bryceb07 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ok, now we all in some way shape or form like Patrick Ramsey here in Washington. Which is why everyone on this website is complaining about how all the experts are saying he isn't worth more than a 4th rounder. Let's look at this from another teams standpoints and look at the facts : Ramsey played OK most of the time he was in games. Ramsey competed back and forth and lost the starting job on different occasions to Danny Wuerfell (terrible) and Shane Matthews (terrible ) Joe Gibbs is a hall of fame coach who everyone loves and respects and admires for where he finds talent. Joe Gibbs even after telling the media and Ramsey he would most definately be the starter for 2005. Still chose to lose a 1st rounder just to bring in a QB (Jason Campbell) who wasnt even on the top 4 lists of QB's that year. This shows no confidence in having Ramsey as a franchise QB. The Washington Redskins have made it clear Ramsey isn't a starting QB , so thats my point let me know what you all think .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shallyshal Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 agreed. the handwriting is on the wall as far as ramsey is concerned. i have always been a fan of his, but he will not be the skins qb. period. end of discussion. they should do what they can to get the most for him in trade. the timing is the only issue. will they get more by holding on and hoping another team gets desperate after the draft or in camp? could happen. but i think a 4 might be the max they get anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespaniard Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 The people complaining about Ramsey only being worth a 4th are the same people who thought Rod Gardner was worth more than a 6th or 7th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersmartbrunell5 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 This isn't necessarily my position at all, but let me play extreme devil's advocate for the sake of argument. This is what some GMs could be saying also right now. --Patrick Ramsey started the majority of his rookie season and looked more impressive than Harrington or Carr. Palmer sat behind perennial scrub John Kitna, don't read too much into it. --While everyone respects Gibbs, many in the league must presume that he isn't the offensive guru or QB evaluator he once was as evidence by the Al Saunders hiring, starting and playing Mark Brunell in 04 as he played worse(literally) than a high school QB. Went back to Brunell in 05 after Ramsey's half of 04 was far superior. And his completely stagnant and outdated offense in 04 followed by a reversion back to that offense at the end of 05. --It's kinda like Larry Johnson at Penn State and KC to some extent. Old coaches that are set in their ways don't let younger, more talented guys play, even though it would be best for their team because they have an old-school mentality. You see this a lot all over sports. Mangini, Saban, (two possible coaches for Ramsey), they're from the Bellichick school, ditch past-his-prime Bledsoe in favor of the less proven younger guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Who was drafted under Spurrier? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogeyMan Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Why trade Ramsey if you can only get a 4th rounder for him?. Wouldn't you rather have Ramsey as your 3rd string QB than most of 2nd string QBs on other teams - think Dallas and Drew Henson or Houston and Tony Banks. Brunell is 36 and Jason Campbell is unproven, so having Ramsey around next year could be a smart move. If I'm the Redskins brass and I can't get at least a second round pick for Ramsey I keep him as an insurance policy. It would suck for Ramsey since he wants to go somewhere and get an opportunity to start, but the Redskins would have to do what's best for the team. If the salary cap ends up at $95 million, the Skins might be happy to get a 4th rounder just to get Ramsey's 1.7 million salary off the books. If the cap is at $105 million, I think it's worth it to keep Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Why trade Ramsey if you can only get a 4th rounder for him?. Wouldn't you rather have Ramsey as your 3rd string QB than most of 2nd string QBs on other teams - think Dallas and Drew Henson or Houston and Tony Banks. Brunell is 36 and Jason Campbell is unproven, so having Ramsey around next year could be a smart move. If I'm the Redskins brass and I can't get at least a second round pick for Ramsey I keep him as an insurance policy. It would suck for Ramsey since he wants to go somewhere and get an opportunity to start, but the Redskins would have to do what's best for the team. If the salary cap ends up at $95 million, the Skins might be happy to get a 4th rounder just to get Ramsey's 1.7 million salary off the books. If the cap is at $105 million, I think it's worth it to keep Ramsey. That is an expensive 3rd stringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullbackIsKey Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Who was drafted under Spurrier? Anyone? Taylor Jacobs and Gibran Hamden are the two that come to mind. ooowh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 The nice thing is, unlike Gardner last year, the Skins don't HAVE to get rid of Ramsey. That gives the Skins some negotiation power. Everyone knew that Gardner needed to be gone, from both a financial and team standpoint. Also, I'd say that Ramsey has far more value than Gardner did, partially from what has been shown on the field, and with the nature of the position. There are fewer QB options out there than there are WR options, and Ramsey has shown a much bigger potential upside than Gardner has. That being said, I think Ramsey will be delt because Gibbs has probably promised Rams that he will be shipped to another team. The thing is, we aren't really in a hurry to do a deal right now, which possibly could shake something loose. