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Gibbs Playcalling In The 80's


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I tried to ask the question in another thread but I think it got lost in the shuffle of everyone trying to beat up Die Hard :D So here it goes....

Since this thread has referred to the play calling as one of the issues. Let me ask the guys who've been around in our glory days a question about offensive playcalling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gibbs back in the day have a almost 3-4 new plays every game?? I remember watching as a kid and saying, i've never seen that before.. that was cool. Am I right about this?

The reason I bring this up because I don't see that anymore with Gibbs. Once in a while we see something but it was very constant back in the 80's and 90's that he'd have about 3 or 4 new plays that the other team hasn't seen before. It just seems we are running the same set of plays with a few sprinkled in every 2 to 3 games.

Thoughts?

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I still have a lot of 80s games on tape. I haven't watched them in a while. But I remember Coach Gibbs ran basically the same formation with maybe 30 or 40 plays from that one formation. It was the single set back formation with two TEs on the line with two WRs. I even heard once that Coach Gibbs would even draw up some plays at halftime that he'd never went over during practice and it would be effective after halftime. Remember he was the greatest coach of all time when it came to making adjustments at the half.

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I still have a lot of 80s games on tape. I haven't watched them in a while. But I remember Coach Gibbs ran basically the same formation with maybe 30 or 40 plays from that one formation. It was the single set back formation with two TEs on the line with two WRs. I even heard once that Coach Gibbs would even draw up some plays at halftime that he'd never went over during practice and it would be effective after halftime. Remember he was the greatest coach of all time when it came to making adjustments at the half.

Anyway you can burn them to DVD's? I'd love to have that collection.

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I remember what your saying, but here is the thing, I think when you would say, "I don't remember that play" it was because it was coming out of a different formation, so I think the issue here is the lack of motion before the snap.

As a kid, I remember being mezmorized by the motion we would do, all the movement...that is completely lost, we barely move compared to then. I guess those 5 seconds made Joe completly stop doing it ...

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Look, everyone wants to bring up the 91 team. That team was an anomoly, as was the 85 bears, 72 dolphins, and this years colts team. You dont see them often. That 91 skins team was the greatest team Ive ever seen, but if you think that we can just air out bombs all day like back in the day, you are crazy. I wish we did, but its not likely. I remeber the 91 team. I dont think Ryp attempted a pass shorter than 15 yards! It was ridiculous what that team did that year. But like I said, that was a VERY rare team.

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Look, everyone wants to bring up the 91 team. That team was an anomoly, as was the 85 bears, 72 dolphins, and this years colts team. You dont see them often. That 91 skins team was the greatest team Ive ever seen, but if you think that we can just air out bombs all day like back in the day, you are crazy. I wish we did, but its not likely. I remeber the 91 team. I dont think Ryp attempted a pass shorter than 15 yards! It was ridiculous what that team did that year. But like I said, that was a VERY rare team.

That is true, but you can still do some of the things that has made you successfull instead of re-inventing the wheel. I'm sure we could still do some more motions to create mis-matches. Maybe not to the full extent back in the day, but you can have something scaled down. Kind of like how Bugel said in his chat that they still run the counter but the play is trimmed down a bit so it can still be successful.

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Gibbs wasnt conservative in his first stint here...He went from Mike Martz like playcalling(pass happy) in his first 8 games in 1980 to a more balanced single back offense over the final 8 games of that season...Gibbs in his first stint would pass alot early in games to get the lead and rely heavily on the run in the late 3rd and 4th qrts...He wasnt ever conservative he was balanced...

Gibbs now is conservative...Run, run, pass seems to be our pattern now and our passing game is struggling as a result...We are always passing on heavy blitz downs/situations like 2nd/3rd and long...Passing on first down allows a team to pass against a base coverage and also adds a little mystery as to what a team is going to do b/c you dictate on first down where as the situation and yardage dictate what you do on 2nd and 3rd down...

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He was usually very conservative in his play calling. He only had 4 or 5 running plays (about 10 if you count both directions) but he'd constantly change the angle of attack as late as the snap of the ball by moving the H-back or other people around. He'd call games like a chess player, each play setting up the next play, trying to find what plays the opposing DC decided to give up (sometimes, he'd not find the plays you were giving him until late). If he was confident that he had you beaten, he'd get some game-reps of different plays, call things to make his next opponent think or go for the kill if he smelled blood. If the plays were being stopped but his guys were executing, he knew you were cheating to stop those plays, he'd go with something that burned you.

You're right that in '91 he'd go deep a lot. He had the personnel to do it: three WR who could get downfield, a line that would not allow sacks and one of the best deep ball passers you'll ever see.

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See, he was a mastermind at work.... why can't he do the same thing today? I mean, we didn't have world beater talent outside out O-line. Why can't he still pick opponents apart like that?

That is incorrect, Gibbs had some of the most talented teams of the day. Thing was, the talent ran top to bottom, depth was his big mantra. He had some great WR. Ryp was deadly with the deep ball (one of the best you'll ever see), Jay had a cannon and Doug had terrific touch on throwing fades. Further, a great offensive line creates more opportunities than any other element in an offense.

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I tried to ask the question in another thread but I think it got lost in the shuffle of everyone trying to beat up Die Hard :D So here it goes....

Since this thread has referred to the play calling as one of the issues. Let me ask the guys who've been around in our glory days a question about offensive playcalling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gibbs back in the day have a almost 3-4 new plays every game?? I remember watching as a kid and saying, i've never seen that before.. that was cool. Am I right about this?

The reason I bring this up because I don't see that anymore with Gibbs. Once in a while we see something but it was very constant back in the 80's and 90's that he'd have about 3 or 4 new plays that the other team hasn't seen before. It just seems we are running the same set of plays with a few sprinkled in every 2 to 3 games.

