Destino Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 The truth about the situation lies in the bottom of a bottle of Jim Beam.lol great advice! Get nice and hammered with him and the truth shall make itself known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 but what if he never tells me? What if he's 45 and still living a lie? Well, if he's going to gay bars, he's not exactly living a lie. One tactic I'd use is to get mad or annoyed when he bashes gays. That might be his way of "testing the waters". If he sees that you laugh along (not accusing you of doing this of course) then he might just keep it to himself. However, if you tell him it's not cool to rip gay people, etc. then maybe he'll see you as an ally and someone he CAN confide in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 it doesnt matter really. Let it lie. I have some friends that I think are gay as well, some gay people I know of said they've seen so and so at some homosexual club meeting or something or another. I don't think it's a big deal, if they arent comfortable, that is their problem. I would not have thought less of any person cause they are gay, even if they feel like that, but if they cant see that, whatever. Just prolly better to let it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 okay so.... I have this friend that I've known since high school. I hang out with him all the time and I'd consider him one of my best friends. I've always thought he was gay...just the way he talks, he's never with girls (though he has a lot of female friends), and he constantly talks bad about gay people. Even though I've known this in my head, I've been acting like I have no idea and never bring the topic up. I mean, I could never PROVE it.Well, another friend of mine from high school that I also went to college with turns out to be bi...I'm not really tight with him (we're friends but haven't hung out since college) but one of my good female friends is...and she went out to dinner with him the other night and he told her he had seen MY friend at a gay bar with another guy but that my friend hadn't seen him (she's friends with my friend too).... So I'm over here like wooow....something to finally prove it. Now...do I bring this up to my friend? I'm not going to love him any less and it may take some getting used to, but there really is no issue with it. I think he hides it because he's from a traditional chinese family and it would definitely be frowned upon. Do I just let him continue pretending he's straight and not say anything when he bashes gay people? I don't want to call him out and I'd like him to tell me when he's ready (if at all) but I also want him to be honest with me and to know that I wouldn't care. How do I approach this? I know this thread can go in a variety of ways, but I hope it will be taken seriously, bc I don't know how to go about it. Wait wait wait...a big time righty with a gay friend?? UH-OH!!! Break out the donkey stickers, you might have to jump ship to support your friend's rights! Back on topic, I would agree with what others have said. However, when he starts to bash gay people, maybe speak up and say something like "you know, ______, I really get uncomfortable when you get all homophobic like that. What's the deal??" And you may be surprised by what he says to you. Other than that, I wouldn't press the issue. He may still think of himself as straight in his own mind, he may be very conflicted. As long as he knows you're there for him and will support whatever decisions he makes, that's all you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Liberty, in my view, pro-gay is when someone is all for gay marriages and gay rights and having a very liberal view of gays. I am not like that, but I really don't want to turn this into a political thread so let's drop that. At the risk of making this thread political -- did you really just say "pro-gay?" How can you honestly think of your friend as a real person if you don't support gay rights? "Yeah, I don't care if my friend is gay, but I don't want him to have the same rights I do." What the hell is that?? "Its all good that you're gay, _____, but you're are forfeiting some of your rights as an American citizen, and will be the subject of hate and bigotry. I hope that's cool with you, because you know, I'm not really 'pro-gay' and all that stuff." Sorry, MissU, it seems a tad ridiculous to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 You are a very conservative poster, because of that, you should mock him relentlessly and make sure he knows he has no rights and is less of a person than someone who is straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 You are a very conservative poster, because of that, you should mock him relentlessly and make sure he knows he has no rights and is less of a person than someone who is straight. :laugh::laugh: that guys no dummy, he knows what he'd be in for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissU28 Posted December 29, 2005 Author Share Posted December 29, 2005 At the risk of making this thread political -- did you really just say "pro-gay?" How can you honestly think of your friend as a real person if you don't support gay rights? "Yeah, I don't care if my friend is gay, but I don't want him to have the same rights I do." What the hell is that?? "Its all good that you're gay, _____, but you're are forfeiting some of your rights as an American citizen, and will be the subject of hate and bigotry. I hope that's cool with you, because you know, I'm not really 'pro-gay' and all that stuff."Sorry, MissU, it seems a tad ridiculous to me... it may seem ridiculous to you, but I don't really care. As years go by my views get a tad more liberal, but I"m sorry, I cannot say that I am for gay rights. If he came out to me, I'd tell him that straight up. It may be hypocritical, but i'm sure I do things that he doesn't totally agree with and that's fine. We all have our differences and we can accept them. The thing with me is even if I don't fully agree with being gay, I can respect it. I just say, "whatever, do what you gotta do, just don't make a huge deal about it". Don't throw it in my face. Just as if he were uncomfortable that I have dated black men...I know people in my life that weren't totally accepting of it, but they respected it and didn't talk sh*t about it to my face and that was fine with me. Despite me knowing their true feelings on the subject, I was able to live my life without caring that much. I'm a very INDIVIDUAL