CrossWalker Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I was pretty young when the Schroeder for Lachey trade went down. I remember that Schroeder had a cannon and wasn't really well established. Was that trade a sign of the times or is it plausible that the same kind of move could be made. What do the elder Skins fans here remember from the Lachey trade? I know it worked out pretty well for us..... MASSIVE UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I remember the press calling Gibbs crazy for making the trade. - If I remember correctly it was because Schroeder didn't take his benching well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Things worked out thanks to Mark Rypien developing. Jim Lachey was a great lineman and he improved the Hogs immediately, but Jay Schroeder was established when we traded him and we took a huge gamble on getting rid of him. Jay had his ups and downs in 1987 but he had earned a Pro Bowl spot in 1986. He also had a knack for the 4th quarter comeback and had a career record of 24-8. But it's true, Jay didn't handle his benching in 1987 too well and that's why Gibbs got rid of him. I guess Gibbs felt comfortable making the move because Ryp was ready to play in 1988. Because if Ryp was not ready we would have been in deep trouble in the late 80's and early 90's. Doug Williams proved what most of us suspected, he was a washed up QB who had flashes of brillance in his otherwise declining career. If Ramsey wants out and Gibbs feels JC is ready for at least the #2 position, Gibbs will move Ramsey. Trouble is, Patrick does not have nearly the resume Jay Schroeder did when we traded him so don't expect a "Jim Lachey" type in return for Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDevil Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 If Ramsey wants out and Gibbs feels JC is ready for at least the #2 position, Gibbs will move Ramsey. Trouble is, Patrick does not have nearly the resume Jay Schroeder did when we traded him so don't expect a "Jim Lachey" type in return for Ramsey. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I remember the press calling Gibbs crazy for making the trade. - If I remember correctly it was because Schroeder didn't take his benching well. I don't remember it that way at all. In fact the feeling at the time was that it was payback for the anal raping that Al Davis gave Beathard on Calvin Muhammad. Lachey was considered a great tackle at the time (went to the Pro Bowl the previous year) and Schroeder was on the outs with the Skins at the time. Lachey forced a trade with San Diego and played only one game with the Raiders before the trade went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I don't remember it that way at all. In fact the feeling at the time was that it was payback for the anal raping that Al Davis gave Beathard on Calvin Muhammad. Lachey was considered a great tackle at the time (went to the Pro Bowl the previous year) and Schroeder was on the outs with the Skins at the time. Lachey forced a trade with San Diego and played only one game with the Raiders before the trade went down. I'm sure it was was implied on both ends. ...I do know the Mike Oliphant for Earnest Byner was highly criticized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I was pretty young when the Schroeder for Lachey trade went down. I remember that Schroeder had a cannon and wasn't really well established. Was that trade a sign of the times or is it plausible that the same kind of move could be made. What do the elder Skins fans here remember from the Lachey trade? I know it worked out pretty well for us..... MASSIVE UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!! Schroeder was very well established. He went to the Pro Bowl in 1986 with 4000 yards passing leading the Skins to the NFC championship game and led the skins to the playoffs in 1987. He also had a couple of very good years in LA with the Raiders. At that time, offensive lineman did not have the same trade value they now hold. It wasn't as lopsided as you think it was. The Skins would have probably been a much better team in the 1988 and 1989 seasons with Jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I don't remember it that way at all. In fact the feeling at the time was that it was payback for the anal raping that Al Davis gave Beathard on Calvin Muhammad. Lachey was considered a great tackle at the time (went to the Pro Bowl the previous year) and Schroeder was on the outs with the Skins at the time. Lachey forced a trade with San Diego and played only one game with the Raiders before the trade went down. You have it right. You could hear the Radiers fans groaning all the way to Seattle. Some tried to convince themselves Jay would make it, but my buddy (Raider fan) at the time hated what "we" did to him at the time and always called him Ricky ShrOder because he was a "blonde little wimp" :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I was pretty young when the Schroeder for Lachey trade went down. I remember that Schroeder had a cannon and wasn't really well established. Was that trade a sign of the times or is it plausible that the same kind of move could be made. What do the elder Skins fans here remember from the Lachey trade? I know it worked out pretty well for us..... MASSIVE UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!! I guess I qualify as 'elder' Big difference was that Jay had had a Pro Bowl year in '86 and taken us to the Championship game. he had been inconsistent in '87 and lost his starters job to Doug Williams. At the time it looked like a great trade for both clubs as we needed a tackle with Mark May retiring and Schroeder seemed to be a perfect fit for the Al Davis Raiders - just throw it deep - offense. As it turned out '87 was more the benchmark for Jay than '86 and we all know Jim Lachey turned out to be the lynch pin of one of the best O'lines in NFL history on the '91 team. While Pat Ramsey actually is probably a better QB than Jay Schroeder he has not done anything to compare with Schroeders '86 season and does not have the trade vale. The cap system also mitigates