Jay Master Jay Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes it will because he isn't in our future plans. We can get a good receiver for Ramsey like Porter from the Raiders. Ramsey can play but our coach doesn't think he is the answer. Our future is with J Campbell so we might as well get something for Ramsey while all these teams have new coaching staffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What you have failed to realize and probably will never realize since you are as thick as a California Redwood is that there has been an open competition at QB for (going on) 3 years. This is Gibbs 3rd offseason. There have been 2 full seasons of games, in-season practices, offseason practices, mini-camps, QB camps, coffee talks, etc. Ramsey has had more opportunities to seize than just about any QB in Redskin history in his 4 seasons here. He hasn't seized them. End of story. I think you're the one that's failing to grasp what I'm saying. Gibbs has spoken often about players like Rypien who didn't cut it for a number of years until the light bulb finally went on, and compared Ramsey to them, but that's not even the key point. The point is to have the strongest QB position you can, and the most options available, because we don't have a clearly good option at the position, and that should be the biggest concern on the team for next year. You keep Ramsey, and you have an open competition, but if he doesn't win it, he's still there if you need him. You're arguing against something I'm not even saying. Just like with Arrington (though Ramsey has handled things like a man vs. Arrington like a 12 year old) Ramsey has no one to blame but himself. We may not have the 99 Rams for a supporting cast but it aint the 91 Patriots either. The only thing that's "stunted" his growth is the fact that he's a slow learner. Or perhaps he's never going to be anything more than an average starter? You're kidding right? Does the name Spurrier ring a bell? Brunell may have maxed out this past season and it's fair to say that a mystery player like Campbell can't be expected to make this team better immediately. But to suggest that Ramsey is the QB to take us to the final 4 or beyond ignores the reality of the past 4 seasons. Like I said, I didn't say that. I said they should keep him, and have an open competition. If he steps up, great. If not, we have a strong backup just like we did last year. I will admit that in my personal opinion, there is no doubt Ramsey is the best QB, at this point in time, that the Redskins have on their roster. That's as much of a commentary on where Brunell and Campbell are in their careers as it is on Ramsey's abilities, but you have to work with what your realistic options are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Goodness... I can't wait to get rid of Ramsey just so this nonsense ends. That's precisely the kind of totally irrational thinking I hope the team avoids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 This moves comes down to relative value. The Skins don't need Ramsey on the roster at this point. They can fill the #2 or #3 QB spot (depending on Campbell's development) with a veteran who would have a lower salary cap impact (there are planty on the market - some who have been successful as starters in the past). Who are they, and what were they being paid last year? Ramsey is extremely cheap right now for a quality QB, which he is no matter how much people on here trash him. The best scenario would have the Redskins getting a mid-round pick in return. At this point I'd deal Ramsey in a heart beat if it would help land a quality WR or DE in the draft or via free agency (due to freeing up some cap room). The defense did just fine last year without a star DE. Patten is coming back next year. If you don't have a QB who can get it done for you, nothing else matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 That's precisely the kind of totally irrational thinking I hope the team avoids. I'm talking about the message board, not the 'Skins organization. The 'Skins have truly rational reasons for not keeping him around, the biggest being the don't absolutely need him and can get a pick. The same time, they also don't absolutely need to get rid of him if they get offered less than what they want. The 'Skins have all the say here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The defense did just fine last year without a star DE. Patten is coming back next year. If you don't have a QB who can get it done for you, nothing else matters. Somehow, Santana Moss broke the 'Skins single-season record with no QB at all. Amazing. They must be making his bust for Canton as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes it will because he isn't in our future plans. We can get a good receiver for Ramsey like Porter from the Raiders. Ramsey can play but our coach doesn't think he is the answer. Our future is with J Campbell so we might as well get something for Ramsey while all these teams have new coaching staffs. All of these comments fall under the category of "conventional wisdom", which in the realm of sports fans isn't wisdom at all. The team has to make very serious, carefully thought out decisions that could effect the team in a major way down the road. Try thinking of a hypothetical, but entirely possible scenario to get an idea of what hangs in the balance: Ramsey goes somewhere else and becomes a quality starter next year, and we have to sit and watch him play well for somebody else, while Brunell is dogged by injury Campbell struggles mightily, and the team misses the playoffs. People on here will be shooting themselves in the head left and right. All because of what? Some kind of knee jerk need to trade a player we already had under contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Somehow, Santana Moss broke the 'Skins single-season record with no QB at