Cdowwe Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 NEW DELHI, India (CNN) -- India and the United States have sealed a landmark nuclear agreement during U.S. President George W. Bush's visit to the world's largest democracy. "We have concluded an historic agreement today on nuclear power," Bush told a news conference with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi on Thursday. The pact calls for the United States to provide expertise and fuel, and for India to open its civilian projects to international inspectors. In just seven years, the nuclear issue -- once the single largest irritant in India-U.S. relations -- is now the centerpiece of what both countries describe as a "strategic partnership." The deal still requires approval from the U.S. Congress, where skeptical lawmakers have complained it could undermine the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty by letting India bypass it. The pact comes as Bush tries to reduce his country's dependence on fossil fuels, and as India's booming economy needs more power to fuel its growth. India is emerging as an economic powerhouse, with its gross domestic product (GDP) forecast to grow at 8.1 percent in 2006 and its stock market trading at record highs. Aware that a growing India can buy even more goods, and facing his lowest ever approval ratings at home, Bush is anxious to help. But many Indian scientists and others in the nuclear establishment fear it will erode India's military ambitions. Aware of their concerns, Singh has pleaded for their support. "There has been no erosion of the integrity of our nuclear doctrine either in terms of current or future capabilities," he said earlier. Despite the potential political fallout from the deal, both sides have much to gain, one analyst said. "The essence of this strategic partnership is to provide a countervailing influence to China ... to act as a restraint on the exercise of Chinese power," security analyst Brahma Chellaney told CNN. China on Thursday was quick to respond. Any pact "must meet the requirements and provisions of the nuclear nonproliferation regime and the obligations undertaken by all countries concerned," The Associated Press quoted Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang as saying. Blasts mar trip As Bush visited India on day two of his South Asia trip, blasts killed at least four people near the U.S. Consulate in the Pakistani city of Karachi, police said. (Full story) Bush is set to travel to Pakistan on Saturday. On Thursday, Bush underscored his support for that country, a key U.S. ally in the fight against terrorism. (See the Bush itinerary) "Terrorists and killers are not going to prevent me from going to Pakistan," Bush said. One U.S. citizen -- a foreign service officer -- was among those killed in the bombings, Bush said. Despite their alliance, many in Washington want to see Islamabad make stronger efforts to dismantle terrorist training camps. Bush said he would talk to Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf about reports of militants crossing the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. "These infiltrations are causing harm to friends, allies, and cause harm to U.S. troops," Bush said. "It's an ongoing topic of conversation." Bush arrived in the Indian capital New Delhi on Wednesday after a surprise visit to Afghanistan, where thousands of U.S. troops have been based since helping oust the Taliban regime following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. (Full story) Ongoing protests against Bush's India visit reflect the nation's mixed feelings about the United States -- a country seen as a loyal friend by some and a global bully by others. On Wednesday, nearly 150,000 protesters, most of them Muslims, demonstrated in New Delhi. However, only a few thousand protesters -- a mix of social and environmental groups -- took part in Thursday's demonstrations. "Bush is a killer," one sign read. Security was extremely tight throughout the city, with roads cordoned off and police out in strong numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Can someone explain to me just what the hell the point of all this is? I can see it has something to do with China but I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly how this helps us. I'm not doubting it does - just looking for a "haven't had my coffee yet" version of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Can someone explain to me just what the hell the point of all this is? I can see it has something to do with China but I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly how this helps us. I'm not doubting it does - just looking for a "haven't had my coffee yet" version of the story. I think there are a few points: 1) Making nice with an emerging economic power. 2) Giving us and the world a little more insight into their nuclear programs. 3) Sending a not too subtle message to China saying "Don't forget, we've got some influence in this part of the world too." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I think there are a few points:1) Making nice with an emerging economic power. 2) Giving us and the world a little more insight into their nuclear programs. 3) Sending a not too subtle message to China saying "Don't forget, we've got some influence in this part of the world too." Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Thank you No problem...I also meant to say that, once all the details come out it would not surprise me at all if this was shot down because of the nuclear proliferation treaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 What kind of damage has King W done now??? A nuclear agreement, has he sold our nukes to India? Just being a wiseass what with the port deal and the arabs I thought a smartass comment would break the tension between the Bush loving koolaiders and the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 This is the best move so far of the entire Bush white house tenure....I've long called for closer ties with India....they are "democracy", former colony of the British and they too have a lot of problems with Islamic fundamentalists......In addition they are an emerging economic powerhouse with over 1.5 billion citizens.....in the long run closer ties with India will benefit us tremendously.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I think there are a few points:1) Making nice with an emerging economic power. 2) Giving us and the world a little more insight into their nuclear programs. 