against these kind of blockbuster trades. The best we will get for Pat of a 3rd or 4th rounder. HTTR Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Shroeder put up a lot of yards in 86, true. But he also had a lot more interceptions than Gibbs is willing to live with. 87 was worse and he got benched and traded. Ramsey is a better QB but nobody knows that and he hasn't been the QB on a 12-4 team either. But the thing holding that 86 team back was Shroeder, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shallyshal Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I was pretty young when the Schroeder for Lachey trade went down. I remember that Schroeder had a cannon and wasn't really well established. Was that trade a sign of the times or is it plausible that the same kind of move could be made. What do the elder Skins fans here remember from the Lachey trade? I know it worked out pretty well for us..... MASSIVE UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!! one thing for certain, schroeder had a far better opportunity to prove himself as redskin qb. the skins had been badly snookered by the raiders in previous trade(s) getting stuck with a receiver with a significant impairment before (malcolm barnwell).. cost them a second rounder and so the press was leery of any dealings with al davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefPowhatan17 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Jay Schroeder was such an ego maniac, totally different personality than Ramsey. Ramsey had an unfair shake here, when Jay did. Jay was the starter and didn't do it, so he was gone. I think that we made out like bandits with Lachey, but maybe the raiders think they got the good end of the deal. Schroeder played for them a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I am telling you a lot of you guys are saying we will get rid of Ramsey for a 3rd if we are lucky. I say Gibbs, if Sanders doesn't want Ramsey, will trade him for an experienced player, probably a DE to a team that needs a QB like the Raiders did way back when. What I hope happens is that Sanders sees Ramsey, and then says to Gibbs, brother Joe we should keep him and let go of Brunell. Then we will have to yound QBs that can take this team to the next level in the next 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz1972 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Things worked out thanks to Mark Rypien developing.Jim Lachey was a great lineman and he improved the Hogs immediately, but Jay Schroeder was established when we traded him and we took a huge gamble on getting rid of him. Jay had his ups and downs in 1987 but he had earned a Pro Bowl spot in 1986. He also had a knack for the 4th quarter comeback and had a career record of 24-8. But it's true, Jay didn't handle his benching in 1987 too well and that's why Gibbs got rid of him. I guess Gibbs felt comfortable making the move because Ryp was ready to play in 1988. Because if Ryp was not ready we would have been in deep trouble in the late 80's and early 90's. Doug Williams proved what most of us suspected, he was a washed up QB who had flashes of brillance in his otherwise declining career. If Ramsey wants out and Gibbs feels JC is ready for at least the #2 position, Gibbs will move Ramsey. Trouble is, Patrick does not have nearly the resume Jay Schroeder did when we traded him so don't expect a "Jim Lachey" type in return for Ramsey. delcining career?doug was with tampa b4 he was with skinz,it was skinz that gave him a shot and he ran with it. SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 To me this situation ia apples and oranges because of the different free agency systems in place and the salary cap. Most teams expect that we will release Ramsey if no trade offers materialize. That in and of itself keeps his value down in a trade situation. Why offer up a starter or a high round draft pick if the player is expected to be released anyway? Teams that don't want to compete once he hits the market will offer something up but only in terms of a 3rd or lower round pick. Otherwise, they'll wait to see if he ends up on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Shroeder put up a lot of yards in 86, true. But he also had a lot more interceptions than Gibbs is willing to live with. 87 was worse and he got benched and traded. Ramsey is a better QB but nobody knows that and he hasn't been the QB on a 12-4 team either. But the thing holding that 86 team back was Shroeder, not the other way around. The only thing holding that '86 team back was the New York Giants. Parcells owned Gibbs during that period. It was a nightmare. I still remember being 11 years old, and the pit in my stomach watching that NFC Championship game at the Meadowlands. The Skins ran through every other team they played, and then they ran into the Giants like a brick wall...three times that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 delcining career?doug was with tampa b4 he was with skinz,it was skinz that gave him a shot and he ran with it. SB He was drafted by Tampa (in '79 I think) when Gibbs was on the staff, but I'm pretty sure he had been in the USFL for a few years, and the Redskins signed him when it folded. Could be wrong though. He was definitely getting old at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 delcining career?doug was with tampa b4 he was with skinz,it was skinz that gave him a shot and he ran with it. SB Hence the term declining career. Doug was not an effective 16 game quarterback by the time we got him. Yes, he was great in the Super Bowl that's why I mentioned "flashes of brillance". Doug did not "run with it". He split time with Ryp in 1988. He lost his job to Ryp in 1989. He was out of the league in 1990. If we didn't have Mark Rypien, the loss of Jay Schroeder would have been catastrophic. I stand by my statement. Thanks to the emergence of Mark Rypien, that trade looks good. Replacing Jay Schroeder with Doug Williams as a full time 16 game starter could have been a disaster despite the fact we got a near HOF left tackle