Is there really a such thing as acting black or white?

[chomerics]

I hear ya! But what makes those evil plans work? We do. We make them work by succumbing to them.

Does it matter if Karl Rove uses those mechanisms knowingly or Joe Marketing stumbles upon them by chance? I offer that it does not. You cannot prevent evil from scheming or Joes from trying. The only way to stop it is to take away the lever.

I don't disagree, but you are talking about something the vast majority of people are unaware of, and their (the evil doers) motives are to keep things that way. They have the ability to get people to think how they want them to, yet people are just blinded.

Marketing imho makes this more apperent by shedding away everything that does not "work," thus leaving levers increasingly exposed. Maybe I am talking just about Hollywood...

But only those who are looking for it, can see it. Something I am really getting interested in now is the search for the truth behind the fog. Reality is only what mass media wants us to believe reality is, and until people start understanding this, they will continue to be nothing more then pawns who are used by the rich and powerful. It is a cynical way to look at things, but I think it is much closer to the truth, especially when you hear things like the Enron tapes, or read the Abramhoff/Scanlon e-mails. Each thing that is leaked removes a veil, much like Katrina did with FEMA and Bush's posse.

EDIT: I think it would be too dangerous to start blaming somebody or something for scheming. That would make us too likely to try and fight the face of evil rather then the mechanism by which it works. There will always be another Karl Rove you see... must take away the lever

I agree there is always another Karl Rove on the horizon, and it is unavoidable that people like this will come to power. What I think we need to do as a society is expose them as frauds, and explain their alterior motives. Leave it up to the individual to decide for themselves the best course of action. This in a way is exposing the lever, but even people who are aware they are being manipulated fail to recognize where and how they are.

That's why I posted the IAT test from Harvard, because everyone has social stigmatisims even when they think they don't. I think the most astounding part about the study is that even black people have a bias towards white people, meaning that race isn't the issue, but the way society conditionds us. This bias is something on more of a primitave level in our subconcious which comes from years of conditioning. There is really no true way to eliminate it from society, other then to make people aware of it, and to stop glorifying the "black urban male" criminal mantra. . . watch COPS for a good demonstration of this in action.

[Prosperity]

I don't disagree, but you are talking about something the vast majority of people are unaware of, and their (the evil doers) motives are to keep things that way. They have the ability to get people to think how they want them to, yet people are just blinded.

Don't you think evil doer is a strong word? I wouldn't call anyone evil for what others willingly go along by.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

SSM I can kind of see your gripe. I grew up attending predominately black schools and I have heard people say to other blacks that they are acting white or talking white. I rarely speak slang or broken English and no one accuses me of talking or acting white. My speculation is that you are being judged more on your company and cultural tastes than by your manner of speaking. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do because it's not.

In my experiences of growing up attending predominately black schools and then going on to attend a predominately white college, I have seen that some blacks will shun all or most things black, particularly when it doesn't suit them. Some blacks will perceive this as a slight and try to hurt such a person by calling them "white". They say "white" not so much to connote speaking properly, as much to say that "here is a black person that is shunning her race." I don't know you, so I'm not saying this is you, but this is what I have seen.

I can understand what you're saying. But in your assumption you are wrong, I have had people who would say that I'm trying to be white purely based on how I talk. I, like I said in my first post, have had people tell me that they though I was trying to be white, because I talked so proper, that's just how my dad raised me, if he ever caught me trying to talk a certain way he would have beat my ass. Also, if just make a statement about myself, I do have a lot of white friends, but most of my friends came from where I work, and until about a year ago, I was one of the only 2 or 3 black guys who worked at the Apple Store. However, I would say that I probably have an equal number of black and white friends, now. However, I think that I'm not the type of person, I can't talk for everyone else, that will shun black people, or black causes, just because I hang with white people. In-fact it's probably the other way around, most of my friends know exactly where I stand on certain racial issues, and I don't bite my tongue for what any of them think.

I do not stereotype people whom "act" white or black by there color but, by there taste in music. Now I know that sentence above can be confusing and maybe even taken the wrong way--so I will explain the best way I can.

Lets use Eminem for example, He is claimed by many to "act" black. Why because he raps? That is just bogus if you ask me. It all comes with the culture he is brought up around. In my eyes he would not be considered "acting" black but expressing the hip-hop culture. Same goes for, say, DeFord Bailey [the first black star of the Grand Ole Opry] and Charley Pride [who has unquestionably been the most well-known black country singer (and one of the most successful country artists of any color) of all time]-- They are country musicians, so does that make them white by association? Of course it does not. They were brought up in the country (Bailey in Tennessee and Pride in Mississippi) listening to that type of music.