all. Amazing. They must be making his bust for Canton as we speak. What happened in the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Try thinking of a hypothetical, but entirely possible scenario to get an idea of what hangs in the balance: Ramsey goes somewhere else and becomes a quality starter next year, and we have to sit and watch him play well for somebody else, while Brunell is dogged by injury Campbell struggles mightily, and the team misses the playoffs. People on here will be shooting themselves in the head left and right. All because of what? Some kind of knee jerk need to trade a player we already had under contract? The other possible scenario: We trade Ramsey and his U-Haul, he goes somewhere and continues down a road toward mediocrity while Brunell gets us to the playoffs again or Campbell comes in and takes people by surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What happened in the playoffs? We had no #2 WR to speak at all, Jacobs retreated like a little girl and our RG, who was also our best O-Lineman, was out with a broken leg. Our RB had a shoulder injury, our QB had a knee injury, our LT was playing on a bad ankle and a bad knee and the replacement for said RG missed time against the Seahawks and was replaced by a turnstile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Here are the QBs listed as FAs this offseason: Anthony Wright UFA Ravens Charlie Batch UFA Steelers Chris Simms RFA Buccaneers Chris Weinke UFA Panthers Craig Nall UFA Packers Damon Huard UFA Chiefs Dave Ragone RFA Texans Doug Flutie UFA Patriots Drew Brees UFA Chargers Jamie Martin UFA Rams Jeff Blake UFA Bears Jeff Garcia UFA Lions Jesse Palmer UFA 49ers Jon Kitna UFA Bengals Josh McCown UFA Cardinals Ken Dorsey RFA 49ers Kliff Kingsbury RFA Jets Kurt Warner UFA Cardinals Sage Rosenfels UFA Dolphins Seneca Wallace RFA Seahawks Shane Matthews UFA Bills Shaun Hill UFA Vikings Tim Hasselbeck UFA Giants Todd Collins UFA Chiefs Ty Detmer UFA Falcons Vinny Testaverde UFA Jets Kitna has already been re-signed. Brees has been or will be. The only player on that list that sparks any interest at all is Kurt Warner, because this is the offense he had in STL, but he presents some of the same problems Brunell does due to age. I'm not sure if AZ plans to re-sign him or not. One look at what's out there ought to make this a no-brainer decision. Keep him. I'm begging the team...whether you want to start him or not, just keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 One look at what's out there ought to make this a no-brainer decision. Keep him. I'm begging the team...whether you want to start him or not, just keep him. It doesn't matter. Our #3 QB doesn't need to be Joe Montana. He can only get in of Brunell and Campbell are injured, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 our QB had a knee injury You could have stopped right there, because that is the sole reason we didn't go further. He was not the same player AT ALL after the injury. We won the Tampa game because the defense scored a TD. We got THREE turnovers against Seattle and turned it into 10 points, and it was because Brunell could not get it done. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Who are they, and what were they being paid last year? QUOTE]I don't have time to do extensive research but Garcia, Rosenfels to name a couple (go ahead and tell how much better Ramsey is - we only need someone to fill the #3 spot) - there are definitely more out there that could fill a #3 spot at the veteran's minimum (much less than what PR makes). Campbell should be our #2 (if not the starter). As for DE, we did ok but got very little pash rush out of our DE's this season. During the 5 game losing stretch it left us exposed in the secondary whenever we would blitz. I'm certainly not the only one who thinks we could use an upgrade at DE (see all the threads concerning Abraham). We could also use another LB (if Arrington departs) not to mention depth on the O-line with Brown retiring and RJ coming off of an injury. Too many needs to fill to keep PR on the roster holding the clipboard behind Brunell and Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 You could have stopped right there, because that is the sole reason we didn't go further. He was not the same player AT ALL after the injury. We won the Tampa game because the defense scored a TD. We got THREE turnovers against Seattle and turned it into 10 points, and it was because Brunell could not get it done. End of story. What does it say that Coach Gibbs wanted to stay with an injured Brunell rather than a healthy Ramsey? End of story. Nice to completely discount that our line was battered and our starting RB was heavily dinged up against Tampa, though. Yeah... I'm sure none of that had anything to do with it... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 It doesn't matter. Our #3 QB doesn't need to be Joe Montana. He can only get in of Brunell and Campbell are injured, anyway. We just disagree about Brunell and Campbell. Honestly, if you can step back from trying to win a childish argument on a message board, do you really feel confident about the team doing as well or better than it did last year with Brunell, Campbell and somebody like Hasselbeck at QB? Honestly. Are you oblivious on Brunell, do you think Campbell is going to defy all odds, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What does it say that Coach Gibbs wanted to stay with an injured Brunell rather than a healthy Ramsey?End of story. What it says is that Brunell had been starting all year, and Gibbs didn't want to switch QBs in the playoffs. It was a mistake though, because Brunell is what held the team back, and Ramsey probably would have done better. Nice to completely discount that our line was battered and our starting RB was heavily dinged up against Tampa, though. Yeah... I'm sure none of that had anything to do