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CHOICE?/Teen's abortion prompts lawsuit /cincynews.com


twa

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Not to start another abortion debate,but I would like opinion's on whether clinics should conceal cases of rape/statutory rape?

Is it a matter of Choice/privacy/or simply a crime?

I know it is illegal,but there is evidence it is a common practice here:

http://www.childpredators.com/ReadReport.cfm

http://www.plannedparenthoodexposed.com/

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050330/NEWS01/503300348

Wednesday, March 30, 2005

Teen's abortion prompts lawsuit

By Kimball Perry

Post staff reporter

ADVERTISEMENT

A Hamilton County couple is suing Planned Parenthood of Southwest Ohio and six of its employees, accusing them of performing an abortion on the couple's 14-year-old daughter without their consent or knowledge, in violation of Ohio law.

Had Planned Parenthood or the unnamed employees "discharged their statutory duties by giving notice to, or seeking consent from, one or both parents, the abortion would not have taken place," stated the suit filed Tuesday in Hamilton County Common Pleas Court by attorney Thomas W. Condit.

Sue Momeyer, president of the Planned Parenthood Southwest Ohio Region, knew nothing of the suit when contacted Tuesday. She did say, though, that her agency's policies adhere to Ohio statutes.

"We completely study and follow the law," Momeyer said. "Nobody even gets into our building without a picture ID. We provide parental notification. We certainly have systems in place that ensure we follow the law."

But that was not the case for the 14-year-old, the suit charged, whose name and that of her parents are listed as "Roe" in the litigation - now under seal - to protect their privacy.

The girl was 13, the suit noted, when a 21-year-old impregnated her in December 2003 or January 2004. The man, now serving a prison sentence after he was convicted of sexual battery for having sex with the girl, also was referred to with a pseudonym in the suit.

"Upon learning that (the girl) was pregnant," the suit noted, "(the man) coerced her into seeking an abortion."

In a March 29, 2004, call to Planned Parenthood, the man attempted to arrange an appointment for the girl to have an abortion, the suit stated.

After being instructed that only the girl could make such an appointment, the suit added, the man directed her to call and arrange for an abortion the next day.

He drove the girl - who had turned 14 by that time - to the agency's Mount Auburn facility March 30 for the abortion even though the girl "did not want to have an abortion," the suit added.

Because the man told Planned Parenthood workers he was her stepbrother, the agency didn't contact her parents - even though she gave her father's name and address to the agency, the suit noted.

Performing the abortion without notifying or getting permission from her parents is illegal in Ohio, Condit said.

"The conduct of (Planned Parenthood and its employees) in providing safe harbor for (the man) for his sexual crimes against a minor child and for aiding and abetting his goal of pressuring (the girl) into aborting her child, was extreme and outrageous conduct that goes beyond the bounds of decency and is utterly intolerable in a civilized community," Condit wrote.

That conduct, he added, was designed to get around the parental notification laws and conceal the identity of a man "who had committed statutory rape and sexual battery against a minor child."

The abortion caused the parents great physical and emotional injury and loss, including depriving them of becoming grandparents, the suit noted.

The suit seeks unspecified monetary damages in excess of $25,000.

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IMO:

  1. I'd be willing to bet that there's a law in Ohio that health care providers are required to notify law enforcement if there's evidence of child molestation. (And I'd bet that pregnancy constitutes evidence of sex.) Regardless of how you feel about parental notification, they concealed the rape of a child.
  2. OTOH, if they'd followed those laws and notified the parents and law enforcement, then she'd be pregnant, and she'd be getting dragged into court to re-live the event for the next year, in front of witnesses. (IMO, one of the drawbacks of what I call "zero judgement" laws: I think the victim should have some say in what they think is the best response to a crime.)
  3. Had Planned Parenthood or the unnamed employees "discharged their statutory duties by giving notice to, or seeking consent from, one or both parents, the abortion would not have taken place,"
    An excellent reason why I oppose parental notification laws: Too many parents who think that a raped, pregnant daughter is an acceptable outcome, if it will make sex as dangerous as possible for other people.