Thoughts?

With regard to the 3 or 4 new plays, ......... I seem to remember reading back then that Gibbs would deliberately try to break his own tendencies by cycling certain plays from certain formations out of the game plan if he felt too familiar with them.

At this point in time, Gibbs is hamstrung by injuries and the learning curve of a 2nd year team. There's ALOT of the play book we have not seen due to playmaking deficiencies at WR and TE (talkin Royal). And that dilutes what you have left to work with...

That's where were at today. And you know what? I really hate that quick square out to Cooley on 3rd and 2 that Gibbs calls alot. Not because it hasn't worked in weeks but because everytime I see it I think the back is gonna jump it and take it to the house!

But, ..... today Gibbs is a man of limited resource offensively. Forced to play percentages. He believes that quick square out to Cooley gives him his "best" chance to convert and he will call it again. Stay tuned.

:dallasuck

:helmet:

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He was usually very conservative in his play calling. He only had 4 or 5 running plays (about 10 if you count both directions) but he'd constantly change the angle of attack as late as the snap of the ball by moving the H-back or other people around. He'd call games like a chess player, each play setting up the next play, trying to find what plays the opposing DC decided to give up (sometimes, he'd not find the plays you were giving him until late). If he was confident that he had you beaten, he'd get some game-reps of different plays, call things to make his next opponent think or go for the kill if he smelled blood. If the plays were being stopped but his guys were executing, he knew you were cheating to stop those plays, he'd go with something that burned you.

You're right that in '91 he'd go deep a lot. He had the personnel to do it: three WR who could get downfield, a line that would not allow sacks and one of the best deep ball passers you'll ever see.

Reading this post kinda eased my mind.. ur saying that the only reason he went deep is because he had the personel to do it. From what ive seen in the past two season is gibbs bringing in character people portis moss cooley cambell. could he be gather peices for a master puzzle?? I mean we all see what this offense can do when brunell is hot, at one point the offense was ranked 2nd. but as soon as brunell fell off the offense fell flat, yea there doubling moss but i went to the eagles games and i was in the nose bleeds and i saw that the recievers were getting open MB wasnt finding them. people said portis-bailey deal was stupid but portis is starting to emerge because he's becoming CONSISTENT.

The playcalling hasn't been perfect but im convinced that its the execution from the players.

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Yes. And Brunell is limited in his field of vision for some reason. I don't know if it is a timing thing, or what but he has receivers open, but does not go to them. Unless he is just faking out the league, and he turns on all cylinders these last few games.

He looked good there for 3 or 4 games...

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We did try a reverse (fake) to Brown, and an inside handoff to Portis...both of which were executed to PERFECTION...

But seriously, where are all those plays he was keeping secret, only to BUST OUT during the season? And I'm sorry, but our hurry-up offense ain't got no hurry-up. Brunell looked like he had brain damage when we tried to go hurry-up before halftime against the Cards. First he tries to call a timeout after Jacobs has gotten out of bounds , then when we DO need a timeout he gets up to the line, messes up spiking it...and then throws it out of bounds. And the thing is, I bet Gibbs didn't say SCHYYYYTE!

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The 80s teams had a swagger to them while this more flexed Redskins team hasn't hit their prime yet. They will. It's just a matter of time. You can see it in the way they play hard on Sundays. I didn't get a chance to see the entire game this past Sunday but I'm a big fan of Mark Brunell.

Stats:

Year Games Cmp /Att Yds TD/Int

2005 13 234/398 2634 16/8

Not bad. Not bad at all.

.

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I remember what your saying, but here is the thing, I think when you would say, "I don't remember that play" it was because it was coming out of a different formation, so I think the issue here is the lack of motion before the snap.

As a kid, I remember being mezmorized by the motion we would do, all the movement...that is completely lost, we barely move compared to then. I guess those 5 seconds made Joe completly stop doing it ...

As i've even heard it from Joe Gibbs mouth it was the same 6 plays from 35 different formations.and yes,i remember there was always alot of motion.:2cents:
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and no one has mentioned what was really the reason they were so tough back then.they had a reliable defense that stuffed the run and covered the pass.between that and 7 minute drives every other possession it was normal to go into the half at 17-3.we had tight ends that could block and catch(Didier,Warren).O-linemen that could pull(Jacoby,Grimm).More than one serious threat at wide reciever(Monk,Charlie Brown,Taylor or Monk,Clark,Sanders).We had Darryl,Dexter,Charles Mann,Olkewietz,Wilber.i mean,it was top to bottom.all sides of the ball.it's not the playcalling.it's the execution of it.

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i think what made and MAKES joe gibbs such a great coach is he adjusts his play calling with the current personell, that 91 team was somethin else and he did air it out every other play, but the posse was at there peak, i mean monk sanders an clark were at the top of there game gibbs knew what talent we had an rypien had a STRONG arm! but to answer your question i think he always was conservitive, i remeber as kid my brother (giant fan) busting my balls what a puss joe gibbs is and how conservitive he is

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And I'm sorry, but our hurry-up offense ain't got no hurry-up. Brunell looked like he had brain damage when we tried to go hurry-up before halftime against the Cards. First he tries to call a timeout after Jacobs has gotten out of bounds , then when we DO need a timeout he gets up to the line, messes up spiking it...and then throws it out of bounds. And the thing is, I bet Gibbs didn't say SCHYYYYTE!

What do you expect Brunell to do? You know that if he spikes it could be intercepted and run back and he is the best in the league at throwing balls out of bounds so......

He's just being safe. He's a supersmart QB. ;)

Nevermind the 2 fumbles and 3 interceptions. Those aren't Brunells fault at all. :laugh:

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