This is just the world we live in and it, to be honest, does not seem to be getting better fast.

Now while I get what you're saying I still think that's somewhat ignorant. I mean, just because I like Tool does that mean I want to be white? Hell on my iPod I'll give you a sampling of who's on it; Tool, Our Lady Peace, At The Drive In, Fugees, DangerDoom, Jay Z, ODB, Wu-Tang, Queens of the Stone Age, Jimi Hendrix, Rage Against the Machine, Propaghandi, Duke Ellington, Charles Mingus.

Honestly, I don't have a lot of current, or popular, rap on my iPod. Mainly because I think most of it has lost a lot of depth that used to be there, and has become unimaginative and dumb(for a lack of a better word. I mainly stick to underground, and alt-rap, because it possesses the aforementioned virtues.

I've never understood this as well. In college had a black roommate. He was one of the best roommates ever had. I would say he acted like himself, not black or white,

but as an individual.

Did have a buddy (during parents weekend at a private school) told me he was going to teach me to walk black. We got some weird looks, but we had some great laughs.

I pretty much describe myself the same way, I act like me. I do what makes me happy, and what I like. If others don't like it, or think I'm trying to be like a certain group of people, they can go to hell.

Joe,

I hate it when women say "Oh, "men" are like this... like that".

The fact is, people form opinions about individiual people/groups concerning just about any identifiable characteristics (clothing, music, art, sports, academics, etc).

The reason? That's their experience... it's their perception.

And the fact is.... you're guilty of stereotyping as well. We all are. In some capacity or another.

Humans experience stimuli and learn. And we make conclusions based on associations. It's in our nature. Right or wrong.

I agree with what you're saying, and I'm not disputing the reason it's done. I know why it happens, I've been guilty of doing it at times, and when I do it, I'll usually try to stop myself. I think the main reason I asked was to see how other people feel about this subject. In-terms of, do they feel that these stereotypes hold water? I mean, in this day and age where this country is such a melting pot of cultures is there really such a thing? If anything I'm acting American.

[Kosher Ham]

Bump. For those that havent responded.

[gube79]

Yo my man, listen closely...

I definitely feel your thoughts and questions. My theory is that white people feel like they can ask or say anything to a black person once they get comfortable around us (this means when they're drunk). I applaud their attempts to get to know us but please don't be ignorant. I am sure you can ask an intelligent question about my people without sounding like a dumb@$$.

Your response to him should have been, "well you're the most ignorant white person I know." I bet you that conversation would have turned sour real quick. Just as a word of advice, White folks (just ignorant ones) feel intimidated by an educated black man. They think we are suppose to act like Lil' Jon, sell drugs and have 8 unfathered children.

So when they see a black person who is evidently living a productive life, they make little sly ass comments (like the one you stated) as a form of discouragement.

Is the media to blame? Well, partly. I say this because we make ourselves look "IGGNANT" at times. Whether if it's in public or private we all have seen some folks who clearly need help. But what race doesn't have a few outcasts?

People watch the muthaf$#%@#g news and think that s%!t is true. We all know that they put the most ignorant folks on blast in interviews and all we see our brothers with their mugshots on the screen for the latest crime.

The news is a business and it is in the business of information and entertainment. Mostly entertainment. But I swear they are in the business of making us look stupid.

They are in a competitive market with other affiliates to get the most viewers. And guess what always gets a bigger audience because of it's entertainment value?...

Our black *****e$!!!

We are unfortunate to be the "Monkey" of the media. They always know they can go to the East side of Baltimore to get a fresh story to fill in a 30 second gap in the 5 oclock news. Something just to make us look like bafoons and make folks fear us more than they do. That's why people hate to see us walking towards them in the mall. That's why we get a bad rep, no good customer service and no help for hurricane relief. So the moment the news stops looking for the latest Pookie and Ray-Ray story, the preconceived notions will cease.

Keep strong and use your brain to have a witty response for the next numb-nut who steps to you. I got your back...

Peace out,

Negrodomus

[chomerics]

Don't you think evil doer is a strong word? I wouldn't call anyone evil for what others willingly go along by.

Do you consider exploitation evil? i do, and if people are exploiting others for personal gain at the DETREMENT of others, then I consider it evil.

That's why I used Joe Camel as an example. There is nothing good that can come of getting children to smoke other then making your salary larger, that is evil in my eyes, but that is just me I guess.