So, if the girl were now (still) pregnant, (and, perhaps more significantly, if she were pregnamt because of her parent's orders), would the world be a better place right now? Or worse?

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IMO:

  1. I'd be willing to bet that there's a law in Ohio that health care providers are required to notify law enforcement if there's evidence of child molestation. (And I'd bet that pregnancy constitutes evidence of sex.) Regardless of how you feel about parental notification, they concealed the rape of a child.
  2. OTOH, if they'd followed those laws and notified the parents and law enforcement, then she'd be pregnant, and she'd be getting dragged into court to re-live the event for the next year, in front of witnesses. (IMO, one of the drawbacks of what I call "zero judgement" laws: I think the victim should have some say in what they think is the best response to a crime.)

  3. An excellent reason why I oppose parental notification laws: Too many parents who think that a raped, pregnant daughter is an acceptable outcome, if it will make sex as dangerous as possible for other people.

So, if the girl were now (still) pregnant, (and, perhaps more significantly, if she were pregnamt because of her parent's orders), would the world be a better place right now? Or worse?

I think your first two points are good, but I disagree with premise of the third. You show me any parent who thinks "that a raped, pregnant daughter is an acceptable outcome, if it will make sex as dangerous as possible for other people", and I'll show you a hick with poisonous snakes in his church. No reasonable, rational parent would think the way you describe. The question, from the parent's perspective, would more likely be whether the tragedy of the daughter's rape would be helped or simply compounded by an abortion. The daughter, in this case, didn't want the abortion, and was pressured into it by a guy who apparently wanted the fun of sex without the responsibilities of fatherhood (an whose nuts should be cracked, IMO).

For the daughter, it is arguable that she would have been better off if she'd have carried the baby to term and given it up for adoption. (The baby certainly would have been better off!) And the family receiving such a baby would have been better off.

There's another aspect to this (abortion in general, not necessarily this case) that is never talked about, and that's the risk of physical damage or death to the girl by the abortion procedure itself. No medical procedure is 100% safe. People occasionally die from frikkin knee surgery or getting their tonsils removed. And we're supposed to believe that 30 million+ abortions have been performed with no adverse effects on the women/girls receiving them? That smacks of covering up/non-reporting/disguising data. Which is in character, given Planned Parenthood's propensity for skirting the law and misdirecting talk.

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I think your first two points are good, but I disagree with premise of the third. You show me any parent who thinks "that a raped, pregnant daughter is an acceptable outcome, if it will make sex as dangerous as possible for other people", and I'll show you a hick with poisonous snakes in his church. No reasonable, rational parent would think the way you describe. The question, from the parent's perspective, would more likely be whether the tragedy of the daughter's rape would be helped or simply compounded by an abortion. The daughter, in this case, didn't want the abortion, and was pressured into it by a guy who apparently wanted the fun of sex without the responsibilities of fatherhood (an whose nuts should be cracked, IMO).

For the daughter, it is arguable that she would have been better off if she'd have carried the baby to term and given it up for adoption. (The baby certainly would have been better off!) And the family receiving such a baby would have been better off.

1 - You assume most parents would put their child above their ideology. One would hope that the case but in most pro-life home in my experience, abortion is not an option even if the daughter should want one. Personally I have a huge problem with someone who's gaurdian status expires in 2-4 years (in the case of a 14 year old) making a choice that very easily could result in 18 years of responsibility at least. One can argue parents should be told but the person pregnant should make the call.

2 - I find it interesting that the parents are now demanding to have been given the chance to make choices for their daughter. Where the hell were they when their 13 year old daughter was spending a lot of time with Johnny Rapist.....at 13 years old. Dude I couldn't go to the store without my mom freakin out and coming to look for me if I took too long at that age.

3 - Nuts cracked is a good start.

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1 - You assume most parents would put their child above their ideology. One would hope that the case but in most pro-life home in my experience, abortion is not an option even if the daughter should want one. Personally I have a huge problem with someone who's gaurdian status expires in 2-4 years (in the case of a 14 year old) making a choice that very easily could result in 18 years of responsibility at least. One can argue parents should be told but the person pregnant should make the call.

