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Does the Government care about domestic terrorism?


Burgold

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Of course they do, but isn't it strange that they have spent so little time, effort, money to protect our borders, docks, trainstations, subways, and points of security. Even many military bases only require the quick flash of a Driver's licence to get in and then leave you free to go whereever you want to unescorted. Now to top it off, they have decided that scissors, knives, tools (and with the description we heard) presumeably box cutters are going to be permissable in your carry-on luggage again. Why? The reason they said on the news was that making the screeners check for this was expensive and inconvenient.

Seriously, combine this with the border issues and do you really think that the Government is taking the threat of domestic security all that seriously? They spend more money tracking PETA and Quaker groups than they do on improving harbor safeguards. (Hopefully, that's an exageration)

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Not Even Ft Belvoir in Virginia political capital area will let you in with a Drivers License flip...

AND: Before 9/11: your safe, let them take the plane..

After 9/11 they will ram you into a building...

Now 2 terrorist with two pearl handled colt 45's each couldnt take over a plane..

WOULD YOU sit in your seat and with the other 200+ people and let it happen now?

No chance...

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The term "domestic terrorism" is misleading. It implies domestic terrorists. There certainly are domestic terrorists -- Friends of the Earth FOE, PeTA, etc. -- but that is not the sort of thing you are describing.

Scissors or knives on airplanes are not a significant threat. They weren't even a significant threat on 9/11. The only reason terrorists were able to be successful with boxcutters is that the groundwork for it had been laid, mostly by liberals. (That's not a gratuitous insult.)

For years, liberals have been largely successful in getting two compounding myths permeated throughout society. One, that we shouldn't fight back. Give the bad guy what he wants and you're less likely to be harmed, but if you fight back you're more likely to be killed. And any time there was a news story about a grandmother shooting the intruder or something like that, it was always accompanied by an admonition from the local police chief saying that it was lucky things turned out well this time, but you shouldn't try it because it's just too dangerous. Couple that with the liberal aversion to guns (they succeeded in getting them banned on aircraft, in public buildings, parks, etc.), and you have a population that was disarmed and conditioned to not defend themselves. In that environment, boxcutters were sufficient to wreak havock.

Today, there is a greater chance that a flight will have a Federal Marshall or a pilot with a gun, so the tiny scissors aren't too much of a threat.

Your other points about the borders and other infrastructure are well taken.

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Guest sith lord
The term "domestic terrorism" is misleading. It implies domestic terrorists. There certainly are domestic terrorists -- Friends of the Earth FOE, PeTA, etc. -- but that is not the sort of thing you are describing.

Scissors or knives on airplanes are not a significant threat. They weren't even a significant threat on 9/11. The only reason terrorists were able to be successful with boxcutters is that the groundwork for it had been laid, mostly by liberals. (That's not a gratuitous insult.)

For years, liberals have been largely successful in getting two compounding myths permeated throughout society. One, that we shouldn't fight back. Give the bad guy what he wants and you're less likely to be harmed, but if you fight back you're more likely to be killed. And any time there was a news story about a grandmother shooting the intruder or something like that, it was always accompanied by an admonition from the local police chief saying that it was lucky things turned out well this time, but you shouldn't try it because it's just too dangerous. Couple that with the liberal aversion to guns (they succeeded in getting them banned on aircraft, in public buildings, parks, etc.), and you have a population that was disarmed and conditioned to not defend themselves. In that environment, boxcutters were sufficient to wreak havock.

Today, there is a greater chance that a flight will have a Federal Marshall or a pilot with a gun, so the tiny scissors aren't too much of a threat.

Your other points about the borders and other infrastructure are well taken.

You're blaiming liberals for 9/11? You can't be serious. And how is a knife or a pair of scissors on an airplane not a significant threat?

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Even many military bases only require the quick flash of a Driver's licence to get in and then leave you free to go whereever you want to unescorted.

Do you copy and paste your "America is quickly dieing" threads from Liberal underground messageboards? Serious question.

Reason being is you always post things which look at situations in the worst light and you ALWAYS have one or two things which are categorically wrong. Like the statement above.