[herrmag]

White folks (just ignorant ones) feel intimidated by an educated black man. They think we are suppose to act like Lil' Jon, sell drugs and have 8 unfathered children.

Umm, no, my friends that are black are educated, just like my friends that are white, and my friends that are whatever. Why would a black man that's educated be intimidating? Hell, I'd prefer that any person I know or meet be educated rather than being some shady mf'er with nothing to lose. That misconception that white people are intimidated by an educated black man is exactly that. A myth.

EDIT: I just noticed you put "ignorant ones" in parenthesis. I think you can add ignorant black people to that list as well.

[Johnny Punani2]

Welcome to my world, fellow Extremers. My parents always taught me to use proper English and act like I had some sense. I was always teased by other black kids by that and black girls thought either I was "trying to be white" or gay. And, yes, I get the "you talk real nice" comments and other crap like that. In fact, just recently, I discovered that some women at my church thought I was guy, and one even suggested that I "lose some of my properness." Believe me, it's very frustrating.

Welcome to the Black culture of personal destruction and negativity. It's cool to sound stupid and act like you are uneducated. And God help you if you are trying to better your life or doing good for yourself. I dunno where this mindset came from but it needs to stop.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Welcome to the Black culture of personal destruction and negativity. It's cool to sound stupid and act like you are uneducated. And God help you if you are trying to better your life or doing good for yourself. I dunno where this mindset came from but it needs to stop.

Exactly! Have you ever seen the Chris Rock Bring the Pain special? If you have his depiction of the way blacks treat others who are just trying to be productive is spot on ... and funny as hell too.

"Look at you! You must think you so smart cuz you in college. You one of them smarty art n----s, ain't you. You think you so smart cuz you can count. I can count too, count them rocks, 1-2-4-5. You ain't ****! If you so smart let me ask you this, can you kick my ass?!" - Chris Rock

[Johnny Punani2]

On this thread: I don't think there is such a thing as acting black or white. Every one is different and has been through different life experiences. That is going to effect people's personalities to some degree. As another poster mentioned, it's human nature to stereotype people and classify them.

[Johnny Punani2]

Exactly! Have you ever seen the Chris Rock Bring the Pain special? If you have his depiction of the way blacks treat others who are just trying to be productive is spot on ... and funny as hell too.

"Look at you! You must think you so smart cuz you in college. You one of them smarty art n----s, ain't you. You think you so smart cuz you can count. I can count too, count them rocks, 1-2-4-5. You ain't ****! If you so smart let me ask you this, can you kick my ass?!" - Chris Rock

Yep, and this midset hasn't been around that long either. It's the culture now. It wasn't like this in the 80's or before. The culture was geared to cultural awareness, improving yourself, and positivity. When negative things were talked about it was to tell what was going on or to inform the public as to the situation.

Chris Rock is dead on with what he is saying. I think everyone sees it. The problem is getting everyone to see this is a problem and to stop it.

[HSW]

Welcome to my world, fellow Extremers. My parents always taught me to use proper English and act like I had some sense. I was always teased by other black kids by that and black girls thought either I was "trying to be white" or gay. And, yes, I get the "you talk real nice" comments and other crap like that. In fact, just recently, I discovered that some women at my church thought I was guy, and one even suggested that I "lose some of my properness." Believe me, it's very frustrating.

Dude, you got a whole lot of "other" issues than acting black or

white if everybody thinks you are gay....

[HSW]

"it just really annoys me when I hear someone say that someone is not "black enough", "acts white", "acts black", etc"

You might want to talk with Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, Thomas Sowell, Ken Blackwell and Michael Steele because they agree with you :applause:

That does not have anything to do with acting white or black,

that has everything to do with advocating policies that most

black people tend to disagree with. There are plenty of black

figures in the media today who "act" the same way as them

and get total respect from the black community...

[HSW]

I've been in the military now for 16 years and have been exposed to all races from all walks of life from all over the world. There is a lot of prejudice, racism and sterotypes out there to deal with. From what I've seen it's usually "white" people being tagged with being racist but I can assure you there are as many if not more blacks that are prejudice against whites. Maybe because of upbringing or incedents in their lives they have a reason to be. The fact of the matter is until we all learn to live with one another it will never go away.

So talking white/black. My problem with this is it almost seems like talking improperly or lazily is becoming acceptable. When writing performance reports in the AF one of the things a person is rated on is how well does he or she communicate with others. If I can't understand you or you talk to someone of authority like they're one of your buddies hanging out in the dorms, how can I give you a high mark. I've seen people who talk to a Colonel the way they'd talk to one of their cousins. Unacceptable, but believe it or not it's starting to be ignored. We call this the dumbing of the AF. I don't why standards are lowered to accomodate a growing population of young adults who don't feel like it's necessary to talk in a manner that's respectful and understandable. If you want to call it talking white then so be it, if you want to call talking lazily with slang words talking black that's on you. I call it talking right and talking crap.