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Who was drafted under Spurrier? Anyone? Ladell Betts and Dockery Also in that 2002 draft was Rock Cartwright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 who drafted Ramsey and Gardner is I guess a more accurate question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ramsey thinks he's a starting QB because he was a first round draft choice. Since he was taken 32nd overall that year, he could have easily been taken in the 2nd or perhaps third round. Although Ramsey had his competitions against Wurefuel and Shane Mathews, he still had his starting job snuffed out from under him when Gibbs came back and taken away from him again after he was injuried in the Bears game. But I say he's worth more than a 4th rounder. He's worth more like a early third or late 2nd rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Its kind of funny to think he might only merit a 4th rounder considering the Bears gave up a 5th and frontloaded a contract to pry a fullback (Bryan Johnson) away from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Bryce and Supersmart brunell both make great points, from opposing points of view. First, I am a big ramsey fan, I think people quickly forget how well he did. I also acknowledge he HAD a problem turning the ball over, and of right now, he is an unknown in many peoples books. The reason we cant get better than a 4th for him is, hes slightly damaged goods, he has question marks, and Gibbs and company have shown zero faith in him. Other owners are looking at the fact that Brunell was absolutely horrid that first season and yet Gibbs still wouldnt put ramsey in . Then they see that Gibbs was quick to bench ramsey 20 minutes into the next season. Supersmart makes great points that, Ramsey has looked impressive at times, some owners think the game has passed Gibbs by somewhat, and we all know Gibbs likes veteran QBs. So its entirely possible he passed on Ramsey not based purely on skill, but somewhat based on his experience, or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 actually it's more of 2 other factors 1. The Skins cap.... if no cba is reached 2. Everyone knows Gibbs promised a trade, much like Gardner last season, other teams knows it's a buyers market.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse1 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ok, now we all in some way shape or form like Patrick Ramsey here in Washington. Which is why everyone on this website is complaining about how all the experts are saying he isn't worth more than a 4th rounder.Let's look at this from another teams standpoints and look at the facts : Ramsey played OK most of the time he was in games. Ramsey competed back and forth and lost the starting job on different occasions to Danny Wuerfell (terrible) and Shane Matthews (terrible ) Joe Gibbs is a hall of fame coach who everyone loves and respects and admires for where he finds talent. Joe Gibbs even after telling the media and Ramsey he would most definately be the starter for 2005. Still chose to lose a 1st rounder just to bring in a QB (Jason Campbell) who wasnt even on the top 4 lists of QB's that year. This shows no confidence in having Ramsey as a franchise QB. The Washington Redskins have made it clear Ramsey isn't a starting QB , so thats my point let me know what you all think .... I don't think any of your points are valid. Neither Mathews nor Wuerfell ever beat out Ramsey after Ram worked his way into the line up. He was once briefly replaced after a bad game-- a common enough strategy with a rookie, and also sat when injured. To say he was beaten out by Wuerful is to ignore Spurrier's strange relationship with a terrible QB the Boss had to fire personally. There was no respect at all around the league for Spurrier or his peculiar fascination with Wuerfell. Ramsey has averaged 201 yds per game with the Skins in spite of spot appearances that have pulled down his average. In the equivalent of 21 games he has thrown for 39 touchdowns and over 5000 yds and has a QB rating of over 75. These stats compare favorably with the early stats of Hall of Fame QB's Warren Moon, Troy Aikman, John Elway, and Steve Young. In the last four years, during which he has played the equivalent of only 21 games, he has been the most productive Redskin: He is way ahead. Behind him are Brunell, Portis, Gardner, Coles. Last season, his QB rating was far superior to Brunell's, as were all of his other stats. This season, he played very rarely, but his qb rating was over 95, once again far superior to Brunell's. If you are a GM, you know that Gibbs has a higher level of comfort with older quarterbacks, especially if they are dedicated Christians, like Brunell, share Gibb's perspectives, and belong to his church. Would you not expect Gibbs to tilt toward Brunell? Would you respect Spurrier's opinion or take a look at Ramsey's stats? There are only a couple of handfuls of people in the world capable of amassing the kind of stats the Ram has amassed, especially with a terrible OL in front of him and lousy receivers. It wouldn't surpise me at all if he were traded one on one for Abraham or at least for a 2nd rounder. To trade him for anything less than that would be a ridiculous mistake. On the other hand, trading Brunell, if we can, would be a damn good idea. He'll never make it to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 who drafted Ramsey and Gardner is I guess a more accurate question. Snyder and Schottenheimer, respectively... Spurrier didn't want Ramsey. Snyder wanted Santana Moss, but Schott had all the personnel decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 On the other hand, trading Brunell, if we can, would be a damn good idea. He'll never make it to the playoffs. Yeah, you're right. That whole 2005 season was a Bobby Ewing Special... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 actually it's more of 2 other factors1. The Skins cap.... if no cba is reached 2. Everyone knows Gibbs promised a trade, much like Gardner last season, other teams knows it's a sellers market.... I think that's the factor people are ignoring. Everybody knows we don't want Ramsey anymore so why would they give much up for him. I expect we'll get more than we did for worthless *** 50/50, but it's no secret that Ramsey's gone no matter what so we won't get full value for him. I still think it's going to be Ramsey and our 2nd or 3rd for Abraham. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse1 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Yeah, you're right. That whole 2005 season was a Bobby Ewing Special... :doh: Ok, I'll amend that. He'll never make it to the playoff on two functioning knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the burgundy and gold Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 they know they can get him for very cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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