2 - I find it interesting that the parents are now demanding to have been given the chance to make choices for their daughter. Where the hell were they when their 13 year old daughter was spending a lot of time with Johnny Rapist.....at 13 years old. Dude I couldn't go to the store without my mom freakin out and coming to look for me if I took too long at that age.

3 - Nuts cracked is a good start.

Your point #2 (and #3!) is a very good point. But I think it's dangerous to assume anything in this particular case. Generally speaking, I think if parent's don't care enough about their children to supervise them and check on them, they probably won't care enough to make a big deal about an abortion.

There are a couple things wrong with your point #1. Legally, our society is mostly structured so that the parents have legal responsibility for their children until they're 18. Well, either they have the responsibility or they don't. It seems to me that people on your side of the issue, generally speaking, want a girl under the age of 18 to make up her own mind on the subject of abortion -- but those same people would freak at the suggestion that we should allow that same girl to buy a gun at that age.

What I would like to see is a societal adjustment, if girls are to be allowed to make their own decisions on a matter this serious. If the girl takes it upon herself to make that decision, then she should be granted all the rights and responsibilities of adulthood at that point, and the parents should be relieved of their legal responsibilities as guardians.

Until that happens (and even afterward), I want to see the males that put girls in situations like this get castrated.

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Legally, our society is mostly structured so that the parents have legal responsibility for their children until they're 18. Well, either they have the responsibility or they don't. It seems to me that people on your side of the issue, generally speaking, want a girl under the age of 18 to make up her own mind on the subject of abortion -- but those same people would freak at the suggestion that we should allow that same girl to buy a gun at that age.

I see what you are saying but my reasoning is simple: The baby isn't going to vanish when the girl turns 18. The choice will outlast her parents legal status (by 14 years), and will effect every factor of the girls early adult life. It's like signing up your son for a 18 year trip on his 14th brithday. Yeah you get to make the choices for him at that age, but you're now removing his input from his ADULT life as well.

I respect your point of view though, and in this case the law is on your side. The law in this case called for the clinic to notify the parents and they failed to do so. The law is the law and agree with it or not you have to follow it.

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Destino,on your 1st point there is always the option for the girl to go before a judge(I realise this would be a difficult choice)and if she has parents that she feels are not reasonable this might be best.

As far as the child not dissapearing when she turns eighteen?

NO ONE can be forced to raise a child,even a minor by her parents.

It can be given up or placed in the girl's parents care.

Points 2&3 I agree completely .

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Both sides make good points, so there is not a clear cut answer. On the one hand if reporting was always done then some girls might not even come to the clinic, on the other hand if it isn't done than potential rapists go on as a danger to others. So basically... I don't know.

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This part of the report is extremely disturbing to me personally:

http://www.childpredators.com/ReadReport.cfm

According to the most reliable studies, among girls 15 and younger who become pregnant, between 60 and 80 percent of them are impregnated by adult men.2

We have also uncovered data showing that as the age of the victim goes down, the age of the perpetrator goes up.3

:2cents: I can somewhat understand kids being kids and sexual activity happening within thier age groups, HOWEVER adults that prey on minors are scum and every effort sholud be made to remove them from society.

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Good points made by all. Another consideration: The article said that the young man told the clinic that he was her step brother. Unless I missed it, that was never confirmed or denied. If he is her step brother then either the girl's father or mother is his parent. The notification laws don't always take into account the volatile situations that can take place inside of families. I have known several women who have had abortions when they were younger and who had very good reasons not to tell their parents.