3) Sending a not too subtle message to China saying "Don't forget, we've got some influence in this part of the world too." Yeah, those are factors. However, the biggest reason IMO is because the Russians and Chinese are forming stronger ties in an attempt to counter US power. We have the economic and military muscle but not the man power. Forming an alliance with India gives us that now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 This is the best move so far of the entire Bush white house tenure....I've long called for closer ties with India....they are "democracy", former colony of the British and they too have a lot of problems with Islamic fundamentalists......In addition they are an emerging economic powerhouse with over 1.5 billion citizens.....in the long run closer ties with India will benefit us tremendously.. Did you know the US has the fastest growing population in the World? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 What kind of damage has King W done now??? A nuclear agreement, has he sold our nukes to India? Just being a wiseass what with the port deal and the arabs I thought a smartass comment would break the tension between the Bush loving koolaiders and the rest of us. I see you have been enjoying a large glass of kool-aid yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Yeah, those are factors.However, the biggest reason IMO is because the Russians and Chinese are forming stronger ties in an attempt to counter US power. We have the economic and military muscle but not the man power. Forming an alliance with India gives us that now... hence #3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Did you know the US has the fastest growing population in the World? Link please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 hence #3... We already have influence in that part of the world. We have strong ties with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 We already have influence in that part of the world. We have strong ties with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, etc. But no real military influence (except from our own military). None of the countries you mentioned are threats militarily to China...India is. We're saying the same thing...I'll try and be a little more specific next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Link please. http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/longrange2/WorldPop2300final.pdf page 6 figure 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie4redskins Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Link please. Population Growth. US: 0.92% India: 1.4% EU: 0.15% China: 0.58% Not quite the fastest, but we're up there. We're not murdering our little girls and second and third born like China, and we don't have stagnant growth percentages like the Europeans suppressed by secularism and socialism. The EU is screwed in 20 years when their working population can't support their elderly anymore. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 But no real military influence (except from our own military). None of the countries you mentioned are threats militarily to China...India is. We're saying the same thing...I'll try and be a little more specific next time. The Japanese could be if they wanted to. I agree India is a military threat to the Chinese but only because of population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie4redskins Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 The Japanese could be if they wanted to.I agree India is a military threat to the Chinese but only because of population. I was under the impression the Japanese were still constrained militarily from the terms of surrender during WWII. Is that not the case? If not, why are they not building up their defenses from NK besides the fact they're under our umbrella? Taiwan is under our umbrella too, but they're still building their defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 The Japanese could be if they wanted to.I agree India is a military threat to the Chinese but only because of population. And Nukes... And Japan isn't really a threat at all. Their navy is strong, but geared more towards defending (specifically air defense) than attacking anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 That chart does not support your claim that the US has the fastest growing population in the world. Try this link http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/population_growth_0.html It shows the US population growth at 133 out of the 198 countries in the world. or this, showing that the US isnot in the top 100 countries. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=100&v=24 or this, showing the top 10 http://www.geohive.com/charts/pop_growth.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 That chart does not support your claim that the US has the fastest growing population in the world.Try this link http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/population_growth_0.html It shows the US population growth at 133 out of the 198 countries in the world. or this, showing that the US isnot in the top 100 countries. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=100&v=24 or this, showing the top 10 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=100&v=24 I'll trust the UN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I'll trust the UN... If you understood what they were saying, perhaps. I didn't read the entire 250 page document you linked, but the chart you cited me to doesn't say what you say it does. Nor does your claim jibe with anything else I have found. That is why I question it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I was under the impression the Japanese were still constrained militarily from the terms of surrender during WWII. Is that not the case? If not, why are they not building up their defenses from NK besides the fact they're under our umbrella? Taiwan is under our umbrella too, but they're still building their defenses. They might be but I doubt it and even if they were I would bet they could get that lifted. I'm pretty sure they restrict themselves militarily. However, that does mean they couldn't build their forces rather quickly. Also, if they wanted to they could build a nuke in about 6 months if N Korea get agressive again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Close ties with India are very important for the US in this new day and age......that is what this thread is about discuss the merits of that....not population growth......and any ways we don't want huge population growth because it can cause problems for the economy and social system.....I'd personally prefer a neutral population growth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 They might be but I doubt it and even if they were I would bet they could get that lifted.I'm pretty sure they restrict themselves militarily. However, that does mean they couldn't build their forces rather quickly. Also, if they wanted to they could build a nuke in about 6 months if N Korea get agressive again. What do you base these assumptions on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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