person, Jrock. I believe people need to worry about themselves and stop trying to get the government and everybody else to believe that everything should be PC and that everyone should like the same things and agree to the same things. If people want to be gay, fine. I won't fight for you or against you. Do what you gotta do. If someone were to come and pick a fight with him for it, then I'd step in because he's my friend and I'd be protecting MY FRIEND and not his gayness. If he wanted me to be gung-ho pro-gay and start doing marches on the Mall waving rainbow flags, I'd definitely tell him no. You may believe I'm a hypocrite or something else, but I'd rather take a hands-off approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 I don't think I've ever had any problems with this issue because I'm a very blunt human being. I'll ask people straight up if they are gay and everyone that knows me understand I want to know the truth and am not afraid to ask. If you get offended, you'll get over it or you'll not be my friend and I can live with either outcome. So the only advice I can give you is what I would do - walk up to him and be like "dude I heard you were at a gay club with some other dude. You keeping secrets or what?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissU28 Posted December 29, 2005 Author Share Posted December 29, 2005 So the only advice I can give you is what I would do - walk up to him and be like "dude I heard you were at a gay club with some other dude. You keeping secrets or what?" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 I believe people need to worry about themselves and stop trying to get the government and everybody else to believe that everything should be PC and that everyone should like the same things and agree to the same things. If people want to be gay, fine. I won't fight for you or against you. How can you honestly say this? That people should stop trying to get the government to force everyone to like the same things, when you SUPPORT A GOVERNMENT who wants to do just that?!?? Honestly, how can you say you only support the government when they back YOUR views, but they should stay out of everyone's life when the views oppose yours? Do you not see the glaring contradiction in your post? This is a serious question, and you should seriously take a step out of your mindset and re-evaluate your position. If you say he is a friend, then you should in NO WAY SUPPORT a government who wants to discriminate against him, and you should in fact be a true friend and back him 100%. If he wants to get married to a guy, then you should support his decision, that is what being a friend is all about. If you're against being gay, that's fine, don't be gay. . . but PLEASE, don't say you are against the government intruding into your life, yet support their actions!!! As you mature and get older, hopefully these words will stick with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Guys go easy on MISSU28. She's trying to reach out to a friend and you aren't going to convince anyone you are right by attacking them for not taking as large a step in your direction as you'd have liked. She's moving in the right direction from what I can tell. What is that old saying - you can drown more flies in honey....something like that you know what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissU28 Posted December 29, 2005 Author Share Posted December 29, 2005 How can you honestly say this? That people should stop trying to get the government that everyone should like the same things, when you SUPPORT A GOVERNMENT who wants to do just that?!??Honestly, how can you say you only support the government when they back YOUR views, but they should stay out of everyone's life when the views oppose yours? Do you not see the glaring contradiction in your post? This is a serious question, and you should seriously take a step out of your mindset and re-evaluate your position. If you say he is a friend, then you should in NO WAY SUPPORT a government who wants to discriminate against him, and you should in fact be a true friend and back him 100%. If he wants to get married to a guy, then you should support his decision, that is what being a friend is all about. If you're against being gay, that's fine, don't be gay. . . but PLEASE, don't say you are against the government intruding into your life, yet support their actions!!! As you mature and get older, hopefully these words will stick with you. When have I ever said I supported a government that was in-your-face? 1) The government should be there to do what it needs to do concerning crime, drugs, and education. People rely too much on the government to give them handouts. Yes, yell at me for being heartless. 2) He knows I support our government right now and he knows my views... should I drop him as a friend because of it? He could drop ME if HE were offended by it, but I'm not going to drop him. 3) If we wants to get married to a guy... he can go to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 When have I ever said I supported a government that was in-your-face? Supporting an anti-gay amendment is exactly that. The entire bill of "preserving the sanctity of marriage" is shoving the government down a gay persons throat. Are you telling me that you DON'T support the government passing a law which bans gay marriage? This is what you are inferring, and I brought it out to your attention. So far, I have not read a single post where you stated that you were against the government banning gay marriage. In fact, everything you have stated infers the opposite. 1) The government should be there to do what it needs to do concerning crime, drugs, and education. People rely too much on the government to give them handouts. Yes, yell at me for being heartless. I agree, but you miss the boat on who gets the "handouts", that would be the corporations right now. Take a look at the budget, a $50billion dollar cut to services, and a $60 billion dollar tax break for corporate America, so even when they cut services, they can't stop their version of corporate welfare. You just refuse to believe that republicans support a welfare state, well, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the republicans are more to blame for giving money away then the democrats. Do you want to know the difference between a democrat and a republican? The democrat will give our money to a poor person, and a republican will give it to a rich person. I would rather if my money was going somewhere, it would go to the poor person, because it makes society better, and more educated, but that's just me. . . 