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Good points made by all. Another consideration: The article said that the young man told the clinic that he was her step brother. Unless I missed it, that was never confirmed or denied. If he is her step brother then either the girl's father or mother is his parent. The notification laws don't always take into account the volatile situations that can take place inside of families. I have known several women who have had abortions when they were younger and who had very good reasons not to tell their parents.
The guy "told" them he was a step brother, but the implication was that he made it up, in order to insert himself into the abortion clinic and the decision making process (and apparently, to dissuade the clinic workers to contact the parents), as he'd already been rejected when he originally tried to schedule the abortion. Notice that he did not tell them that when he originally called.
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This part of the report is extremely disturbing to me personally:

http://www.childpredators.com/ReadReport.cfm

According to the most reliable studies, among girls 15 and younger who become pregnant, between 60 and 80 percent of them are impregnated by adult men.2

We have also uncovered data showing that as the age of the victim goes down, the age of the perpetrator goes up.3

:2cents: I can somewhat understand kids being kids and sexual activity happening within thier age groups, HOWEVER adults that prey on minors are scum and every effort sholud be made to remove them from society.

If this is true, how can anyone argue against parental notification laws. This is such a stupid debate. Children should not be having sex. This is the fault of the parents, to be sure. Children shouldn't be able to have an abortion without parental notification. If a girl is raped by her father and becomes pregnant, he's gonna be escorting her to the abortion clinic. So that argument doesn't hold water, IMO.

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Good points made by all. Another consideration: The article said that the young man told the clinic that he was her step brother. Unless I missed it, that was never confirmed or denied. If he is her step brother then either the girl's father or mother is his parent. The notification laws don't always take into account the volatile situations that can take place inside of families. I have known several women who have had abortions when they were younger and who had very good reasons not to tell their parents.

I assume by "volatile" ypu mean physcicaly afraid or even worse pregnant by a family member?

If so, I would think that would be even more reason for reporting it to the authorities...Simple for me to sit here and say that though :(

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First, we are not talking about children. We are talking about a 14 year old. A 14 year old is not a child. And yes, they should be able to have what is essentially a simple medical procedure without having to tell their parents.

An abortion is unlike any other medical procedure or issue because it involves intensely personal matters. Having to notify parents may have a negative impact on a young woman's relationship with one or more of her parents for the rest of her life. That should be her decision. Of course, it would be nice if the world was all like Leave It To Beaver, but it's not. I never shared my sex life with my parents. Not ever. I would have been mortified to have had to share it with my dad. It was none of his business. Some young women would rather undergo an unsafe and illegal abortion than tell one or both of their parents. Some men just cannot get this. And yet it's this paternalistic attitude that just makes going to your father that much harder.

Second, please stop spreading anti abortion propaganda that abortions are medically dangerous and cause lasting physical damage. That is simply false. If the procedure is done by a qualified and properly trained doctor (actually it probably doesn't even take a physyician to properly perform it) then the rate of complications is extremely low and the mortality rate is almost zero.

I also am sick of this notion that these people are really interested in getting "child abusers." Please, this is just another anti-abortion tactic to try and stop abortions by invading the patients' privacy. They are just using this as another way to intimidate and harass young women seekign abortions. They will try any tactic in the book to get their way.

And, why do men keep talking about this? We women don't care what you think or want about abortion. It isn't your bodies. It will never truly be your problem no matter how much you try to make it about yourselves. Men can always walk out the door tomorrow and women know it. There are some issues you just have to respect and accept that women can and have to make for themselves.

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First, we are not talking about children. We are talking about a 14 year old. A 14 year old is not a child. And yes, they should be able to have what is essentially a simple medical procedure without having to tell their parents.

An abortion is unlike any other medical procedure or issue because it involves intensely personal matters. Having to notify parents may have a negative impact on a young woman's relationship with one or more of her parents for the rest of her life. That should be her decision. Of course, it would be nice if the world was all like Leave It To Beaver, but it's not. I never shared my sex life with my parents. Not ever. I would have been mortified to have had to share it with my dad. It was none of his business. Some young women would rather undergo an unsafe and illegal abortion than tell one or both of their parents. Some men just cannot get this. And yet it's this paternalistic attitude that just makes going to your father that much harder.

Second, please stop spreading anti abortion propaganda that abortions are medically dangerous and cause lasting physical damage. That is simply false. If the procedure is done by a qualified and properly trained doctor (actually it probably doesn't even take a physyician to properly perform it) then the rate of complications is extremely low and the mortality rate is almost zero.

