tied to buyer?

[DixieFlatline]

Yes, we're talking about two different things here. You have to get a permit for each firearm you purchase. That permit is specific to the firearm you buy. That is apparently separate from your license, or in place of.

Whereas, I have a single 'Class A License to Carry Concealed Weapons'. I present that license, which says I am a legal gun owner in the Commonwealth at the gun dealer. The only way the state knows I've purchased a firearm is by the form the dealer sends to Boston AFTER the transaction is completed, and which the state promptly loses if what I hear is correct.

It would appear that North Carolina essentially licenses/registers each GUN, while Massachusetts licenses the Gun Owners instead. Personally, I would not be able to live in such a state for philosophical reasons.

yep...we were talking about two different things, but 21KO covered what I would have said. I've been meaning to take the CCW class, but have yet to do it.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

With a CCW permit, we don't need to have purchase permits. I have completed the CCW class, but have been lax in obtaining the permit.

Here in Massachusetts you only have 6 months from the time you complete the SAFETY Class to apply for the permit. The class costs about $30 most places and if you haven't made the application within that six month period, you have to take the class again.

Mainly because I transport unconcealed in my vehicle, which is legal, and also because I haven't had the desire to purchase any new pistols. Four is enough right now.

There is no ability for ANYONE in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to possess a modern firearm without at least a Firearms Identification (FID) Card. There are exceptions for non-functional weapons and historical arms from I believe pre-1900. If you want the firearm in the passenger compartment of the vehicle you need a Class A (Large Capacity) LTC without restrictions (the most common restriction on these permits is: No Concealed Carry). Class B Licenses and FID cards do not allow you to carry a concealed weapon under any circumstances. If you don't have a Class A license, your firearms must be inside a locked case and locked inside the trunk of your vehicle (unloaded of course).

This may be semantics, but each pistol you buy is still registered under your name, correct? Serial number tied to buyer?

Sort of. When I purchase a firearm (handgun or long gun) I fill out two forms which are essentially duplicates of each other. One is a Federal form. The other is a State version of the same form. Once the purchase is completed, including the NICS check, the Federal form is retained by the Dealer and collected from them by BATFE on a monthly basis. The State form is sent to the Criminal History Records Bureau in Boston, supposedly to be filed. The Bureau admits that they cannot find the vast majority of these records and would take an immense amount of time to locate any particular record as most that they do have are stored in a warehouse. So for all practical purposes, NO the state could not tell you what firearms I own, or what their serial number is.

[21KO]

Here in Massachusetts you only have 6 months from the time you complete the SAFETY Class to apply for the permit. The class costs about $30 most places and if you haven't made the application within that six month period, you have to take the class again.

I need to look into that. It's been more than six months

There is no ability for ANYONE in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to possess a modern firearm without at least a Firearms Identification (FID) Card. There are exceptions for non-functional weapons and historical arms from I believe pre-1900. If you want the firearm in the passenger compartment of the vehicle you need a Class A (Large Capacity) LTC without restrictions (the most common restriction on these permits is: No Concealed Carry). Class B Licenses and FID cards do not allow you to carry a concealed weapon under any circumstances. If you don't have a Class A license, your firearms must be inside a locked case and locked inside the trunk of your vehicle (unloaded of course).

Wow...in NC, as long as it's not concealed, all is well. No permit needed whatsoever.

Sort of. When I purchase a firearm (handgun or long gun) I fill out two forms which are essentially duplicates of each other. One is a Federal form. The other is a State version of the same form. Once the purchase is completed, including the NICS check, the Federal form is retained by the Dealer and collected from them by BATFE on a monthly basis. The State form is sent to the Criminal History Records Bureau in Boston, supposedly to be filed. The Bureau admits that they cannot find the vast majority of these records and would take an immense amount of time to locate any particular record as most that they do have are stored in a warehouse. So for all practical purposes, NO the state could not tell you what firearms I own, or what their serial number is.

That's a little scary. I don't have a problem with a weapon that can be traced to its original purchaser.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I need to look into that. It's been more than six months.

That's going to vary from state to state, so what NC does may be very different than what MA does in that regard.

Wow...in NC, as long as it's not concealed, all is well. No permit needed whatsoever.

As I said, here there is essentially no right to possess anything... not in your car, or home, or on your person, without a LTC or FID card. Even WITH the Class A license, the firearm must be under my control in the vehicle. Which means, if there is a non license-holder in the car, I have to have it directly on my person. Then again, I generally have it on my belt, concealed, anywhere I go with it.

That's a little scary. I don't have a problem with a weapon that can be traced to its original purchaser.

Actually, I'd be much more concerned if the State DID have those records in order. We have a State government here that some day soon WILL outlaw the ownership of firearms in the Commonwealth. It's just a matter of time. Without those records in any useable order it's going to be tougher for the state to track down who owns what. They'll have the list of who has licenses, but not what they own (or don't own).