2) He knows I support our government right now and he knows my views... should I drop him as a friend because of it? He could drop ME if HE were offended by it, but I'm not going to drop him. I never said you should drop him as a friend, I said you should BE a friend. And that means supporting HIM, not your ideology. You know him personally, and if he really loved another man, wouldn't you want him to be happy? Wouldn't you want him to have the same rights you would with your husband? Being a friend means standing by the person through thick and thin, and yes, sometimes it means breaking your precious "value system". If you are a friend with a gay person, and you are a true friend, you should in no way support the asinine sanctity of marriage BS. A true friend would stick by him no matter what, even if it means your own suffering, or god forbid, breaking your own values and straying from the rhetorical drumbeat of politics. You are an individual with individual thoughts and beliefs, you should think for yourself. You don't have to march lock step and barrel with your ideology all the time. You should have the ability to think for yourself and say "hey, my friend Joe is gay, but he is still my friend. He deserves the same rights I do. I may not approve of his lifestyle, but I will not approve of my government telling me who can and can not be happy". That is what being a friend is all about, not just the fact that he is gay, but the fact that he is your friend. The gay part should be secondary to your friendship. 3) If we wants to get married to a guy... he can go to Canada. Or Massachusetts!!!!! And I am god damn proud he can move here and get married!!!! :rant: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Guys go easy on MISSU28. She's trying to reach out to a friend and you aren't going to convince anyone you are right by attacking them for not taking as large a step in your direction as you'd have liked. She's moving in the right direction from what I can tell. What is that old saying - you can drown more flies in honey....something like that you know what I'm saying. Sometimes bluntness is the best approach. . .I am well expecting to be trounced for the last post, but it was all for the best and hopefully MissU28 will take some of what I said to heart and start to think outside the bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Good job to a fellow Duke for trying to sort out tough issues with no clear-cut answer. You may find that in spending more time with this person, you will eventually turn "pro-gay," as you so put it. Leave it up to him to tell you if he is or not, I do not think he will ever mention it because he wants to hang out with you despite you "prejudices." It will only be an issue if one of you decides to make it one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 it may seem ridiculous to you, but I don't really care. As years go by my views get a tad more liberal, but I"m sorry, I cannot say that I am for gay rights. If he came out to me, I'd tell him that straight up. It may be hypocritical, but i'm sure I do things that he doesn't totally agree with and that's fine. We all have our differences and we can accept them. The thing with me is even if I don't fully agree with being gay, I can respect it. I just say, "whatever, do what you gotta do, just don't make a huge deal about it". Don't throw it in my face. Just as if he were uncomfortable that I have dated black men...I know people in my life that weren't totally accepting of it, but they respected it and didn't talk sh*t about it to my face and that was fine with me. Despite me knowing their true feelings on the subject, I was able to live my life without caring that much. I'm a very INDIVIDUAL person, Jrock. I believe people need to worry about themselves and stop trying to get the government and everybody else to believe that everything should be PC and that everyone should like the same things and agree to the same things. If people want to be gay, fine. I won't fight for you or against you. Do what you gotta do. If someone were to come and pick a fight with him for it, then I'd step in because he's my friend and I'd be protecting MY FRIEND and not his gayness. If he wanted me to be gung-ho pro-gay and start doing marches on the Mall waving rainbow flags, I'd definitely tell him no. You may believe I'm a hypocrite or something else, but I'd rather take a hands-off approach. To me, there is no gray area when it comes to friendship and accepting your friends for who they are. How can you honestly say you are his friend, if you don't support gay rights? I mean...just by saying you don't support gay rights you're admitting you are prejudiced against gays -- and thus are prejudiced against your friends. Its interesting that you bring up that you've dated black guys; so you obviously see the parallels in the two situations. So if you know that gays are predjudiced against just as much (if not more in this day and age) as black dudes (and mixed-couples), how can you support that type of predjudice? And if I was dating a black chick, and one of my friends had a problem with it, he probably wouldn't be my friend anymore. But hey, that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissU28 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 To me, there is no gray area when it comes to friendship and accepting your friends for who they are. How can you honestly say you are his friend, if you don't support gay rights? I mean...just by saying you don't support gay rights you're admitting you are prejudiced against gays -- and thus are prejudiced against your friends.Its interesting that you bring up that you've dated black guys; so you obviously see the parallels in the two situations. So if you know that gays are predjudiced against just as much (if not more in this day and age) as black dudes (and mixed-couples), how can you support that type of predjudice? And if I was dating a black chick, and one of my friends had a problem with it, he probably wouldn't be my friend anymore. But hey, that's just me. I can be his friend and not support gay rights because I look at him as a whole person, not JUST the fact that he's gay. My best friend used to be a pot head in high school and I never tried the stuff. Should I have dropped her just because I didn't agree with her decision? No, it didn't change who she was and I didn't like her any less. Which is how I view this