I also am sick of this notion that these people are really interested in getting "child abusers." Please, this is just another anti-abortion tactic to try and stop abortions by invading the patients' privacy. They are just using this as another way to intimidate and harass young women seekign abortions. They will try any tactic in the book to get their way.

And, why do men keep talking about this? We women don't care what you think or want about abortion. It isn't your bodies. It will never truly be your problem no matter how much you try to make it about yourselves. Men can always walk out the door tomorrow and women know it. There are some issues you just have to respect and accept that women can and have to make for themselves.

OOO K...Did you even read the thread? ;)

Below is the question.

Not to start another abortion debate,but I would like opinion's on whether clinics should conceal cases of rape/statutory rape?

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OOO K...Did you even read the thread? ;)

Below is the question.

Not to start another abortion debate,but I would like opinion's on whether clinics should conceal cases of rape/statutory rape?

There is no one size fits all policy here. One of the hardest things for a rape victim to do is come out and accuse the rapist, and not all parents are understanding of the situation.

"The abortion caused the parents great physical and emotional injury and loss, including depriving them of becoming grandparents, the suit noted.

The suit seeks unspecified monetary damages in excess of $25,000."

Am I the only person that thinks these parents are competely insane? A clinic should do what the patient wants, because parental notification laws are thinly-vield attempts to curb abortion availibility. I imagine that, satistically speaking, a 14 year old giving birth is a lot more unhealthy than a 14 year old having an abortion. The parents have turned this into an ideological issue and a cash grab, rather than a serious discussion of what is best for their daughter. Perhaps if they had quietly asked for the police to arrest the perp, maybe I would not come down so hard on them. As it stands they have humiliated their daughter for being a rape victim. They do not deserve to be grandparents.

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1 - You assume most parents would put their child above their ideology. One would hope that the case but in most pro-life home in my experience, abortion is not an option even if the daughter should want one. Personally I have a huge problem with someone who's gaurdian status expires in 2-4 years (in the case of a 14 year old) making a choice that very easily could result in 18 years of responsibility at least. One can argue parents should be told but the person pregnant should make the call.

2 - I find it interesting that the parents are now demanding to have been given the chance to make choices for their daughter. Where the hell were they when their 13 year old daughter was spending a lot of time with Johnny Rapist.....at 13 years old. Dude I couldn't go to the store without my mom freakin out and coming to look for me if I took too long at that age.

3 - Nuts cracked is a good start.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And seriously, these parents are useless. Who lets this happen to their daughter? I mean, a girl getting raped is one thing. Statutory rape resulting from an existing relationship is another. And more importantly, how disgusting is it that one of the grounds they're suing on is "being deprived of becoming grandparents?" Good God, these people should be in the cell next to the rapist.

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And more importantly, how disgusting is it that one of the grounds they're suing on is "being deprived of becoming grandparents?" Good God, these people should be in the cell next to the rapist.
I have to admit that does seem a disturbingly selfish thing to say in a situation like this.
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There is no one size fits all policy here. One of the hardest things for a rape victim to do is come out and accuse the rapist, and not all parents are understanding of the situation.

"The abortion caused the parents great physical and emotional injury and loss, including depriving them of becoming grandparents, the suit noted.

The suit seeks unspecified monetary damages in excess of $25,000."

Am I the only person that thinks these parents are competely insane? A clinic should do what the patient wants, because parental notification laws are thinly-vield attempts to curb abortion availibility. I imagine that, satistically speaking, a 14 year old giving birth is a lot more unhealthy than a 14 year old having an abortion. The parents have turned this into an ideological issue and a cash grab, rather than a serious discussion of what is best for their daughter. Perhaps if they had quietly asked for the police to arrest the perp, maybe I would not come down so hard on them. As it stands they have humiliated their daughter for being a rape victim. They do not deserve to be grandparents.

I think you are letting your pro choice stance get in the way.

Why should rape or even statutory rape NOT be reported?