As far as sterotypes go, I'm a white boy from West Virginia who likes to hunt and fish, guess what I'm a redneck. That's all I've heard my entire life. What is a redneck? My definition of a redneck is an ignorant person who doesn't want to speak properly and has a tendancy to dislike everyone who's a different color than him/her. Funny thing is you'll see rednecks driving around in their jacked up trucks with rap thumping through their speaker boxes crammed behind the seats. Ironic isn't it?

Well I'm just a hillbilly raised to treat everyone the same no matter what color they are. Until I joined the military I didn't even know people were as racist as they are. When I left home in 89 we didn't call people black, that was an insult, black people were colored. Sounds crappy but it's true, if you asked a black person what they prefered to be called they would tell you "I'm not black, do I look black to you". Can you imagine the hell I got the first time I called a black person "colored". Thank god it was an older NCO that schooled me before I got my ass whooped.

A young extremely intelligent young black man stationed with me at Andrews AFB was given hell on a daily basis by all the other black men in our shop because he spoke properly and treated people with respect. He listened to rap, rock, country whatever, he's an outcast because of this. He's a southern boy from south Alabama and still speaks clearly and properly because that's how his grandmother raised him. He's an outcast, how is this acceptable?

Interesting post. I have been in the Air Force for 15 years. All your

points are one sided. You single out the case of a black person

being teased by other blacks for "acting white". You could have

just as easily told as many stories about white airman acting "black"

and getting teased about that. I have seen that quite a bit. Let

a white person listen to rap music and wear "urban" gear....as far

as not being professional when talking to superiors...that has

absolutely nothing to do with color. It happens whenever you

have junior enlisted personnel who work with senior folks who

eithor let them get away with it or are overly friendly. Again,

that has absolutely nothing to do with acting "white" or "black".

You are just as likely to encounter a white airman acting that

way as a black airman. The military is full of racism, of all forms.

It is just the way society is. Anyone who thinks otherwise is

fooling himself. All you have to do is watch groups coming out

of a commanders call or a chow hall. 99% of the time the groups

are of one color. Let an attractive white or black female or male

date someone of the opposite sex...you will see and hear

plenty of comments....It is just how things are. For the most

part we all get along.

[AlexRS]

But only those who are looking for it, can see it. Something I am really getting interested in now is the search for the truth behind the fog. Reality is only what mass media wants us to believe reality is, and until people start understanding this, they will continue to be nothing more then pawns who are used by the rich and powerful. It is a cynical way to look at things, but I think it is much closer to the truth, especially when you hear things like the Enron tapes, or read the Abramhoff/Scanlon e-mails. Each thing that is leaked removes a veil, much like Katrina did with FEMA and Bush's posse.

Does it matter if we are pawns of the rich and powerful, pawns of our insincts, pawns of our society, pawns of our habbits, pawns of our beliefs?

You chose to look at us as pawns of the rich and powerful... well, if we ultimately chose to be pawns... then does it really matter what moves us? It could be it rich and powerful, hunger, childhood trauma, or need for conformity... Pawn is there to be moved by something. If the idea is to stop being a pawn.... Then does it matter which particular stimuli moves the pawn? Does it matter who causes that stimuli and why?

Don't get me wrong, I hear you loud and clear... just wanted to generalize it for the sake of this discussion.

I agree there is always another Karl Rove on the horizon, and it is unavoidable that people like this will come to power. What I think we need to do as a society is expose them as frauds, and explain their alterior motives. Leave it up to the individual to decide for themselves the best course of action. This in a way is exposing the lever, but even people who are aware they are being manipulated fail to recognize where and how they are.

I think see what you are saying here. Rove is not The Problem - he merely takes advantage of The Problem. Exposing Roves would not address The Problem directly, but doing so could help open people's eyes to what is really going on. And hopefully reflect on themselves... So maybe this whole Rove business is a good thing :laugh:

:applause:

That's why I posted the IAT test from Harvard, because everyone has social stigmatisims even when they think they don't. I think the most astounding part about the study is that even black people have a bias towards white people, meaning that race isn't the issue, but the way society conditionds us. This bias is something on more of a primitave level in our subconcious which comes from years of conditioning. There is really no true way to eliminate it from society, other then to make people aware of it, and to stop glorifying the "black urban male" criminal mantra. . . watch COPS for a good demonstration of this in action.