So I ask you, which military bases have YOU personally drove on with only a quick flash of a driver's license? I'll eagerly await your response.

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You're blaiming liberals for 9/11? You can't be serious. And how is a knife or a pair of scissors on an airplane not a significant threat?
I'm not blaming liberals for 9/11, I'm blaming them for creating the environment in which 9/11 was possible. You need to read my post more carefully.

And a tiny knife or tiny scissors are not a significant threat if the pilot is packing heat. Haven't you ever heard the wisdom "don't bring a knife to a gun fight"?

In spite of liberals' previous efforts, people are now more willing to fight back, and there are now more guns on airplanes (not nearly enough in my opinion, but more than there used to be.)

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I'm not blaming liberals for 9/11, I'm blaming them for creating the environment in which 9/11 was possible. You need to read my post more carefully.

And a tiny knife or tiny scissors are not a significant threat if the pilot is packing heat. Haven't you ever heard the wisdom "don't bring a knife to a gun fight"?

In spite of liberals' previous efforts, people are now more willing to fight back, and there are now more guns on airplanes (not nearly enough in my opinion, but more than there used to be.)

Liberals are bad and hate America.

Guns solve all problems.

Duh!!!

:doh:

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Liberals are bad and hate America.

Guns solve all problems.

Duh!!!

:doh:

What's wrong with guns, Joey? Serious question.

Don't tell me you are for gun control? If so, provide me your rationale as to why I shouldn't be able to own one when our founding fathers specifically provided me that right.

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I can tell you that I've gotten onto Camp Pendleton just by using my driver's licence. I was being a little flip with my "flip" comment, but basically, I drove in showed my driver's licence told them where I was heading, they wrote down my licence plate number and driver's licence number and I was off. The same proceduce was essentially repeated at Andrews, Balboa Military Hospital, Walter Reed and Bethesda Naval. Disbelieve it if you want. One of the things that most Americans don't know at Walter Reed at least is that the security at the gates on Georgia and 16th Streets are rent-a-cops. They are not professional soldiers, marines, or servicemen of any sort. I've been told by guys recovering at Walter Reed. Possible they were pulling my leg, but I've been told my different sources at different times, so I believe them. Further, my entrance to these military bases and hospitals is usually unaccompanied by anyone with a military ID.

Anywho, maybe I've been lucky or caught them on a good day, but I've seen very lax security in places I've gone in to volunteer and pitch in.

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Liberals are bad and hate America.

Guns solve all problems.

Duh!!!

:doh:

I know this is hard for you to accept, but I didn't say anything about liberals hating America.

Neither did I say anything about guns solving all problems. But if I'd been on one of those aircraft with my 5-shot Taurus revolver, there would have been 5 dead terrorists and one more building left standing. That is a problem that most definitely would have been soved by a gun.

And you apparently continue to buy into the liberal myths I described earlier. You are becoming irrelevant.

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More to the point, even if box cutters and scissors don't provide a serious threat, do you see the point of the reversal? Why make it easier at all? Why allow anything that has in the past successfully been used as a weapon on? Has anyone really been harmed because they haven't been allowed to take a phillips screwdriver with their carry ons?

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Guest sith lord
I'm not blaming liberals for 9/11, I'm blaming them for creating the environment in which 9/11 was possible. You need to read my post more carefully.

And a tiny knife or tiny scissors are not a significant threat if the pilot is packing heat. Haven't you ever heard the wisdom "don't bring a knife to a gun fight"?

In spite of liberals' previous efforts, people are now more willing to fight back, and there are now more guns on airplanes (not nearly enough in my opinion, but more than there used to be.)

Since when does pilots "pack heat"? Anyway, don't under estimate these terrorist. I don't have the criminal mind, but I could even get around that. Also, they have one advantage that we will never have. Most of them aren't afraid to take a bullet for their cause.

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More to the point, even if box cutters and scissors don't provide a serious threat, do you see the point of the reversal? Why make it easier at all? Why allow anything that has in the past successfully been used as a weapon on? Has anyone really been harmed because they haven't been allowed to take a phillips screwdriver with their carry ons?
How many times, other than on 9/11, have phillips screwdrivers or boxcutters been used as weapons on planes?