Is this doing good for the victim?

Do you also favor not reporting abuse at the patients request?

The parents are responsible for getting a pervert off the streets ,a action thatmight save others being taken advantage of.

Perhaps the parents are suing because it is the only way to stop the injustice of covering up a crime,since the clinics seem to ignore law.

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I think you are letting your pro choice stance get in the way.

Why should rape or even statutory rape NOT be reported?

Is this doing good for the victim?

Do you also favor not reporting abuse at the patients request?

The parents are responsible for getting a pervert off the streets ,a action thatmight save others being taken advantage of.

Perhaps the parents are suing because it is the only way to stop the injustice of covering up a crime,since the clinics seem to ignore law.

"The abortion caused the parents great physical and emotional injury and loss, including depriving them of becoming grandparents, the suit noted.

The suit seeks unspecified monetary damages in excess of $25,000."

Ok, so would you want to have a girl report to THESE parents? And I said there was not one size fits all policy. Where is the black and white in the issue? Case-by-case.

"Why should rape or even statutory rape NOT be reported?" Every rape should be reported, but WITH THE CONSENT of the victim. I will tell you what, if you want to discuss how easy it is to report a rape, let us do so. You may be surprised that it is NOT like going to a lost and found and sheepishly saying you lost your keys. Do no be so cavalier about this, a 14 year old girl having to tell her parents she was raped and then asking for an abortion? What will they do, sue the rapist for not making them grandparents faster? Maybe sue God?

"Do you also favor not reporting abuse at the patients request?"

Too complicated an issue to have a quick yes or no answer. Generally yes, but there are limits to it. If you want to debate that, we can do so too.

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Something I feel ya'll are overlooking is the wording of a suit must show damages to have a case heard ie: the loss of a grandchild,rather than simply non-notification of parents=stronger case. There is strong evidence of clinics making a habit of not reporting such cases,and several investigations as a result.

Also ...WHERE do you find it was a relationship,or even consesual?

I agree the parents likely were iresponsible,but that is a assumption without more info.

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OOO K...Did you even read the thread? ;)

Below is the question.

Not to start another abortion debate,but I would like opinion's on whether clinics should conceal cases of rape/statutory rape?

Yes, TWA, I read the question and all the responses. This is not about concealing cases of rape/statutory rape, it is about anti-abortionists trying an end run around the right of women to get abortions and do it in privacy. They know full well that threats of publicizing their situation will keep women away from getting an abortion in a timely manner.

These anti-abortionists have already been rebuffed to some degree in the parental notification charade because there has to be an exception for those women who feel it would not be in their best interest to notify their parents. So they are trying this little tactic.

In some jurisdictions it is not statutory rape or any other crime if the participants are within a certain age - for instance if the teenagers are within 2 years of each other there is no offense. So just because a minor gets pregnant it does not necessarily follow that a crime has been committed.

This law suit is frivolous and should be thrown out. The patient was not harmed by the abortion and that should be the standard. I don't see how the parents have standing. I think at this point it's going to be very difficult to ever get the truth out of this young woman. Do we even know if she was truthful about her age to the clinic or to her boyfriend and if so at what point was she truthful to each? We really know very little about this case.

But if you want an anally strict answer: clinics are there to provide proper medical care to their patients not serve as the sex police forcing their patients to be witnesses against their will and violating their privacy in the process.

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Yes, TWA, I read the question and all the responses. This is not about concealing cases of rape/statutory rape, it is about anti-abortionists trying an end run around the right of women to get abortions and do it in privacy. They know full well that threats of publicizing their situation will keep women away from getting an abortion in a timely manner.

These anti-abortionists have already been rebuffed to some degree in the parental notification charade because there has to be an exception for those women who feel it would not be in their best interest to notify their parents. So they are trying this little tactic.

In some jurisdictions it is not statutory rape or any other crime if the participants are within a certain age - for instance if the teenagers are within 2 years of each other there is no offense. So just because a minor gets pregnant it does not necessarily follow that a crime has been committed.