The bias is there, but I do not think it comes from conditioning. The bias is there because it is the way our brain processes information. The bias does not come from conditioning. The bias is there already - conditioning brings about the way we deal with it.

We seem hellbent on making everybody the same with Political Correctness and such. As a result we put ourselves in denial and make ourselves more racist.

It was interesting to talk to my father about this.... it was maybe 5 or so years after we came to this country. After being raised with the "everybody is equal" thing (Communism is not evil at heart) he was struggling with racism: "I am not a racist, but if you put me in the middle of a black neibourhood I would be scared for my life." Well you see father, would you feel the same way in a nice black neibourhood? No. Now what about a bad white neibourhood? Yes. So tell me again, how is it racist to worry about safety in a bad neibourhood? I've said it before and I'll say it again. We are all people. Homo Sapiens. Making judgements based on skin color is basically bad science. We make a cause-effect conclusion when looking at a correlation.

[camyj15]

Exactly! Have you ever seen the Chris Rock Bring the Pain special? If you have his depiction of the way blacks treat others who are just trying to be productive is spot on ... and funny as hell too.

"Look at you! You must think you so smart cuz you in college. You one of them smarty art n----s, ain't you. You think you so smart cuz you can count. I can count too, count them rocks, 1-2-4-5. You ain't ****! If you so smart let me ask you this, can you kick my ass?!" - Chris Rock

I've never seen this Chris Rock sketch but from what I'm reading it seems like an extreme example. A couple of years ago, I was staying with a relative in a Section 8 building located in NW Washington, DC. I encountered many many people who didn't have college educations and perhaps hardly any education at all. These people knew I had gone to college. I went out to work everyday (on foot even) some of the others worked, a bunch didn't. I have no doubt that some of these people would be considered the more 'baser' elements of society. Most were quite friendly, they certainly did not menace me about going to college or working or anything. I just think the Chris Rock sketch is an extreme.

[stwasm]

Dude, you got a whole lot of "other" issues than acting black or

white if everybody thinks you are gay....

Excuse me, HSW, the "gay" belief comes from the fact my voice isn't deep like most males and I talk proper.

[HSW]

Excuse me, HSW, the "gay" belief comes from the fact my voice isn't deep like most males and I talk proper.

Not trying to be offensive but if people say they think you are/were

gay that usually comes from your mannerisms not speaking "proper".

If someone says they thought you were gay it is usually because

of the way you walk, speak (not deep or high pitch but the

inflections) the way you dress, the way you gesture with your

hands, etc, etc. Now these do not mean you are gay of course,

this is just another form of sterotyping. Also, there is

nothing wrong with being gay, just not sure why you think that

"proper" speaking makes folks think that you are?

[stwasm]

Not trying to be offensive but if people say they think you are/were

gay that usually comes from your mannerisms not speaking "proper".

If someone says they thought you were gay it is usually because

of the way you walk, speak (not deep or high pitch but the

inflections) the way you dress, the way you gesture with your

hands, etc, etc. Now these do not mean you are gay of course,

this is just another form of sterotyping. Also, there is

nothing wrong with being gay, just not sure why you think that

"proper" speaking makes folks think that you are?

It's not me. I'm just telling you what I've been told. It came from the woman who suggested I "lose some of my properness."

[scskin]

Welcome to my world, fellow Extremers. My parents always taught me to use proper English and act like I had some sense. I was always teased by other black kids by that and black girls thought either I was "trying to be white" or gay. And, yes, I get the "you talk real nice" comments and other crap like that. In fact, just recently, I discovered that some women at my church thought I was guy, and one even suggested that I "lose some of my properness." Believe me, it's very frustrating.

Been there done that, but by the time women get tired of their stereotypical man, they'll come running back to you. You'll be in positon to be in control. Just make sure you are polite when you turn them down

[HSW]

It's not me. I'm just telling you what I've been told. It came from the woman who suggested I "lose some of my properness."

If it was that one woman than f... her. Don't let anyone paint a

portrait of you that is not true. People are always going to try to

put themselves above you...it could be morally, physically, or

mentally...don't let them do it. My friends are the exact opposite...

if you do not use correct grammer we notice you. You are expected

to know how to speak correctly. I will say one thing though, as I get

older I do notice that a lot of guys are acting more and more like

woman....it's getting to the point where you can hardly tell the

difference. I live in DC and going to the mall here is quite an

experience...