with it... :doh: I saw what the offense was like when Brunell was healthy, and I saw what it was like when he was injured. The other factors played a role, but Brunell might as well have been playing on crutches for all he did in the playoffs. He was far and away the primary culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 We just disagree about Brunell and Campbell. Honestly, if you can step back from trying to win a childish argument on a message board, do you really feel confident about the team doing as well or better than it did last year with Brunell, Campbell and somebody like Hasselbeck at QB? Honestly. Are you oblivious on Brunell, do you think Campbell is going to defy all odds, or what? I'm not trying to win an argument. You're trying to convince everyone we need to keep Ramsey and that's just not gonna' happen. Yeah, I do feel comfortable with those two guys. Coach Gibbs himself said he would be comfortable if Campbell had to play and you pass it off as merely nothing or, even worse, wishful thinking. We already know what Ramsey can do and he's not it. Matter of fact, he was figuratively gone the second he finished loading up his U-Haul. Accept it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What it says is that Brunell had been starting all year, and Gibbs didn't want to switch QBs in the playoffs. It was a mistake though, because Brunell is what held the team back, and Ramsey probably would have done better. Based on... ? Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The defense did just fine last year without a star DE. Patten is coming back next year. If you don't have a QB who can get it done for you, nothing else matters. Hmmm....seems the Ravens won a Superbowl without a star QB. Also - didn't the Steelers just win a Championship with the worst QB performance in history? Defense wins championships. Having a veteran QB who got the team to the playoffs as a starter followed by a number one pick with an abundance of talent seems pretty good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Who are the key skill players on offense and who acquired them? Brunell - Gibbs Campbell - Gibbs Cooley - Gibbs Portis - Gibbs Moss - Gibbs Patten - Gibbs Thrash - Gibbs Taylor Jacobs - Spurrier Do you see a pattern here? Gibbs hand picks his guys based on his eyes and his particular needs. For Gibbs, the qb position is the absolutely most important. Get over it AJ - Gibbs just doesn't have confidence in Ramsey. PR is just not who Gibbs wants. He doesn't care what you want. He clearly doesn't want Ramsey and you can disagree - but Gibbs will almost certainly trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm not trying to win an argument. You're trying to convince everyone we need to keep Ramsey and that's just not gonna' happen. Yeah, I do feel comfortable with those two guys. Coach Gibbs himself said he would be comfortable if Campbell had to play and you pass it off as merely nothing or, even worse, wishful thinking.We already know what Ramsey can do and he's not it. Matter of fact, he was figuratively gone the second he finished loading up his U-Haul. Accept it already. Sorry, I don't buy it. You're all worked up about arguments on a message board, and you're not thinking or talking football (maybe you're a fan who doesn't really try to understand the game). You're just saying "Yeah, so what? Screw you!" It's obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Based on... ?Nothing. Let me put it another way...I probably would have done better than Brunell in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Who are the key skill players on offense and who acquired them?Brunell - Gibbs Campbell - Gibbs Cooley - Gibbs Portis - Gibbs Moss - Gibbs Patten - Gibbs Thrash - Gibbs Taylor Jacobs - Spurrier Do you see a pattern here? Gibbs hand picks his guys based on his eyes and his particular needs. For Gibbs, the qb position is the absolutely most important. Get over it AJ - Gibbs just doesn't have confidence in Ramsey. PR is just not who Gibbs wants. He doesn't care what you want. He clearly doesn't want Ramsey and you can disagree - but Gibbs will almost certainly trade him. I think you're wrong about that, based on what Gibbs has said over the course of time. I think he would rather keep Ramsey on the team next year, and I think he even has hopes that Ramsey can step up his level of play, but he also has a strong belief that if somebody wants to be traded, he's going to do it, because you don't want somebody around who doesn't want to be there. I'm just saying I think that may not be the best course in this particular situation, given how crucial the position is. What's more, why is this all coming down on me? I didn't start this thread. I'm clearly not the only one who thinks this way. People around here seriously need to grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Sorry, I don't buy it. You're all worked up about arguments on a message board, and you're not thinking ot talking football (maybe your a fan who doesn't really try to understand the game). You're just saying "Yeah, so what? Screw you!" It's obvious. Not really. I'm basing what I say with things that have happened over the last couple years, even since Coach Gibbs got here. Ramsey got benched during the Chicago game and never returned. Benched. Musgrave was brought in primarily to work with Campbell. Saunders said he was looking forward to working with Brunell and Campbell. No mention of Ramsey, a conditioned response since he knew he wouldn't be working with him. Most of all the Coach, for two years, stuck with an injured Brunell rather than put in a healthy Ramsey. Ramsey packed up a U-Haul at the end of the year, after talking to Coach Gibbs, instead of the duffle bag or two the other guys had. The facts are right there on the wall and they're in plain English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.