in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailRiggoRanger Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Just curious...does anyone's have Schroeder's numbers from his Raiders days? A couple of people have posted that he didn't have a bad career, and I know he played through at least the 1991 season; so, they stuck with him for awhile. Did he turn out to be average, or did he have a pretty decent career there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I guess I qualify as 'elder' Big difference was that Jay had had a Pro Bowl year in '86 and taken us to the Championship game. he had been inconsistent in '87 and lost his starters job to Doug Williams. At the time it looked like a great trade for both clubs as we needed a tackle with Mark May retiring and Schroeder seemed to be a perfect fit for the Al Davis Raiders - just throw it deep - offense. As it turned out '87 was more the benchmark for Jay than '86 and we all know Jim Lachey turned out to be the lynch pin of one of the best O'lines in NFL history on the '91 team. While Pat Ramsey actually is probably a better QB than Jay Schroeder he has not done anything to compare with Schroeders '86 season and does not have the trade vale. The cap system also mitigates against these kind of blockbuster trades. The best we will get for Pat of a 3rd or 4th rounder. HTTR Martin Elder, huh? But in fairness to SoCal, Schroeder did have one pretty good year with the Raider I guess in 87 (12-4) that I tend to overlook sometimes . But just like Seattle got a lot of criticism this year for being in a soft division, that was the year KC was the only other good team in the AFCW. The Bronco's and Chargers both won like 5-6 games and Seattle was 9 wins, spilttting with the Radiers. They had a bye, then played a hapless bengal team at home to get to the next round where Al's boys offered a dazzling 51-3 loss to Jim Kelly. Jay's stats for his raider years are below. Outside of that one year, my memory is still that it was generally percieved during the time (those 45-years) that we rooked Al pretty good. Now, whether that's overstating it, could be, I could at least kind of see why they took the deal, though a gamble--it just went sideways on them. +---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Passing | Rushing | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | 1985 was | 9 | 112 209 53.6 1458 7.0 5 5 | 17 30 0 | | 1986 was | 16 | 276 541 51.0 4109 7.6 22 22 | 36 47 1 | | 1987 was | 11 | 129 267 48.3 1878 7.0 12 10 | 26 120 3 | | 1988 rai | 9 | 113 256 44.1 1839 7.2 13 13 | 29 109 1 | | 1989 rai | 11 | 91 194 46.9 1550 8.0 8 13 | 15 38 0 | | 1990 rai | 16 | 182 334 54.5 2849 8.5 19 9 | 37 81 0 | | 1991 rai | 15 | 189 357 52.9 2562 7.2 15 16 | 28 76 0 | | 1992 rai | 13 | 123 253 48.6 1476 5.8 11 11 | 28 160 0 | | 1993 cin | 9 | 78 159 49.1 832 5.2 5 2 | 10 41 0 | | 1994 ari | 9 | 133 238 55.9 1510 6.3 4 7 | 16 59 0 | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | TOTAL | 118 | 1426 2808 50.8 20063 7.1 114 108 | 242 761 5 | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ Here's a link since I lack adequate competence in getting that stat table lined up :laugh: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/SchrJa00.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 2002 Washington Redskins 51.5% 1539 yds 9 td 8int 71.8 rating 2003 Washington Redskins 53.1% 2166 yds 14 td 9int 75.8 rating 2004 Washington Redskins 62.1% 1665 yds 10 td 11 int 74.8 rating 2005 Washington Redskins 60.0% 279 yds 1 td 1 int 95.3 rating Ramsey has never played a full season, and his stats are pretty miserable. I'll be happy with a 4th rounder, ecstatic with a 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Just curious...does anyone's have Schroeder's numbers from his Raiders days? A couple of people have posted that he didn't have a bad career, and I know he played through at least the 1991 season; so, they stuck with him for awhile. Did he turn out to be average, or did he have a pretty decent career there? Just did it How's that for service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailRiggoRanger Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Thanks Jumbo. Wow, I didn't even realize he played for Cincy and Arizona and as late 1994. Looks like 1990 was his only decent season, and even then, nothing great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCnDaHouse Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Schroeder really struggled his last couple seasons with the Raiders. I remember one wild card game where he (and the team) looked plain awful. I think though the team went south on him and he didn't have much to work with. I really was upset when they got rid of him but I think Joe Gibbs knew what he was doing. Jim Lachey was a stud at LT. He would have been in the HOF if he hadn't hurt his shoulder and had his career cut short. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Look at Shroeders TD to Int ratio and it will tell you all you need to know about him. Even in his '86 pro bowl year he coughed it up 22 times? Urgh! I distinctly remember the knock on him as he departed the Redskins is that he couldn't figure out the zone defenses thrown at him. He had a monster arm but little or no touch for it. And a bad attitude. The rest is history. The '86 championship game was just a horror show. The G-men brought pressure with the front seven and dropped their secondary into zones and waited for the ball to be thrown to them. I forget how many picks he threw that day. 4 or 5 I think. FYI. I attended the skins '88 preseason game against the Raiders in L.A. (when they played in L.A. for you youngsters ). Shroeder was showing off his arm to Al going deeeep as often as he could and even once just hurled it waaay over the heads of everyone as hard as he could. I was like, wtf? He was traded very soon after that game and then it all made sense. All this has nothing to do with Ramsey, of course except that there's no way we would get the kind of value for him as we got for Shroeder. Shroeder was a stiff and Lachey a stud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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