situation. I do see parallels between this situation and my own...but what am I exactly doing to prejudice him? I'm neither doing anything for or against the whole situation...I'm putting my biases aside and saying, hey, do what works for you. Chomerics went a lot more into detail about my feelings on gay rights and I'll get on that in a minute. But honestly, right now this is what works for me. I'm not changing my views because you all tell me to. I'm a very stubborn person. My family has made comments to me about dating black guys before...not mean comments or anything, but they didn't really understand my choices. For some reason I feel you guys think of me as this gay basher, and that's not the case. I've said in my posts that I'm just going to let it lie and not fight for it or against it. In your view, that should be better than me going on the streets with picket signs trashing gays. And not to "trounce" on chomerics, but I'd like to respond.... I support my government. I support President Bush. Do I support 100% of what he does or what the government is rallying for? No. Did you approve 100% of what Clinton did or what his administration stood for? Of course not. I am liberal on a few issues...not extremely liberal but there are issues where I lean towards the left. Am I allowed to pick and choose what issues I am conservative towards and which issues I am liberal towards? Yes. Am I allowed to choose HOW liberal or HOW conservative I am on issues? Yes. THAT BEING SAID...while I may not be "pro-gay", I wouldn't call myself "anti-gay" either. I never said anywhere that I was against all gay rights. Am I going to go out and pickett the anti-gay marriage bill? No. There's no fire blazing inside me about either side of the issue. I'm being Switzerland here. When I look at this I keep my friend and the fact that he is gay a separate issue. You are all keeping the two synonymous. It is like what we learned in our Special Education classes in grad school. You should always use "person-first" language...and I think that should carry through not just language, but how we look at people as well. For example, we learned that we should not label kids "special-needs children"...they should be called "children with special needs". I am not calling my friend "gay _______" . He is "_______ who happens to be gay." THAT is how I am able to support him and not be 100% pro-gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 It sounds like the rest of these posters have dissected your dilemma pretty well....so I won't bother....that being said........he's sounds pretty lucky to have you as a friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 It sounds like the rest of these posters have dissected your dillema pretty well....so I won't bother....that being said........he's pretty lucky to have you as a friend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissU28 Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 he's pretty lucky to have you as a friend.. are you being serious or sarcastic here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 are you being serious or sarcastic here? I'm serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 are you being serious or sarcastic here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 When I look at this I keep my friend and the fact that he is gay a separate issue. You are all keeping the two synonymous. That's because they ARE synonoymous. The fact that he IS gay and the fact that you do NOT support his rights IS an issue, and it is a glaringly obvious one. What is the old saying, you need to :pooh: or get off the pot? Either you support him as a friend, which means you are FOR him being happy, or you are not his friend, he is just somebody you know who happens to be gay. It is like what we learned in our Special Education classes in grad school. You should always use "person-first" language...and I think that should carry through not just language, but how we look at people as well. For example, we learned that we should not label kids "special-needs children"...they should be called "children with special needs". When you use this as an example, then you stated earlier in this thread: "stop trying to get the government and everybody else to believe that everything should be PC" you are contradicting your self again. You may not see it as a contradiction, but it is glaringly obvious for many of us here. I am not calling my friend "gay _______" . He is "_______ who happens to be gay." THAT is how I am able to support him and not be 100% pro-gay. You are missing the point completely, but being against gay rights, you are not supporting him. That is what both Rockster & I are talking about. What we are pointing out to you is that you can't have it both ways. You can't say he is my friend, but I think gay people are wrong, and they should not be able to get married in our country. It is not a grey area, either you are for his rights of you are not. No Switzerland, either you support your friend in his life, or you are not his friend. That is what being a friend is all about. You value his friendship over your beliefs, and you put him first. If you really want to be his friend, and you really want him to truly be happy, then you need to support him 100%. Has it ever dawned on you that the reason he HASN'T come out of the closet is BECAUSE of your views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 ...What we are pointing out to you is that you can't have it both ways. You can't say he is my friend, but I think gay people are wrong, and they should not be able to get married in our country. It is not a grey area, either you are for his rights of you are not. No Switzerland, either you support your friend in his life, or you are not his friend. That is what being a friend is all about. You value his friendship over your beliefs, and you put him first. If you really want to be his friend, and you really want him to truly be happy, then you need to support him 100%.... No Young Skywalker, liberals don't believe in absolutes only evil conservative Sith Lords. Chomerics, you are getting more conservative it seems with your absolute "right and wrong" views. MissU28, I think you should take Destino's recommendation and be open to him about your feelings. If you don't agree with it just tell him. And yes you can still be friends with him. Z _______________________________ http://www.wayofthemaster.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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