This law suit is frivolous and should be thrown out. The patient was not harmed by the abortion and that should be the standard. I don't see how the parents have standing. I think at this point it's going to be very difficult to ever get the truth out of this young woman. Do we even know if she was truthful about her age to the clinic or to her boyfriend and if so at what point was she truthful to each? We really know very little about this case.

But if you want an anally strict answer: clinics are there to provide proper medical care to their patients not serve as the sex police forcing their patients to be witnesses against their will and violating their privacy in the process.

Sorry for assuming ;) but maybe you are making some assumptions too?

This was a 21 yr old with a 13yr old and a serious crime imo. and I see no reason what age the CHILD gave (if she even did)

MOST pro-lifers understand abortion in cases of rape and no one (not even a child can be forced to testify in a trial.

Don't let your zeal in protecting CHOICE get in the way of stopping a crime. :2cents:

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Found some more info.... I woud cut his nuts off and feed em to him.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/22/loc_coach22.html

Friday, October 22, 2004

Former coach gets 3 years for sex with 13-year-old

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Sharon Coolidge

Enquirer staff writer

John Haller, 22, appears for sentencing Thursday. At left is his lawyer, R. Scott Croswell. Haller was sentenced to three years in prison for a sexual relationship with a young player on a team he coached.

The Enquirer/GARY LANDERS

A former St. Bernard youth softball and soccer coach was sentenced to three years in prison for a sexual relationship with a 13-year-old girl on one of his teams.

Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Thomas Crush sentenced John Haller Thursday on seven counts of sexual battery, charges Haller pleaded guilty to in August.

Haller had a sexual relationship with the girl between October 2003 and April 1- in Haller's mother's home, at his adult girlfriend's home and in his car, police said. The girl got pregnant and had an abortion, Crush said during sentencing.

In the aftermath of the relationship, the girl, now 14, dropped out of school and no longer plays on sports teams, Assistant Hamilton County Prosecutor Jennifer Deering said. "Her life has been dramatically altered."

Crush also designated Haller, 22, a sexual predator, meaning he has to register his address with the sheriff's office in the county where he lives for 10 years.

"What I did was morally wrong," Haller told Crush. "...I'm so sorry. I never meant to hurt anybody."

Said Deering: "Despite his statement, there is a complete lack of remorse." He noted that a court-appointed psychologist had said Haller has a lack of insight into what he did and has rationalized his behavior.

Haller also repeatedly called the girl after he pleaded guilty, despite a court order that he stay away from her, Deering said.

E-mail scoolidge@enquirer.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Sorry for assuming ;) but maybe you are making some assumptions too?

This was a 21 yr old with a 13yr old and a serious crime imo. and I see no reason what age the CHILD gave (if she even did)

MOST pro-lifers understand abortion in cases of rape and no one (not even a child can be forced to testify in a trial.

Don't let your zeal in protecting CHOICE get in the way of stopping a crime. :2cents:

I guess my point, TWA, was that the clinic would not necessarily know that a crime was committed. What if she was a mature looking 13 year old? What if she had told her boyfriend that she was of age for consensual sexual relations(and depending on the jurisdiction it could be 15 or 16 or 17 or whatever) or the subject never came up - this happens all the time. Guys rarely, if ever, card their sexual partners. What if she found out she was pregnant and they or she decided she would get an abortion but she thinks she'll have a hard time getting one at the clinic because of her real age which she now confesses to her boyfriend.

So now they go to the clinic and lie about her age? about her family situation? about his relationship to her? How is the clinic to know?

It's not so easy to spot a crime. And that really shouldn't be what the clinic has to concern itself with.

And I guess on a personal note, I am never that concerned about teen age girls having what is considered "statutory rape" sex if it's consensual. I mean really, I was 15 many, many moons ago and the thought that my poor 18 year old boyfriend could have gone to jail for some ridiculous time for consensual (and quite great) sex is the real crime. And believe me when I say it was completely consensual and I was perfectly capable of making the decision to have sex or not. To this day some of my fondest memories. But I digress.

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