[Guest Rafterman]

I just heard that the Commissioners office is going to make it an offense for any player to possess a firearm, Roger Godell meet Wayne Lapierre.

[SnyderShrugged]

I need to look into that. It's been more than six months

Wow...in NC, as long as it's not concealed, all is well. No permit needed whatsoever.

That's a little scary. I don't have a problem with a weapon that can be traced to its original purchaser.

In Kentucky, I was able to buy a handgun 6 months after I established residency. No CCW needed to carry, but I had to take a one day class to be able to carry concealed.

The class was mostly safety and legal topic, but we also went over Handgun care and cleaning. Lastly, we had to qualify shooting at a target at 10 yards.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

The class was mostly safety and legal topic, but we also went over Handgun care and cleaning. Lastly, we had to qualify shooting at a target at 10 yards.

Here you need the Safety class to be able to do pretty much anything with a firearm. It's generally a 2-3 hour class focusing entirely on Safety and Legal issues. There is some rudimentary firearms terminology included as well, but not much; and you will not touch a firearm, never mind discharge one in the course of the class.

[The 12th Commandment]

Reading you guys go back and forth, I'm reminded why I choose to live out west. You only need training if you under 16 here, hunter's training it's called. We have the federal waiting period for hundguns, but rifles and shotguns you can just go to the store and buy. They do write down your info on a form that they submit to the feds but there's no state anything. You have to take classes and pay a license fee for concealed carry, but that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

It seems high population density and draconian fire arm laws go hand in hand. I don't care for either one.

[ddpls]

What exactly is the point to owning an assault rifle? Or a fully or semi auto weapon?

Defense?

Hunting?

Cause it's "cool"?

Beacuse I can! That should be enough. I am sure you don't like someone telling you what kind of car you can own an if you can drive it! You don't have to like guns or own one, but who on this green earth give you or anyone else the right to tell me I can own one? This country was founded on principles of freedom of choice and freedom of living life as you see fit. When someone attacks you with whatever what are you going to do??? Crawl up in a ball? Or you going to threaten a criminal with saying your going to caLL the cops? ARe you going to create more laws banning people right to protect themselves? I am sure once you get the right law into place all the criminals will suddenly comply. That is the problem The anti-gun people haven't created the correct law yet that will get all criminals to conform. Get off the emotions and think it through once. If you have the right to not like guns and not want to own one, I have the equal right to like them and own them. Arrogant people think I have to conform to their way of life because they don't like something. What crap! Oh and to the guy on the first page of posting here that says the range of a .50 cal is 2 miles. the effective range of a .50 cal is just over 1 mile it is 1.136+/- miles. and for those who think a .50 cal can bring down a plane. Think back to WWII first of all how hard is it to even hit a plane moving at a few hundred miles an hour? How many planes fly at 1.136 miles above the earth? that is 6000 feet. and one round if lucky enough to hit a plane sure isn't goning to bring it down. It is the typical, lets get everyone emotional so they don't think topic! It isn't the guns people. Lets start severly punnishing the people who do commit crimes. It is personal responsibility!!! Oh wait, we can't do that, people can't stand being harsh on criminals, they are just severly mis-understood or they had a bad childhood, they didn't really want to be a criminal. It is societies fault.

[ddpls]

You're right of course, reality often trumps philosophy... that's why those who hold to their philosophy despite the threat are so revered... Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., etc. Not that I'm equating myself with folks like that.

I do think I would rather be killed than to kill, but that I probably would fight to save someone else.

The closest I've ever come to a situation like this was when I was being threatened by a bunch of guys due to my religion. Luckily for me, I worked at a Psych hospital and was able to keep myself together. I am pretty sure that my calm unnerved them. If I had had a gun and pulled it what would have been the result. Would they flee? Would they rush me? Would it have turned out a number of them had guns? Would they have run and come back later with guns? A gun isn't necessarily a solution.

That is the problem, if you pull a gun on someone, you better be well prepared to use it. Your thought process is lacking. You may be one who doens't think they should take someone else's life to preserve their own. And that is fine, but I and several others don't feel that way. If I am in a situation which someone else has clearly put me into, to preserve my life by having to take theirs? I am surely not even going to hesitate. They should know that is the consequence for their actions. They now have to accept their responsibility for what they did. And in that lies the solution. The criminal element being forced to accept the PROPER responsibility for their deeds!

[joe]

I've been driven pretty far left of center by Bush's incompetence and I own rifles and pistols. I have not read any post but the initial one, but just needed to say that you don't know what you are talking about. Pol Pot's regime?? Who have you known who has compared the US to Pol Pot's regime?

[Burgold]

I've been driven pretty far left of center by Bush's incompetence and I own rifles and pistols. I have not read any post but the initial one, but just needed to say that you don't know what you are talking about. Pol Pot's regime?? Who have you known who has compared the US to Pol Pot's regime?

Some of the marijuana smokers have been talking about smoking really long joints they've been calling polls. Maybe that's the Pol Pot he's mixing up?