If your only example is 9/11, isn't it a bit irrational to ban something that could be used as a weapon because it was used as a weapon once?

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Blue Talon,

How many times other than 9/11 has there been a sucessful attack by foreign terrorists in the continental United States. If you care about domestic safety you don't take away a measure that has been effective or at least not inconvenienced anyone for three years and then revert to the system that led to the biggest disaster.

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Since when does pilots "pack heat"? Anyway, don't under estimate these terrorist. I don't have the criminal mind, but I could even get around that. Also, they have one advantage that we will never have. Most of them aren't afraid to take a bullet for their cause.
Since shortly after 9/11, Congress authorized pilots to carry firearms, though the DOT has dragged its feet in implementing it. And not all pilots will carry, most likely, as probably not all pilots are comfortable carrying a gun.

But your point about taking a bullet is borderline braindead -- once they take a bullet, their tiny scissors aren't going to do them much good.

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Blue Talon,

How many times other than 9/11 has there been a sucessful attack by foreign terrorists in the continental United States. If you care about domestic safety you don't take away a measure that has been effective or at least not inconvenienced anyone for three years and then revert to the system that led to the biggest disaster.

Let me try this again.

Before 9/11, society was trained to not carry guns and to not resist bad guys. After 9/11, people have figured out that the previous approach didn't work, so they are now more willing to fight back. And whereas before there were NO guns on airplanes, now there are some guns on airplanes.

What that means is that the environment that existed before (mostly as a result of liberal policy) in which the events of 9/11 were possible, that environment no longer exists. Since that environment no longer exists, the presence or absence of small knives or scissors is a non-factor.

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Guest sith lord
Since shortly after 9/11, Congress authorized pilots to carry firearms, though the DOT has dragged its feet in implementing it. And not all pilots will carry, most likely, as probably not all pilots are comfortable carrying a gun.

But your point about taking a bullet is borderline braindead -- once they take a bullet, their tiny scissors aren't going to do them much good.

What I'm saying is that you might have one pilot with a gun. You might have 6 or more terrorist, that aren't afraid of dying, rushing the ****pit. Is the pilot gonna shoot every last one? I doubt it.

Your argument might make more sense if there were like 2 or 3 marshals or pilots with guns, but one person with a gun against 6 or more lunatics, the lunatics are gonna have the advantage.

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Guest sith lord
Let me try this again.

Before 9/11, society was trained to not carry guns and to not resist bad guys. After 9/11, people have figured out that the previous approach didn't work, so they are now more willing to fight back. And whereas before there were NO guns on airplanes, now there are some guns on airplanes.

What that means is that the environment that existed before (mostly as a result of liberal policy) in which the events of 9/11 were possible, that environment no longer exists. Since that environment no longer exists, the presence or absence of small knives or scissors is a non-factor.

Some flights did have armed marshals before 9/11. I think pilots were banned from having guns on planes just before 9/11.

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I can tell you that I've gotten onto Camp Pendleton just by using my driver's licence. I was being a little flip with my "flip" comment, but basically, I drove in showed my driver's licence told them where I was heading, they wrote down my licence plate number and driver's licence number and I was off. The same proceduce was essentially repeated at Andrews, Balboa Military Hospital, Walter Reed and Bethesda Naval. Disbelieve it if you want. One of the things that most Americans don't know at Walter Reed at least is that the security at the gates on Georgia and 16th Streets are rent-a-cops. They are not professional soldiers, marines, or servicemen of any sort. I've been told by guys recovering at Walter Reed. Possible they were pulling my leg, but I've been told my different sources at different times, so I believe them. Further, my entrance to these military bases and hospitals is usually unaccompanied by anyone with a military ID.

Anywho, maybe I've been lucky or caught them on a good day, but I've seen very lax security in places I've gone in to volunteer and pitch in.

Sorry dude, been to Andrews numerous times. No way you just get on with a drivers license unless MAYBE you already have a sticker, then I still can't see it

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